+P ammo legal concerns

kjpkt7 · February 16, 2006, 09:04 PM

Do any members not use +P ammo in their defensive gun due to concerns that if you ever had to shoot an assailant, this could possibly be used against you by a lawyer because of the extra power in this round?

Thanks

shecky · February 16, 2006, 09:11 PM

If you're that worried about being sued, you probably shouldn't be using a gun at all.

croyance · February 16, 2006, 09:14 PM

You will be sued by the criminal or their family regardless.
Could it be used against you? Sure, but I don't think it will hold.
The round is legal and used for its intended purpose. As opposed to those people who jury rigged an electrical barrier with legal parts that ended up killing.
Police sometimes use +p. If you go to a store and ask for self defense ammo, more often than not they will point to the +p stuff.

OBIWAN · February 16, 2006, 09:40 PM

I have no use for +p....

But it has nothing to do with legalities

Tom2 · February 16, 2006, 09:43 PM

Yea, you could worry about being sued. Police and anyone that carries a defensive weapon can worry about it, but you do what you gotta do, within legal limits, so hopefully you come out on top, despite the unpleasantness. Saying you don't have concern about repurcussions, like some posters, might point to a cavalier attitude and they perhaps should not use a gun for defense. In the real world it is a real problem. Unlike fictional movies and shows where you holster your gun and ride off into the sunset, never to concern yourself with the matter again! But tried by 12 versus carried by 6 has a ring of truth to it! And +P is not a problem. Police use it. Government uses it. They even use +P+ without it being a problem, if that helps! Except to wear out the guns faster.

Handy · February 17, 2006, 01:02 AM

+P is below standard pressure for European loads the guns are designed for. It isn't "extra", standard P is downloaded.

The easiest defense is that you are using a police load.

+P is going to sound much less evil than "magnum", anyway.

Ichiro · February 17, 2006, 01:33 AM

Maybe go for a .44 special. It doesn't sound intimidating at all; it just sounds cute--it's "special."

~Ichiro

Wildcard · February 17, 2006, 02:37 AM

If you ever have to use your weapon to defend you and yours, +p will be the least of your problems.

918v · February 17, 2006, 02:44 AM

The only sure way to avoid a lawsuit is to club the burglar from behind and dispose of the body yourself, in secret

CWO4USCGRET · February 17, 2006, 02:55 AM

Quote:

Do any members not use +P ammo in their defensive gun due to concerns that if you ever had to shoot an assailant, this could possibly be used against you by a lawyer because of the extra power in this round?

If I were to shoot someone, the bullet used would be the least of my concerns.

pipoman · February 17, 2006, 11:16 AM

+P is less of a problem in the scenero you present than some of the names and marketing used by the manufactures of the ammo IMHO.

Mikeyboy · February 17, 2006, 11:50 AM

While I'm not a laywer...+p round are legal, if it is available in any gun store I think you will be OK. It when you get into homemade stuff to make bullets more lethal, you would have legal problems. The only example I can think of is if you remember the Jaws movies (I can't remember if it was the first or the second one) the poilce chief puts poison in the hollowpoints of his revolver rounds (like a pinch of rat poison will make a .38 round more effective against a Great White Shark

) now that might be illegal and if caught shooting a BG in your home with one of those rounds, regardless of what the BG did, it will open you up to criminal and civil charges.

Musketeer · February 17, 2006, 12:08 PM

It is good to think legally about the civil concerns after a shooting. For that reason I wouldn't use my handloads for self defense unless we were in aome sort of nightmare civil uprising where I had gone through all my normal defensive rounds. At that point nobody would care.

A good solution, assuming you are using a common caliber, would be to find out what some major police departments use. My 9mm uses the exact same round as the NYPD. The 9mm +P 124 Grain Gold Dot. The NYPD is the most legally gun shy department in the nation that I know of and held out on keeping the 38 lead round nose later than almost anyone else.

As long as you stick with something over the counter and avoid the gimmick rounds like EXTREME SHOCK (read HYPE and they suck anyways), try top refrain from filling your book rack with boks titled "How To Kill", and avoid hanging life like targets aroundd your living room that you have shot the genitalia and heads off of you should be as coverred as the next legitimate citizen after a legal shooting. You may still get sued but your exposure is no worse for having used a +P round.

Person of Interest · February 17, 2006, 12:32 PM

There's always the possiblility of civil or even criminal action following a defensive shooting and some experts warn against handloads for this reason. A good attorney will try to make an issue of anything he or she can in trying to sway a jury. But I have never heard of any factory ammo being an issue.

I carry very hot handloads, myself, because where I live juries don't reward violent criminals and local cops and prosecutors don't hassle law-abiding gun owners.

**Glenn E. Meyer** · February 17, 2006, 12:39 PM

If the shoot is not good or you have a crappy lawyer - then the jury might be influenced by someone bringing up the round types.

In jury simulation studies, weapons issues have had a negative impact on juries. Bullet type has not been tested to my knowledge.

Your best defense is too really know when to shoot and if you do go to trial, get a lawyer and experts really cognizant of these issues to short circuit or give a reasonable counter argument to any prosecutorial shennigans.

TX_RGR · February 17, 2006, 12:46 PM

The whole "don't use +P you'll be sued" thing is a myth. It is circualted by the same people who believe in "energy transfer" and "knock down power" in handguns. Often thrown in with this wive's tale is a cautionary statement about what type of gun you should be afraid to own and use, as well as how many shots you should feel comfortable firing. Someone please show me a case where someone within their rights lost a lawsuit because they used the infamous "exploding bullets" or some such thing.

In Texas, you may empty 20 rounds of exploding extra lethal cop-killing bone sawing ultra dangerous bullets into your attacker fired from your 23" "Devastator" Handgun in murder magnum caliber and no one will even blink.

AirForceShooter · February 17, 2006, 12:48 PM

the concern of a lawsuit does not influence what I stuff in my guns.

That is all.

AFS

atlctyslkr · March 16, 2006, 09:24 PM

Every time I've had to tell a cop I've had a concealed firearm I haven't heard "You really shouldn't be carrying +p or magnum rounds!" They were like "cool gun, great job concealing it, thanks for knowing the law and informing me, have a nice day" some wouldn't shut up!

Big Calhoun · March 16, 2006, 10:47 PM

+1 2 3 and 4 with the thoughts of 'who cares what the round is!'

It's legal and as far as I'm personally concerned, if you cross the threshhold of my home to do me harm, you deserve what's coming to you. Let the lawyers worry about the other stuff.

TheGunShack · March 16, 2006, 11:03 PM

I've know those who carry .38+P in their .357MAG. Think that'd be a problem?

February 16, 2006, 09:04 PM	#1
kjpkt7 Member Join Date: June 8, 2005 Posts: 18	+P ammo legal concerns Do any members not use +P ammo in their defensive gun due to concerns that if you ever had to shoot an assailant, this could possibly be used against you by a lawyer because of the extra power in this round? Thanks

February 17, 2006, 12:39 PM	#15
Glenn E. Meyer Staff Join Date: November 17, 2000 Posts: 13,307	If the shoot is not good or you have a crappy lawyer - then the jury might be influenced by someone bringing up the round types. In jury simulation studies, weapons issues have had a negative impact on juries. Bullet type has not been tested to my knowledge. Your best defense is too really know when to shoot and if you do go to trial, get a lawyer and experts really cognizant of these issues to short circuit or give a reasonable counter argument to any prosecutorial shennigans. __________________ NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. http://www.teddytactical.com/archive...05_Feature.htm Being an Academic Shooter http://www.teddytactical.com/archive...11_Feature.htm Being an Active Shooter

February 17, 2006, 12:46 PM	#16
TX_RGR Senior Member Join Date: September 29, 2004 Posts: 485	The whole "don't use +P you'll be sued" thing is a myth. It is circualted by the same people who believe in "energy transfer" and "knock down power" in handguns. Often thrown in with this wive's tale is a cautionary statement about what type of gun you should be afraid to own and use, as well as how many shots you should feel comfortable firing. Someone please show me a case where someone within their rights lost a lawsuit because they used the infamous "exploding bullets" or some such thing. In Texas, you may empty 20 rounds of exploding extra lethal cop-killing bone sawing ultra dangerous bullets into your attacker fired from your 23" "Devastator" Handgun in murder magnum caliber and no one will even blink. __________________ Someone just hit me with a snow ball; and I can see the guy who threw it.--Phil Simms, AFC Divisional Playoff, January 19, 2002, Pats/Raiders (The infamous "tuck rule" game)

March 16, 2006, 11:03 PM	#20
TheGunShack Member Join Date: March 3, 2006 Location: Tennessee Posts: 54	I've know those who carry .38+P in their .357MAG. Think that'd be a problem? __________________ USAF Retired NRA Patron Member NRA Golden Eagle "But as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD." Joshua 24:15b

February 16, 2006, 09:11 PM	#2
shecky Member Join Date: June 5, 2005 Posts: 72	If you're that worried about being sued, you probably shouldn't be using a gun at all.

February 16, 2006, 09:14 PM	#3
croyance Senior Member Join Date: March 30, 2001 Posts: 3,604	You will be sued by the criminal or their family regardless. Could it be used against you? Sure, but I don't think it will hold. The round is legal and used for its intended purpose. As opposed to those people who jury rigged an electrical barrier with legal parts that ended up killing. Police sometimes use +p. If you go to a store and ask for self defense ammo, more often than not they will point to the +p stuff.

February 16, 2006, 09:40 PM	#4
OBIWAN Senior Member Join Date: March 16, 1999 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,342	I have no use for +p.... But it has nothing to do with legalities

February 16, 2006, 09:43 PM	#5
Tom2 Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2004 Location: Ohio Posts: 5,644	Yea, you could worry about being sued. Police and anyone that carries a defensive weapon can worry about it, but you do what you gotta do, within legal limits, so hopefully you come out on top, despite the unpleasantness. Saying you don't have concern about repurcussions, like some posters, might point to a cavalier attitude and they perhaps should not use a gun for defense. In the real world it is a real problem. Unlike fictional movies and shows where you holster your gun and ride off into the sunset, never to concern yourself with the matter again! But tried by 12 versus carried by 6 has a ring of truth to it! And +P is not a problem. Police use it. Government uses it. They even use +P+ without it being a problem, if that helps! Except to wear out the guns faster.

February 17, 2006, 01:02 AM	#6
Handy Junior member Join Date: August 31, 2001 Posts: 8,785	+P is below standard pressure for European loads the guns are designed for. It isn't "extra", standard P is downloaded. The easiest defense is that you are using a police load. +P is going to sound much less evil than "magnum", anyway.

February 17, 2006, 01:33 AM	#7
Ichiro Senior Member Join Date: July 16, 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 887	Maybe go for a .44 special. It doesn't sound intimidating at all; it just sounds cute--it's "special." ~Ichiro

February 17, 2006, 02:37 AM	#8
Wildcard Junior member Join Date: February 11, 2001 Location: midwest Posts: 782	If you ever have to use your weapon to defend you and yours, +p will be the least of your problems.

February 17, 2006, 02:44 AM	#9
918v Junior member Join Date: September 25, 2005 Posts: 1,372	The only sure way to avoid a lawsuit is to club the burglar from behind and dispose of the body yourself, in secret

February 17, 2006, 11:16 AM	#11
pipoman Senior Member Join Date: November 8, 2005 Posts: 897	+P is less of a problem in the scenero you present than some of the names and marketing used by the manufactures of the ammo IMHO.

February 17, 2006, 11:50 AM	#12
Mikeyboy Senior Member Join Date: October 31, 2005 Posts: 1,231	While I'm not a laywer...+p round are legal, if it is available in any gun store I think you will be OK. It when you get into homemade stuff to make bullets more lethal, you would have legal problems. The only example I can think of is if you remember the Jaws movies (I can't remember if it was the first or the second one) the poilce chief puts poison in the hollowpoints of his revolver rounds (like a pinch of rat poison will make a .38 round more effective against a Great White Shark ) now that might be illegal and if caught shooting a BG in your home with one of those rounds, regardless of what the BG did, it will open you up to criminal and civil charges.

February 17, 2006, 12:08 PM	#13
Musketeer Senior Member Join Date: September 12, 2005 Posts: 3,725	It is good to think legally about the civil concerns after a shooting. For that reason I wouldn't use my handloads for self defense unless we were in aome sort of nightmare civil uprising where I had gone through all my normal defensive rounds. At that point nobody would care. A good solution, assuming you are using a common caliber, would be to find out what some major police departments use. My 9mm uses the exact same round as the NYPD. The 9mm +P 124 Grain Gold Dot. The NYPD is the most legally gun shy department in the nation that I know of and held out on keeping the 38 lead round nose later than almost anyone else. As long as you stick with something over the counter and avoid the gimmick rounds like EXTREME SHOCK (read HYPE and they suck anyways), try top refrain from filling your book rack with boks titled "How To Kill", and avoid hanging life like targets aroundd your living room that you have shot the genitalia and heads off of you should be as coverred as the next legitimate citizen after a legal shooting. You may still get sued but your exposure is no worse for having used a +P round.

February 17, 2006, 12:32 PM	#14
Person of Interest Senior Member Join Date: March 5, 2005 Posts: 365	There's always the possiblility of civil or even criminal action following a defensive shooting and some experts warn against handloads for this reason. A good attorney will try to make an issue of anything he or she can in trying to sway a jury. But I have never heard of any factory ammo being an issue. I carry very hot handloads, myself, because where I live juries don't reward violent criminals and local cops and prosecutors don't hassle law-abiding gun owners.

February 17, 2006, 12:48 PM	#17
AirForceShooter Senior Member Join Date: December 21, 2005 Location: Sarasota (sort of) Florida Posts: 1,185	the concern of a lawsuit does not influence what I stuff in my guns. That is all. AFS

March 16, 2006, 09:24 PM	#18
atlctyslkr Senior Member Join Date: March 6, 2006 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 613	Every time I've had to tell a cop I've had a concealed firearm I haven't heard "You really shouldn't be carrying +p or magnum rounds!" They were like "cool gun, great job concealing it, thanks for knowing the law and informing me, have a nice day" some wouldn't shut up!

March 16, 2006, 10:47 PM	#19
Big Calhoun Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2006 Posts: 213	+1 2 3 and 4 with the thoughts of 'who cares what the round is!' It's legal and as far as I'm personally concerned, if you cross the threshhold of my home to do me harm, you deserve what's coming to you. Let the lawyers worry about the other stuff.