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View Poll Results: Do you think there should be some kind of hunting education / training?
Yes 46 80.70%
No 11 19.30%
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Old February 13, 2006, 06:33 PM   #1
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VP shoots hunter

Do you think there should be some kind of hunting education and/or training?
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Old February 13, 2006, 06:36 PM   #2
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Are you asking if we should have a European style proficiency test?
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Old February 13, 2006, 06:48 PM   #3
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The Big Shots (is that a pun?) would be exempt from such education.

On another side, there was another NYPD rookie killed and I think it was a shooting but not positive.

Between the recent NYC Cops and the VP, we better hang on to our asses as we are about to be blasted again by the Anti's..... who have all the right answers... as we all know!

No Guns - No Guns - NONE! Take them away from them. No Guns!!!

Ms. priss Hillary and Uncle Shoomie will have a field day with this one!
BANG------------ >>> !
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Old February 13, 2006, 06:48 PM   #4
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PA has mandatory hunter education for first time licensees. In looking for hunting excursions in different states, several require proof of passing hunter education in your home state to acquire a license.
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Old February 13, 2006, 07:18 PM   #5
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Personally I don't see the point in taking hunter education, I mean all you have to do is practice firearm safety right?

I might be quoted a few times for this.
"The only purpose for a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you never should have laid down."

"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people and I expect the same from them." -John Wayne
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Old February 13, 2006, 07:43 PM   #6
roy reali
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I think that there ought to be some sort of shooting requirement connected with a license issue. I do not mean anything that would take an expert marksman to pull off, but something that shows some basic gun handling ability.

Here in California they have a handgun handling quiz a purchaser must accomplish. basically, you have demonstrate to the gun dealer that you know how to safely handle the handgun you are buying. You have to open the cylinder or remove the magazine. You have show how to determine if the gun is unloaded. You have to point out any safety devices too.

As goofy as this may sound, it almost makes sense, at least by California standards.
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Old February 13, 2006, 07:51 PM   #7
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Not really sure.....

does anybody know for sure???Maybe Cheney had some type of training??? Who knows....all the education and training in the world isn't going to stop a guy from getting excited once in awhile hunting and just plain screwing up. Did he aim to do it or was it an accident? With every accident do we all have too dream up some more paper and bulls#$% to wade through?? Sometimes sh55 happens ...people need to let it go!!
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Old February 13, 2006, 08:17 PM   #8
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Who cares anyway. If it wouldnt have been the VP, we would have never heard about it. Accidents involving guns happen every day.
"Certainly there is no hunting like the hunting of man and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never really care for anything else thereafter."
-Ernest Hemingway, "On the Blue Water," Esquire, April 1936
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Old February 13, 2006, 08:43 PM   #9
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The news said tonight that all the hunters were walking in a straight line, and the guy left the line to retrieve a bird. This they claim was against the ranch rules for hunting. Cheney swings the gun up to nail a bird and there's a guy standing where he shouldn't be standing. It's a hard thing to call. Yes he should have been looking, but how are we supposed to look where the barrel swing goes while still keeping an eye on the bird?
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Old February 13, 2006, 10:07 PM   #10
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It's called oops.

Some facts that could help see why it may have happened:

1. Two people had just arrived in a vehicle.

2. The VP wears eye glasses, so if he is like most people with glasses then he poor peripheral vision. So if he was looking at the bird the hunter looked like a blob at best.

3. What was the lay of the land? If the other hunter was coming over a small hill he would not have been seen.

4. Was it windy? I have had my vision blurred by a sudden blast of wind, and I know I would still try to make the shot work even if I could not see very well.

5. A large number of birds did jump. I know that I would be working on getting as many down as I could, and the brain in hunting mode seems to scoff at safety when it sees game.

Anyway it's not like he killed the guy. Just "knocked him silly".
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Old February 13, 2006, 11:10 PM   #11
Art Eatman
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FWIW, cheney apparently has done a good bit of shotgunning. There was a bunch of left-wing fussing about his getting flown to SW Louisiana for a duck-hunting trip a year or two ago. You want a visit from the VP? Offer him some good bird-hunting.

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Old February 13, 2006, 11:16 PM   #12
trigger happy
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there are alot of states where you have to attend a hunter safety course before you can get a hunting license..some people just get "buck fever" no matter what game they hunt
"You cannot invade mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind each blade of grass" Admiral Yamamoto
"You have enemies ? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life" Winston Churchill
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Old February 14, 2006, 12:09 AM   #13
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Not hunting class

I think there should be gun handling classes and maybe shoot not shoot lessions
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Old February 14, 2006, 08:43 AM   #14
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Colorado requires hunter safety with a date of birth like 1939 or something really covers most all. I am old enough to remember when 10 or 15 hunters a year bought the farm in the deer firearms seasons. Hunter safety classes for new hunters and hunter orange solved alot of problems. I would recommend that everyone take a refresher class now and again. You may learn something or you may be an asset to the class with you experience. You may even decide to get certified to teach a class.

As far as the VP shooting a lawyer, it was not exactly a shoot out. The guy took a load from a 28 ga. 7 1/2 or 8 shot probably. I do not know why he went to the ICU, you or I would have poured some whiskey on and in and popped the shot out and gone on.

I am fasinated by the media making a big stink over it. A couple of old, rich, powerful Republicans launched and caught some shot. It was an accident that only made news because of who they are. If you were involved would you call AP and say a whacked this dude while hunting? More non-news cluttering up the air ways.
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Old February 14, 2006, 09:03 AM   #15
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It has been my experience that most states require hunters education. I helped teach the course for a couple of years when it was first started in Alabama and there is a session on fire arms safety.
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Old February 14, 2006, 10:36 AM   #16
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Yes hunter education is a requirement in Ga and should be in every state.

I agree with Youp, more non-news for the talking heads on TV. A 24 hour news network has to find something to blabber about.
It was a bad thing to happen, but it was a minor accident.
What was the actual distance?
Was he over a rise and caught falling shot?
He was away from the main body, why didn't he announce that he was rejoining?
Why didn't he come back from behind the group?
Just a few questions I am sure the news will never let us know.
But once again, it is a non-news event anyway.

The news folks complaining about not knowing about it as soon as it happened is what gets me.
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Old February 14, 2006, 11:56 AM   #17
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Its hard to even call him a hunter. They get out their car, and they release the caged animals and then he annihilates 70 or 80 of them in a session for the helluva of it, while the handlers do the work for them. No one could even really call what they are doing hunting.
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Old February 14, 2006, 02:11 PM   #18
Wild Bill Bucks
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There has to be a good LAWYER joke in here somewhere !

Most states already have adequate hunter safety courses in place, but they will never be able to compare with some good old fashion common sense.

Everyone who hunts knows,RULE #1, is watch everyone at all times in the field, and don't put yourself in harms way. Although it is difficult to do all the time, it is up to each of us to watch his own BUTT.
Even with the best hunters there will be accidents, just like with any other sport.
Given the amount of hunters in the field on any given year, I would stack the mishaps up against any other sport out there.

This just boils down to a bad accident on a slow news day.
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Old February 14, 2006, 05:32 PM   #19
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I think this is typical anti-gun thinking. One high profile person made a stupid mistake and everyone is pushing more gun laws. In this case, training and/or more extensive training than is currently required. This was a single incident and doesn't even deserve a front page story, much less 24/7 CNN coverage. We don't need more training requirements. We need people to get a life and worry about something actually important.
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Old February 14, 2006, 11:04 PM   #20
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This is BS. Lawyers ignore the rules.

The entire incident would be below the public radar screen if it weren't for the need to create a smokescreen to hide Al Gore's recent treasonous speech. :barf:

The only requirement for training should be a marksmanship course in high school PE, required to get a high school diploma.
In a few years when the dust finally clears and people start counting their change there is a pretty good chance that President Obama may become known as The Great Absquatulator. You heard it first here on TFL.
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Old February 15, 2006, 09:37 AM   #21
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Limeyfellow: Caged birds? I missed that, in the articles.

The Armstrong ranch is down in that King Ranch country. John B. was attorney for the KR; his son now runs the Amrstrong operation.

Hunting from a vehicle is common in "big country". You drive along to where quail are or might be. If you see a covey, folks jump out and "go play". Or, you stop and get out and then work likely cover. I've covered as many as fifty miles in a day in my area, in the back country. I've walked eight and ten miles, as well.

All the safety classes and training in the world are of no use whatsoever once you have that quail bird in line with that front sight. Nothing else exists in your vision except some blur. This is nothing new; Hemingway wrote about it, as did Ruark--and that was decades ago...

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Old February 15, 2006, 10:21 AM   #22
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ART, are you saying that "its all in the game-expect to shoot your hunting buddy if you go quail hunting."???????????
When did they stop using dogs to quail hunt in texas. WE use to ride in vehicles ok, but we were folloing dogs and when they pointed we got out and shot the birds. Never did shoot each other.
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Old February 15, 2006, 12:49 PM   #23
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It was an accident folks. Get real.
Don't blame me, I voted for Cthulhu
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Old February 15, 2006, 04:33 PM   #24
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the guy might die

I'm not a bird hunter but I always thought you would observe the 180 rule at least. It seems the VP turned almost all the way around and shot. Is that usual for bird hunting? I don't want to pre-judge the man, but some details would ease my mind.

The bottom line is that here is a guy who holds our lives in his hands and it appears he may be a reckless person with potentially fatal results.

I wouldn't say, "oh come on, its no big deal," when the man might die.

Also he didn't just "wing" the guy. They took 200 pellets out of his face, neck and chest. He had a heart attack this am due to a pellet in his heart.

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Old February 15, 2006, 05:03 PM   #25
Art Eatman
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Y'know, you really gotta be reaching to come up with "expect to shoot your hunting buddy". The deal is that any time a group is hunting, you work to AVOID shooting your hunting buddy. And remember, it's mutual responsibility for all concerned.

That said, and remembering that all we have to go by is the news reports, Whittington had made himself not part of the group. What he thought Cheny was doing or was gonna do is not what Cheney did. And vice versa. They both lost "situational awareness". Shooter and shootee both screwed up.

As near as I can tell, Cheney *assumed* Whittington was back by the car, or well behind him, or some such. Whittington *assumed* he'd catch up with Cheney before Cheney found any more birds.

I don't mean to make light of it; it's tragic. No doubt. But, accidents DO happen.

I'd rather try to figure out what real-world lessons can be learned, rather than go playing the blame-game.

To me, it reinforces the bit about situational awareness, and the need for all parties in a hunt to make sure they know where the others are, or which way they're headed.

Ever seen or shot Sporting Clays? Where they have limit stakes to control your shooting angles? When hunting with a group, you MUST never lose the imaginary location of those limit stakes. That way, you don't swing toward a partner who maybe got a few steps ahead. If a bird gets outside your limit, stop. Courtesy sez holler, "Your bird!" or some such agreed upon deal. But you have to think about it, and make it a reflex.

But like the song sez, "Hindsight's 20-20..." and it does no good unless you think about it ahead of time and go over the rules when you get with a group.

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