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Old February 15, 2006, 12:44 AM   #51
CobrayCommando
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On a large boar they can have as much as three inches of hardened cartilage plate over the entire thoracic region. This plate is so thick and hard on SOME hogs that I've seen them totally expand the best premium bullets from heavy caliber rifle before the bullet even gets through the "shield".

While I've never had a large caliber bullet stopped in the on side shield I've seen them stop bullet on the off side many times. I've seen them stop .375H&H's shooting Nosler 300gr PT's,Barnes X, and Swift A-frames. I've seen them stop various 250gr .338's and more often than not they'll stop a .30cal bullets of any dimension.
Fascinating, thanks for the reply. So in fact if one were to go hunting in areas where encountering one of these beasts was possible it would be wise to load a few solids in the rifle, and if you happen to not see one and shoot a smaller animal just load a softy on top of those to shoot it? I wouldn't want to stumble on one of these things at 5 yards only to find out I had a hot loaded softpoint in my gun that would blow itself apart in a few inches of cartilage.
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Old February 15, 2006, 09:15 AM   #52
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FROM PREVIOUS POST Quote:
by H&HHunter: A hog's brain lays behind the eyes. Also a hogs skull is flat. So if he is facing you and you shoot him in "lump" above his eyes that is nothing more than muscle and fat it will often knock out a pig for a while

.

Man, I don;t know what kind of hogs you have been shooting but here is a couple pictures of the skull of a 360# boar. Note that the brain cavity is above and behind the eye sockets. Also, there is nothing covering the bone in this area except the skin and hair. A shot between the nostrils would probaly travel through his mouth and hit the spinal cord having the same affect as a brain shot.

I have seen many large hogs killed with a single shot from a .22, even with shorts. Admittedly the .22 is not the desired weapon for serios hog hunting. A good 30 caliber is what you need.

WILL TRY THE PICS AGAIN
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Old February 15, 2006, 09:57 AM   #53
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Sheesh! Look, guys, there just ain't no "one size fits all" in hunting anything! Believe me!

Sure, if you have the time to get the proper angle for a shot on a hog that's just standing around, you can kill him with a pipsquesk cartridge. That doesn't prove anything.

Out in the field, you don't know if you'll see a quiescent hog at some distance, and you can plan your shot, taking your time. Or, you might come around a bush and at some five yards find 300 pounds of Irate Bacon. No way to know ahead of time.

What I think H&H is trying to say is that you gotta figure on being able to deal with worst-case conditions. So, penetration of heavy bone and gristle is a major factor. A broken-down animal is less of a threat to your own precious body.

Then again, like a buddy of mine did, you shoot the silly hog with a .357 and have an impressive set of three-inch tusks in the head on your office wall.

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Old February 15, 2006, 12:49 PM   #54
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I'm from a different region. (Kalifornistan) How big to Javelina get? Are they found only in Tex, or are they in AZ and NM too? I would like to hunt em, are they different from pigs in HW? I have hunted pigs in Hawaii and boy, do those Hawaiians know how to cook pig!
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Old February 15, 2006, 02:37 PM   #55
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Loggerhead,

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Man, I don;t know what kind of hogs you have been shooting

Answer,

Wild boars with a LOT of euro genetics.

That skull in your picture looks like it came from a very recently domestic hog. In fact it looks a lot like a Duroc skull which is characterized by a short tall skull.

Some characteristics which define a wild boar are. Short round ears never floppy like on a farm pig. A longer head. A tall narrow chest with thin relatively light hindquarters.

Coloration is black to golden brown with a distinctive "Razor" along the top of the back from the neck to the mid body.

We do get a lot of hogs who have tons of wild boar genes that do not make the color. We have quite a few white spotted hogs which have all the other wild characteristics.

Every once in a while we'll shoot a nearly pure feral Duroc or Hampshire but it's pretty rare on our place. We even once shot a huge Pot belly/wild boar cross. Talk about a weird looking pig.

So I guess what Art said is even more salient. It is not possible to make a definitive statement when it comes to animals and huinting in general.

Here are some pics of an almost pure wild boar skull. He was about 200lbs.

Here is an example of what I was refering to on brain placement. Behind and slightly below the top of the eye.


Here is an example of my statement that wild hogs have a flat skull which can deflect bullets.


Here is a view of how a hog would hold his head in a natural position. I think it is clear how one could imagine a possibility of a deflection from this angle. Also notice the "point" at the back and top of the skull. That is the Ocipital point and is nothing more than solid bone the brain lies in the bulge right behind the eyes. The pointy tip of the skull is often what is hit which merely knocks a hog out. Which is exactly what can happen if you shoot a facing boar above the eyes.


I think this also can explain how difficult it can be to make a succesfull head shot on a hog under field conditions with a pistol.

Greg
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Old February 15, 2006, 03:01 PM   #56
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Cobray.
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Fascinating, thanks for the reply. So in fact if one were to go hunting in areas where encountering one of these beasts was possible it would be wise to load a few solids in the rifle, and if you happen to not see one and shoot a smaller animal just load a softy on top of those to shoot it?
In fact I can't tell you how many times I've found a healed over bullet wounds in a big hogs shield. Most of the time when you find an old scared up bullet divit It'll have green coroded jacket material splatered around in it. The suspect bullets usually look like the remiains of a high velocity .22 or a 6mm or some such light weight high velocity varmint round.

So to answer your question I don't know that a solid is neccesary but a good well built bullet such as a Barnes or a Nosler would be prudent if you are shooting a hotrod light bullet.

Now I don't want any misunderstanding about this The bullets I mentioned were expanded when they got through the shield but they weren't expended. they still got into the goods and did their stuff.
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Old February 15, 2006, 03:33 PM   #57
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Ok that cleared up my confusion, so basically as long as a medium bore cartridge is used with a decent expanding bullet it should be fine.

Thanks for coming into this thread and sharing your experience with us!
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Old February 15, 2006, 04:48 PM   #58
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H&H, the skull I showed is that of a European Boar, about as pure bred as one can find in this area. Most of the "wild" hogs in this part of the country are either European or Feral and mostly Feral. The russians seem to disappear. I also have the skull of a russian that has the same configuration of the fore head. I have observed that when a hog walks or ambels along he does it with his nose down at about a 45 degree angle to his body but when he runs he runs with the nose up, and almost on a level with his body.

Nice skull you got there, looks like the tusk might have been pulled out a little.
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Old February 15, 2006, 05:07 PM   #59
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Quote:
as long as a medium bore cartridge is used with a decent expanding bullet it should be fine
Yup....so long as you're referring to a medium bore rifle cartridge.

Quote:
looks like the tusk might have been pulled out a little
Actually, those teeth look just about right for that head. Nice skull Greg.
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Old February 15, 2006, 06:16 PM   #60
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Cobray,

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Ok that cleared up my confusion, so basically as long as a medium bore cartridge is used with a decent expanding bullet it should be fine.

Thanks for coming into this thread and sharing your experience with us!
Yep that's it in a nut shell.

And

You are welcome I do hope that my posts are informative rather than incendiary.


Loggerhead,

I think you may be right on the tooth thing. I probably pulled that bottom one out at one time to show somebody and once you do that they'll never go all the way back in without cracking something. I have shot some euro crosses with muchmore bone sticking out than that though. I've posted this before but here is one of my better ones as far as teeth go he's got nearly 4 inches of tusk on each side out the bottom his tops were both worn off which explains his long bottoms.

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Old February 15, 2006, 06:34 PM   #61
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Smoke,

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I'm from a different region. (Kalifornistan) How big to Javelina get? Are they found only in Tex, or are they in AZ and NM too? I would like to hunt em, are they different from pigs in HW? I have hunted pigs in Hawaii and boy, do those Hawaiians know how to cook pig!
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Javalinas get to be 50Lbs or so 65Lbs is a giant.

They are found in Az, NM, Tx, Mexico Central and South America. Am I missing anywhere?

I agree Hawaiians are some of the best hog cookers on the planet. I was in Heialea, Maui a couple of years ago and had some Kahalua pork. WOW awesome stuff!!
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Old February 15, 2006, 07:56 PM   #62
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Yup....so long as you're referring to a medium bore rifle cartridge.
WHAT! You mean I shouldn't hunt 350 pound boar with my 7.65mm Parabellum?


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Old February 15, 2006, 09:41 PM   #63
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Hunter, that is one big assed hog. I would like to have caught that sucker and tied him up-brought his ass out alive--what an adrenaline rush that would have been.

I will post a couple of pic of some pretty biguns tied up tomorrow.
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Old February 15, 2006, 10:03 PM   #64
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This one's starting to go WAY off topic.

Logger-
Make certain the trophies you come back with were taken by you.....and, perhaps a handgun in cal .45 Auto or less.

Trophies of hogs taken by three or a dozen dogs would not, I think, be comparable.
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Old February 16, 2006, 08:17 AM   #65
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Rich, are you implying that it might be more "sporting" to shoot a hog with a high powered weapon at long range than it would be to have a pack of dogs bay the hog and then go in and take him down with the bare hands, and tie him up? If so then it becomes obvious you have never done it.

You are right, however, about the direction of the thread so-since I am of the "catching" group I am out of here.
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Old February 16, 2006, 10:37 AM   #66
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If somebody has unanswered question, how about start a new thread, okay? This one has more than run its course...

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