The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Art of the Rifle: General

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old February 21, 2010, 10:16 PM   #526
HUBEL458
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 8, 2000
Posts: 594
We talk about liking the use of heavier slug barrels
in using our slow powder and handling recoil better.
Guy out west has this heavy muzzled, Hastings, rifled
barrel, for his REM 870. In first pic is a comparison to the
original 870 barrel. It shows a muzzle as heavy as on
a NEF Ultra Slug GUN. 2nd picture is the gun itself.
That makes a neat slug gun..Ed



__________________
ED HUBEL
HUBEL458 is offline  
Old February 22, 2010, 12:06 PM   #527
K8vf
Member
 
Join Date: January 16, 2010
Location: Iosco county Michigan
Posts: 39
Slug Gun

Did you try cutting the case down at the shoulder to see what velocities you would get without having to expand the necks?

I havent read all of the posts, sorry if this was asked,heck there are so many.....

I am not a reloader, just wondered if that was also feasable, or if it didnt improve much over a 3"


Thanks for your hard work.

Makes me want to shoot my High Standard Bolt 12GA.

mark
K8vf is offline  
Old February 24, 2010, 01:25 PM   #528
HUBEL458
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 8, 2000
Posts: 594
We have used cases we put rims on and the RMC brass cases,
cut back to 3"- 2.75"- 2.5" and velocity goes down
accordingly. Some guys have bought 3" RMC cases and used them
in NEF Ultras, and Savage 210s. with good results comparable
to 3.5" plastic case loads. Magtech makes a 2.5" brass case that
guys like to use in older guns and 2 3/4" guns.Long case advantage
is greater velocity at low pressures as there is more room
for cushion wads as well as more powder.Ed
__________________
ED HUBEL
HUBEL458 is offline  
Old February 27, 2010, 11:54 PM   #529
HUBEL458
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 8, 2000
Posts: 594
The heavy rifled barrel in previous post was made by
Hastings for the Remington 870. It is 26" long and a
muzzle diameter of over an inch. Hastings is gone now,
but we'd like to find some of these barrels. The Hastings
number of the barrel is 560H90.

In the meantime Remington has come out with their
SPS Super Magnum Slug Gun with 25.5" rifled barrel and
a 1" diameter muzzle, with more solid barrel, and extra
pins in mounting barrel, so a scope can be put on action. Ed

__________________
ED HUBEL
HUBEL458 is offline  
Old March 2, 2010, 12:37 PM   #530
Cheepshooter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: March 2, 2010
Posts: 1
Ed,

I registered on this forum just now specifically to ask you a couple questions.

I've read all the posts on all of the forums I could find where you were talking about the 12FH, 499HE, 700HE, etc. I have to say that I'm almost more impressed with your ability to post your developments across such a wide range of forums for so long than with the actual development. That is saying a lot since I'm thoroughly impressed with your developments.

So here are the questions:

1) I talked to E.R. Shaw about their 12 and 20 gauge barrels. They only offer uncontoured blanks, but the price is great. I think you used one on your Savage 210. Was the outside concentric enough with the bore that you didn't have to turn it down any? If I could leave it heavy and just thread it, that would be ideal for me.

2) I am waiting on written clarification from the ATF, but since you've been through this with the 700HE, you may know the answer. My intention is to build a cartridge using a .500 Jeffery or .505 Gibbs case blown out straight to hold a .615-.620 dia (20 gauge) projectile. Since this isn't a shotgun round, I'll need to get a DD exemption from the ATF. No problem. Once I'm done, I intend to build a rifle on a Mauser style action using a Shaw 20 gauge rifled allow barrel. What I'll end up with is essentially a rimmless 3" or 3.25" 20 gauge bolt action magazine rifle. The question is this: Once I get a DD exemption for the cartrdige, do I then ALSO have to submit the rifle for exemption? It seems redundant, but I want to be one the safe side.

Thanks again for all the exciting work you do.

Jpt
Cheepshooter is offline  
Old March 6, 2010, 04:47 PM   #531
silentshot
Junior Member
 
Join Date: March 6, 2010
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 2
New Project - ? subsonic 12G FH

Hi Ed,
I have been following your thread for sometime, and like everyone else am very impressed with what you have done and appreciate you sharing your information.
I was so inspired that I purchased a bolt action 12G to start my own project. I am about to purchase a heavy rifled barrel and at this point I want to ask some advice.
My intention is a little bit different. I am a fan of the supressed / silenced rifles such as the Delisle carbine, and of the whipser series of subsonic wildcats, and the .510 is interesting. Imagine it at .710
I intend to load a standard 3" 12g to fire a very heavy projectile at subsonic. 1000 -1200grains or heavier. It would be a tapered profile.
The barrel would not have to be very long , say 16 inches, or even 12! (legal inimum here). I would attach a suppressor on the end of the barrel. I would not taper the barrel to keep it heavy, to help with recoil. The weight of the suppressor would help.
So just a couple of questions:
1) I assume that as my aim is subsonic I would be ok with a standard
length cartridge, assuming the heavy bullet would be longer also?
2) Any advice on powder and loads with standard or even short cartridge to get subsonic speeds.
3) What twist rate would you recommend? I know you use 1:20-22, but do you think say a 1:8 - 1:10 might be advisable for accuracy, but likely would be custom rather than off the shelf.

Cheers

Kevin
silentshot is offline  
Old March 6, 2010, 10:40 PM   #532
spotter123654
Member
 
Join Date: February 15, 2010
Location: New England USA
Posts: 86
beastly looking gun
spotter123654 is offline  
Old March 9, 2010, 01:24 AM   #533
HUBEL458
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 8, 2000
Posts: 594
I like that thumbhole stock/ For me could be all
wood and bluing.


jpt- I answered you on Greybeards forum.
Main thing is that a Gibbs case won't do .620" bullet.

Ok my 12ga is a.729" barrel. Pacnor 1-20 twist like mine
will do ok. Min bbl length shotgun is 18"-- unless you register
it as a NFA weapon and pay 200 buck tax.If a suppressor
will have to be NFA. You can do subsonic with 3" case.
Use about 30gr Blue dot slow shotgun powder with a
1000gr slug.

I am now putting a 3.5" 20ga on the FBW action.
We are having RMC make 3.5" brass 20ga cases. I also
bought a huge box of 3.5" plastic case Hastings
hot rod sabot slugs at their out if business auction.
Picture is of FBW with brass case in the feed trough.
Any wanting to do 20 ga brass cases, at same time,
contact RMC, they'd like to make a big batch this spring..
I also got few of the cases to make the 10ga FH
brass 4.050" long case. Anyone wanting one. I'll part
with them, but I'll only will have a few. The brass is hard
to find and costly.. Ed

__________________
ED HUBEL
HUBEL458 is offline  
Old March 10, 2010, 02:50 AM   #534
silentshot
Junior Member
 
Join Date: March 6, 2010
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 2
Subsonic

Hi Ed
Thanks for your reply.

Unfortunately I am not in the USA, I am in New Zealand ( a small country where they make movies like Avatar and Lord of the Rings) . We have some restrictive gun laws but the minimum bbl for shotguns in NZ is 12 inch not 18.

We are also allowed suppressors, as our focus is not self defence but hunting. There is no NFA to worry about, just no autos or pistols.

I was thinking of 0.729, 12 inch and a 1;20. I am glad 3 inch would be sufficent for subsonic, as I can use a standard breach.

I guess any faster twist than 1;20 would be counter productive.

The good news is that at 12 inch could get 2 barrels out of a blank.

Thanks again. will get cracking and send some photos soon.

Cheers

Kevin
silentshot is offline  
Old March 12, 2010, 11:27 PM   #535
HUBEL458
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 8, 2000
Posts: 594
I get asked about presses used for big cases.
Here is a picture of my 2 big presses on
the heavy bench, with the case spinner/lathe
on the back of the bench. Blue one is a Walnut
Hill and the green is beefed up Ammomaster.
Both are braced so I can lean on them.Bench is
braced to wall supports and benches behind.

You can see the expanders laid out on the press
brace arms, and a whole bunch of shorty dies laid
out, that fit everything from 10ga down to
my 700HE. And variety of large cases and real large
4ga-8ga dies, parts I work with. On the right is a
stack of my 585HE dies in the die boxes.Ed

__________________
ED HUBEL
HUBEL458 is offline  
Old March 17, 2010, 10:41 PM   #536
HUBEL458
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 8, 2000
Posts: 594
Now might get real exciting load developement wise,
If we could make brass cases as long as the paper
one on the right. In picture is 3.5" 10ga plastic
case, our 10GA FH brass 4.05" case I made by putting
a 10ga basecup on 50cal Russian brass, and third
a 6" long 10ga bomb disposal case used to shoot
liquid/gel in to bomb packages, I think.
Anyone knows for sure let me know.ED

__________________
ED HUBEL
HUBEL458 is offline  
Old March 23, 2010, 10:31 PM   #537
HUBEL458
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 8, 2000
Posts: 594
Here is picture showing surplus 50 Russian case before
and the 10ga brass case we make using it with
10ga bases pressed and epoxied on and expanding
case out straight, making the 4.050" long
10ga case.ED

__________________
ED HUBEL

Last edited by HUBEL458; March 23, 2010 at 10:38 PM.
HUBEL458 is offline  
Old March 28, 2010, 10:20 PM   #538
HUBEL458
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 8, 2000
Posts: 594
We have put 4 different cartridges in the Savage 210
bolt gun. We added various 12ga and .700"
heavy thick barrels.
The first was our 12ga FH long case.
The second was my 700H 3.25" belted case.
Third was the 3.5" 12ga that Bret did, and
fourth is the 700NE that we wanted to see
how it works. It shoots fine, has weighted stock,
and a 27 inch barrel.Has a double thick pad.
Cases in picture are 20 bucks each...Ed

__________________
ED HUBEL
HUBEL458 is offline  
Old April 2, 2010, 11:06 PM   #539
HUBEL458
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 8, 2000
Posts: 594
Here is picture of my Mossy 695 that has heavy barrel for
the our long 12ga cases, in fact it chambers the 12ga
belted shown in picture ok that I use for testing.
I set chamber to do belted as well as rimmed.

Second picture is some of my 585 Short HE cases, that work
great in regular length actions.We have these in Ruger,
Enfields, Mausers already. I have available supply of
brass for these of about 8-9000. Ed



__________________
ED HUBEL
HUBEL458 is offline  
Old April 9, 2010, 03:49 PM   #540
drewnickel
Junior Member
 
Join Date: April 9, 2010
Posts: 14
about the 12 gauge from hell

could you give me a list of all the supplies needed to build one? and how to double or triple a recoil pad for better protection? cause I'm planning on starting to get into gun collecting, and I'd like to have a 12gafh added to my (currently small) collection. list them by part # if possible so I can just look them up and buy them and have the local metal smiths do the rest, and how much does your ammo cost per 10?
drewnickel is offline  
Old April 11, 2010, 11:40 PM   #541
HUBEL458
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 8, 2000
Posts: 594
Depends on which gun you want to put it in.
Lik if a NEF, buy a NEF 12ga Ultra slug gun,
have your smith ream chamber to 3.5",
order brass 3.5" cases from RMC, 10 for $100.
You can also shoot 3.5" plastic and get real
strong loads. plastic Cases for reloading are 17 bucks
primed for a hundred. Get a BPI catalog so you can
see what is available. Like roll crimper, different slugs,
seals wads, sabots. To double up pad I just get a
thick slip on Limbsaver at gunshop and put it over the original
pad. I add more weight to the butt using extra holes
in butt filled with weight.Ultra has one weight in
the butt from the factory. I add more.

Getting to some more 4ga/bore work.With barrel and
falling block action locked down fired off some blank
type loads to test the breach and firing pin I set up.
I fired it by hitting the back of firing pin with hammer,
as I now have get hammer and trigger setup. Firing pin
dents primers ok, breach works and headspace is ok.

For loads I have wads to take up space above powder.
Others with same 4ga case in doubles fill case about
1/6 full of Blue Dot (110gr), with 2000gr slug.

I'll use 1600 gr hollowbase slugs, with about 1/3 of a case
of IMR 4759 or 1/2 to 5/8 case of RE17, rest filled
with fiber wads.These are shotgun primer loads and I will
be using THE PRIMERS OUT OF KILN CASES at about same
price as BMG primers. And I have BMG primer cases also
that I will test also, once gun is finished in a few weeks.Ed
__________________
ED HUBEL
HUBEL458 is offline  
Old April 21, 2010, 10:40 PM   #542
HUBEL458
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 8, 2000
Posts: 594
Fired 4bore with 760 gr light round ball with
fiber wads under it, using 150gr Blue Dot
and shotgun primer case. Just starting loads
for testing operation. Hardly no recoil,
like a heavy, beefed up blank load,
could go much higher with that light
of round ball. Will have pics of the muzzle
blast and the gun shooting from the side,
using heavier slugs in a week or so.
In Owen's 4bore double,that uses same case
size they use max of 110gr of Blue Dot
with 2000 gr slug. Ed

__________________
ED HUBEL
HUBEL458 is offline  
Old April 22, 2010, 07:33 AM   #543
mapsjanhere
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 6, 2009
Location: Albuquerque
Posts: 2,389
Now I know why your pictures always have a slightly reddish tint, they are blushing because you used 4bore, 760 gr ball and no recoil in the same sentence.
__________________
F 135 - the right choice
mapsjanhere is offline  
Old April 23, 2010, 01:15 AM   #544
HUBEL458
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 8, 2000
Posts: 594
Serious recoil will come at normal weight slugs for 4 bore,
1600-2000 gr, and velocity gets above 1500 fps.ED
__________________
ED HUBEL
HUBEL458 is offline  
Old April 23, 2010, 11:08 AM   #545
nefprotector
Junior member
 
Join Date: December 3, 2009
Location: SE Alabama
Posts: 701
Any youtube videos of firing this Beast? =-/
nefprotector is offline  
Old April 24, 2010, 10:31 PM   #546
HUBEL458
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 8, 2000
Posts: 594
We will have a video 4bore on YT in couple weeks.
Have one therer of 12ga FH atomising 6gal pail water.
It is called Grandpa's Cannon.

Fired the 4bore with the 760 gr round ball,
using 100gr of Blue Dot under 300gr RE17,
total 400gr. Hairy load, with 3500 fps, and
20,000 ft lbs. Used the turned 4bore cases,
with shotgun primers, and with that light
projectile case doesn't need sizing. This is
good beginning bullet weight for early testing.
I am gonna do 1200gr and 1600gr holding the
speeds to give about same energy.
I won't load heavier until I get another
stock like one I have that is full width.
Also those who want 3.5" 20ga brass cases,
Rocky Mtn Cartridge is making them now.ED
__________________
ED HUBEL
HUBEL458 is offline  
Old April 25, 2010, 10:48 PM   #547
knight0334
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 1, 2006
Location: Brookville, PA
Posts: 442
That load above makes my teeth hurt just thinking of touching that trigger, and I'm not even nowhere near recoil sensitive.
knight0334 is offline  
Old April 26, 2010, 02:09 AM   #548
Olibobwa
Member
 
Join Date: November 24, 2007
Posts: 82
heh heh dinosaur hunter
Olibobwa is offline  
Old April 26, 2010, 03:18 AM   #549
HUBEL458
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 8, 2000
Posts: 594
The gun is 28 lbs, thumbhole stock and that light
of slug don't recoil much. Normal weight 16-1700gr slug
will get serious recoil.Ed
__________________
ED HUBEL
HUBEL458 is offline  
Old April 30, 2010, 10:36 PM   #550
HUBEL458
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 8, 2000
Posts: 594
Tested 4bore with a double ball load of 1250 grains weight,
Used 100gr Blue Dot under 250gr of RE17, with card and
one fiber wad. 2600 fps. Recoil not bad, just brisk.
Used turned brass cases with shotgun primer, and cases
still didn't expand. Running about 23-25,000 psi.
The light ball load above about 16,000. Ed
__________________
ED HUBEL
HUBEL458 is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:16 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.23149 seconds with 8 queries