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Old July 18, 2009, 10:22 PM   #476
HUBEL458
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Got single stack mag figured out for 12GA FH and
my 700H 3.25 in PH. I fit a bolt action 12ga
box mag and its follower and spring
inside the PH mag box. Easy to fit in metal box,
and permanently mounted to metal and floorplate.
Holds 2 down. That way feed lips already a working
design. And opened back of 12ga box for longer case
like I did with my 700 in Savage 210. Also work
for anyone doing a PH in 12ga FH if they aren't
loaded too long or with 3.5" RMC cases. Using most
cast 12ga bullets like Dixies, the overall length with
3.5 brass is 3.9" and fits 4.05" box ok. Here is picture
PH from bottom showing its big size.You can see in pic
there still is room to make box longer yet.
And the feed port can be longer.Montana Rifle has
great action here with lots off room and strength.Ed

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Old July 30, 2009, 02:09 AM   #477
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I got barrel on the 4ga/bore falling block gun.
Barrel 32" long, 1.87" breech, gun is 27 lbs.
Notice breech block is down and huge hole in barrel.
Maybe shoulder cannon is the right term for it.
It is all inleted into thumbhole laminated Vulcan
50 cal stock, of which I need more, if anyone
knows where there are any. 4 bore cases shown,
and I'll use a big ammomaster press for them..Ed

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Old August 4, 2009, 11:42 PM   #478
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Here is a picture of the front end of the 4bore,
showing a 2000gr slug protuding out. Simulating
stop action photo work, as if anyone wwould be brave
enough to put a camera out in front of it
when it fired. Will have it firing by fall.
I plan on using hollowbase lead slugs of
about 1600gr, as it is a smoothbore. Ed

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Old August 13, 2009, 11:22 PM   #479
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I got 3" chambered 12ga set up to test loads with RE-17.
Many guys want loads for 3" chambered slug barrels as they
come from the factory., So I put extra 24" Savage barrel I had
on a Mauser GEHA bolt action. Rifled Savage barrel is modern
steel with .93" muzzle diameter. Original barrel on the GEHA
was only .82" at muzzle. I added an extra rear bolt locking lug
onto the Mauser bolt. Using up stuff to make test gun.

Any modern steel slug barrel, whether on bolt, autoloading,
pump, or break action gun with same muzzle diameter will handle
these RE-17 loads. Max loads were all 115gr of RE-17 in plastic
3" cases, all with seals and cushion wads. Can't get no more under
the seals, cushions and slugs in 3". Which is why I like 3.5"
chambers. With 437 gr Brenekkee and 420 gr in BPI sabot got
over 1900. With 520gr Lyman in shot cup 1850. With 600gr Dixie
got 1800. With 870 gr hard lead got 1600. This is 24" barrel,
so longer barrels will get more. In comparison to IMR4227 loads,
these are about the same speed as using 90gr of 4227. But this
powder is so much easier on cases and guns, with about .004"
less base cup expansion. It works great in 3" and really gets the
speed in 3.5" cases, as in 3.5" cases,as seal/wads about same,
extra length for powder. The 870gr load is max peak pressure of
16,000 psi. Muzzle pressure is about 3500-4000 psi.
I'll have pic of the Mauser in few days.ED
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Old August 19, 2009, 01:09 AM   #480
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Here is picture of my 695 Mossberg bolt action.
It is 28ga FH, a 3.25" long brass case. Was a
12ga with light barrel. I also have a heavy 12ga
barrel chambered for 3.5" cases and a .500" barrel
for my 499HE a real long brass case. Also I am
doing my 499HE in a NEF. You can get a NEF with
MMouse 500S&W and run my reamer in and get real
power.The 395,495,595 actions will work also,
as they like the 695 have double bolt lugs
and a loading port that can be lengthened.
And they have a nice style...Ed

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Old August 26, 2009, 12:18 AM   #481
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We get asked about finned slugs for
12ga smooth bores and if they take high
speed. Well they'll do just as good at high
speed as the locked on wad stablized Brenekkee
OK slug I tested in my smoothbore 1887 with long
barrel, in first pic. Second pic is a Corbin
finned slug I will get and test later. Third is
BPI AQ slug I will test, few weeks in the 87.
I'm going to test also in a regular smooth bore
12ga slug barrel of medium muzzle size.Ed





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Old September 2, 2009, 12:43 AM   #482
HUBEL458
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Here is picture of the Mauser GEHA shotgun I
setup with an Savage 210 rifled barrel. Used a Savage
plastic stock also. It is setup with the original 3"
chamber. I have many guys who want ideas and slug/load
combination's tested in regular rifled slug barrels, so
this is the one. Most testing will be 3" plastic cases.
Barrel 24" long, .93" regular slug size muzzle diameter.
The GEHA was originally converted from 98 Mausers in
Germany in the 20s, to 12ga by reaming outl the front lug seats
and using the rear safety lug. I added a second rear
bearing lug and it handles 15,000 psi loads ok.
The cases come out with the weight of the bolt.
That will be max pressure used in it, with that slug gun
barrel thickness. Example load is 115gr of RE17 in 3"
plastic case, with 520 gr Lyman cast slug at 1850 plus fps.
This load expands the plastic case base cups about .005",
in comparison, a REM factory Buckhammer and other super
mag turkey and goose loads expands .010".
And we have over 300 fps more velocity.Ed

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Old September 5, 2009, 10:31 PM   #483
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Testing some .660" diameter 630 gr hard cast
slugs in the red WIN wadcup in 3.5" plastic
case. Tested in rifled long barrel in 12ga
NEF about 2100 fps. Greg Sappington makes
these. They are hollow point. 3" group at
50yds, peep sight, bad eyes. I also fired
a couple to see if they'd work in my long
brass cased 16GA FH shown in the picture.
They work ok, so Greg has a double duty
slug.They'd work in 16ga plastic also.
The 16ga was held at 1500 as the barrel
isn't heavy, on Stevens/Revelation 16ga. Ed

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Old September 13, 2009, 10:37 PM   #484
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Comparing brass cases.I tell everybody who are stepping
up in power from 3.5 plastic, you can get 3.5" brass cases
from Rocky Mtn Cartridge. Here you can see how heavy
and nice they are compared to regular brass cases.
They also make shorter 3" brass cases also.
They fit the chamber tight and are long enough to
get some serious thumping power.And they have a
super strong, thick , solid head, not a weak balloon head
like regular ones on the left in pic.Ed



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Old September 14, 2009, 12:00 AM   #485
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ooooo can I play?????
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Old September 15, 2009, 01:39 AM   #486
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Get a NEf Ultra slug gun to play with.. Have smith lengthen chamber
for 3.5" cases. and use our strong loads in 3.5" plastic cases.
Then get 3.5" brass RMC cases and get more power.And your on
your way to recoil land.Ed
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Old September 19, 2009, 10:01 PM   #487
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Tested my 499HE in a NEF. Loads I didn't have to
full length resize the case, only top 1/4 of case.
325gr at 2600, 500gr at 2150.
In NEF got both weight bullets 300 fps faster,
still extracted very easy.I got reamer. Just run it
in NEF 500 chamber and you got a blaster. And add
a little weight and thick pad to the gun.I have
a barrel ring to hold forearm along with original
bolt, as I added weight there as well as the butt.Ed

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Old September 25, 2009, 12:03 AM   #488
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Finally an 870 with longer 1" muzzle barrel. Barrel
is heavier than most all add on pump gun barrels,
and it is 25.5" long, Something that would really get
it on with the slower powder loads we have.
Rifled barrel is solid mount in receiver, scoperail solid mount.

It is the REM 870 Super Slug Gun.
Nice long heavy barrel, and thumbhole stock for
handling recoil better. Plastic case 3" slug loads of ours that
gets 600gr slugs to 1800-1900 fps, work great in this
Like the ones I load and roll crimp in second picture
that are setting behind the little vise, and the one in the
vise readt to be crimped...Ed



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Old September 29, 2009, 10:43 PM   #489
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Ed, I've been following your progress for a while now. I even got a couple of 12gaFH dummy rounds from you earlier this year.

After reading this thread over from the beginning, I have a few questions:

1) where is "the AR forum" that the FH originated on?

2) are you still selling the threaded rim rings for people to use on their own BMG brass?

3) you mentioned you used a Pac-Nor barrel on your first FH.
They list a 28", 1.5" dia. 12ga rifled barrel (no twist given) for $305, plus $11/inch for extra length. Is this what you used, or was it all custom?

4) have you used barrels from anyone else?

5) have you (or others) come up with a good idea of what twist works with any particular bullet, or is there not enough data yet?


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Old October 3, 2009, 01:00 AM   #490
HUBEL458
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I have no threaded rings- but Rob on AR is making them
as well as complete cases. Pm him there.
AR is acuratereloading.com, and you go to the BIG BORE
section of the forums.
That is the barrel we use and we use a 1 to 20-22 twiist,
other barrels used are smooth ones and the rifled ones on
the NEF as they come from the factory.
1 to 22 twist stabilizes anything we use even super heavy
slugs. You can start with a NEF Ultra slig and ream chamber
for longer plastic and brass cases to get in recoil business.

Here is a novel slug idea, hard plastic support ring on
the front, and a locked base ring/seal. Metal never
touches the bores. Work in great rifled and good in
smooth barrels. These are steel, lead/copper would do
great also.Could be made heavier and different points.
Flat point shown would do great damage to game.
On the net- ammunitiontogo.com
This one is about 500 gr.

Second picture is the 499HE to use in redoing the 500S&W,
shown on the also, in single shots, etc,for those wanting
much more power at 40-50% lower pressures.Ed



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Old October 8, 2009, 12:26 AM   #491
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Some more testing with RE17 powder. I used it in 2.75",
3", 3.5" 12ga plastic, 3.5 and 3.85" brass. I like it the
best of all, as well as the real slow powders in our
long case with BMG primer.
Following tested in Savage-max pressure 35k psi.
I took couple of our first made 3.85" BMG based
long cases and bushed them back to use shotgun primers
to fire off the RE17. Works great, with 715gr jacketed slug
and 220 gr RE17 getting 2700 . With 420 gr slug in
BPI sabot with 250 gr RE17 getting 3200 plus.
Following tested in NEF-max pressure 25k psi.
Using 3.5" MRC brass, 715gr jkt and 200gr RE17, got 2500.
420 gr in BPI sabot and 220 gr Re17, got 2900 fps.
And we get real good velocities in plastic with half the
basecup expansion of factory mag loads.So that solves
problem-IE, being able to use regular firing mechanisms and
shotgun primers, with large enough powder charges to
get hairy velocities at mag shotgun pressures in plastic
and higher in brass cases with heavy barrels.A good powder
for plastic and brass loads.
I see now that Lightfield Co has the Commander 3.5" Plus
slug loads with 600gr at 1900, probably in a test barrel.
But that is great- nice, as it seems we're being copied!!!ED
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Old October 13, 2009, 05:24 PM   #492
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So many guys want 12ga sabot type slugs to reload their own.
Here is an interesting combination slug available in Europe
and they are working to get distributors/stores here.
Any interested stores and shops contact them. We need
many sources of saboted slugs for reloading. The sabot
petals discards completely as slug exits muzzle and locked
on base stays with slug, making it nose heavy so it will give
decent accuracy in smooth bores.Will work in rifled barrels
also. Slug is .629" diameter, comes in 570gr, 700gr, 970gr
weights. They're selling these reloader/other loaders only.
It is called the US-S slug, and their site is
europeancartridgeunlimited.com ..Ed

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Old October 21, 2009, 03:13 AM   #493
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The company kindly gave me few US-S slugs to test at high speeds.
I had helped him test another slug a while back.
He sent me some each of the US-S 570 gr, 700 gr, 970 gr.
I tested the 570 gr so far and in 3.5" plastic case in the 1887
smoothbore 35" barrel and in the NEF rifled 36" barrel at
1900 fps. I got that with 130gr of RE17 with one BPGS
seal under the sabot on the slug. The bottom of the sabot seal
is exactly like a BPGS, so a BPGS added gives double sealing.
Both smooth and rifled gave 3 shot 3" group each at 50 yds with
peep sights and bad eyes. This slug does as good as advertized
in smooth barrels, and smooth accuracy is as good as rifled.
My smooth barrel is tight, measuring 723" at muzzle.
These should be a great deer and hog slug. Folks need to
ask their dealers to work to import these for them
to have what seems a good slug to reload...

On another note we may have found a guy who is gearing up
to make 10 ga rifled barrels. I'll know later this winter
If so I will put one on a bolt action and use the 4.1" long
10GA FH case I made or get some like it from RMC..Ed
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Old October 24, 2009, 08:44 PM   #494
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Remington 700 Conversion ?

Have you ever seen or performed a conversion on a Remington 700 action ? I have wanted to do a 12 gauge 3 1/2 conversion for a while. Although with Hastings coming out with the 3 1/2" 20 gauge, that might be the chambering I would want to use. I am primarily interested in long range accuracy. Winchester currently has the 20 gauge 3" Partition Gold slugs rated in the 2000 fps range. I believe this slug is 260 grains. I would like to get a plastic hull 3 1/2 " to push a similiar weight bullet in the 3000 fps range and still be safe. Do you think that the remington 700 would work for this, and which caliber would be a good starting point ? Also, would you go with a the 20 gauge or the 12 gauge? Keep in mind that I am not looking for the heavy weight bullets that you are using. I have a 700 MLS in .50 caliber that I have been eyeing for this project. I appreciate any advice.

Thanks
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Old October 24, 2009, 11:53 PM   #495
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You can get light slugs that fast in a BPI Sabot, 3.5" plastic case, with our slow powder loads. And others loads.

I get 420 gr in BPI sabot up to 2700. Rem 700 doesn't have large enough diameter for 12ga case. You can use a Savage 210 12ga bolt action. or a NEF Ultra 12ga slug gun, with bull barrel. Or if pumpguns you like ythe new heavy barreled 870 slug gun.

Here is picture of the US-S slugs in a lineup with other 12ga slugs I'm testing.

Lefteris was kind enough to send me a few of each weight to test. They are the 3 in second row on the right. They are 570gr, 700 gr, 970 gr. I tested 570gr in 3.5" plastic so far.

At 1900 in the NEF rifled, and in the 1887 smooth barrel, got 3" group on both. With peep sights and bad eyes. So the US-S slug is great in smoothbores, as good as rifled.

My smoothbore on the 1887 is .723" bore at muzzle, a nice tight fit for smooth slugs. The smooth bores Lefteris tested them with are .722" muzzle, and they've already killed 5 wild boars, one shot kills with the 570gr slug. Also if anyone wants a heavy smoothbore new 12ga barrel, .722" muzzle, 1.375" outside diameter to make a great slug gun with slugs like these, and others like the Brenekkes, I have spare one. It is 30", chrome moly alloy, super strong, nice an shiny inside and out. Plenty of metal for any contour.
Good for bolt guns like Savage,Mossberg. ED

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Old October 27, 2009, 11:22 PM   #496
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I got the 700H 3.25 case feeding from the magazine I set up on the Montana Rifle Co PH action.

It is singlestack with feed lips similiar to 12ga shotgun clip style magazines I had here. Works great, shown in first picture.

Now it is longer than regular 12ga mags, but same setup would do for feeding long brass 12GA FH and long MRC 12ga cases. The 700H 3.25 is 3.9 inches overall loaded length. In picture case is ready to clear the mag lips, then rim pops up under extracter as bolt is moving forward.

Second picture is the box used that I made out of two PH boxes. That allowed for extra height and fit for singlestack and riveted together. Used a Savage 210 12ga follower and spring. ED



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Old November 4, 2009, 11:06 PM   #497
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The 700gr US-S slug in smoothbore, at 2000 in a 3.5" brass case, got a 2.5" 3 shot group at 50 yds. Great slugs they have come up with for smoothbores.

Some of us talking about getting 10 ga rifled barrels made, here is a picture of my 4.1" long brass 10ga I made from 50cal Russian by putting on a rim like the 12GA FH is built. Just a prototype, third in picture. Later I'll get RMC to make some, as it is much easier way. First in picture is 16GA FH 3.5" long, 2nd 12GA FH 3.85" long, 3rd 10GA FH 3.1" long, 4th 8GA FH 4.3" long.Ed

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Old November 4, 2009, 11:36 PM   #498
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Alright Ed.....I've been following this thread for a long time and my guts are twitching!

All this stuff you are doing is MILES beyond my capabilities.

But I have been wanting a S X S double rifle since Johnson was President!

If I handed you a S X S shotgun, could you make it into a rifle? A BIG bore rifle.

Not a tack driver....2/3 MOA....An old style African big game rifle.
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Old November 8, 2009, 10:45 PM   #499
HUBEL458
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To do a heavy barrel 12GA FH on a double you use
heavy 19ga double and mono-block in heavy 12ga barrels
I don't have the machines to do a double, but Rob
on the big bore section of Accuratereloading forum
is doing one.Check with him. Gunsmith Colin Stolzer
might be able to do it.

I now have a variety of 12GA FH test guns including
two Savage 210s in the lineup...SO passing on the first
12GA FH that I did on the Savage 210 bolt action.
Its in original Savage stock now, 28" Pacnor rifled barrel.
Stock is weighted and double thick recoil pad.
It is chambered for the original 3.85" long 12GA FH
case.It will fire shorter cases also.
750 plus shipping, included 4 of our long cases and
30 slugs.That is the first 12GA FH built on a Savage
and the second 12GA FH ever built. Pickup here for MI
guys ok also. Savage 210s are now 550 bucks, the heavy
rifled barrel cost me 350 bucks..Ed
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Last edited by HUBEL458; November 11, 2009 at 02:08 PM.
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Old November 8, 2009, 10:56 PM   #500
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How is this not a DD?
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