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Old February 16, 2009, 12:05 AM   #426
dcobler
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Fantastic project and beautiful work. I'll definetly keep this one for a ref.
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Old February 20, 2009, 03:11 AM   #427
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dcobler--Thankyou and if you or anyone needs any
help in the way of info or research just ask.Those of
us doing this are having fun and glad to help anyway
we can.ED
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Old February 22, 2009, 12:46 AM   #428
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Here is picture of one of RIP's NEFs 12GA FH, with
a Vias brake installed. He had smith ream out a
50cal one to let 12ga slugs pass through...Ed

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Old February 27, 2009, 11:40 PM   #429
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The Vias brake bored out in above picture will help
RIP with recoil as he wants to shoot all heavy slugs
in the NEF Ultra. Guys like the Vias brakes.They
can be bored out and fitted to anything.
I just like ported internal brakes and more gun weight.

Here are some results( had 1 nice day) with 8 gauge and
10ga light slug loads of my testing. I call them my real
big bore varmint loads. A 770 gr slug in 8ga fired in
Enfield at 2400 all 3 shots nearly touching at 20 yds.
A 515 gr Lyman, NEF 10ga at 2400, same tight group
at 20yds. Lyman is originally for 12ga, but is fit in
10ga thickwall BPI shotcup cut off and slug glued in so
it is like a impact discarding sabot. Both smoothbores.

Smaller varmint load. NEF rifled 12ga with RG's 385gr
aluminum cored jacketed slug at 2700, 2 overlapping
and one half inch away using RMC 3.5" case. Ed
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Old February 28, 2009, 04:17 PM   #430
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W. O. W.
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Old March 2, 2009, 12:59 AM   #431
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The three slug loads tested above are real
light recoiling, easy to shoot. I call
them my big bore, varmint slugs as they are
light for the bore size. Here is picture of
the 3 slugs for comparison. 1st is 770gr in 8ga wadcup,
second is 515 Lyman in 10ga wadcup, third is the
12ga 385gr HP with aluminum core. The 8ga wadcup
loses its petals going out the barrel, but
hollowbase 770gr slug stays straight.The 515gr Lyman
in the 10ga thickwall wadcup is also as a unit
nose heavy and runs straight. The Lyman is held in
cup with little plastic mender glue, so that it
acts like a Hammerhead and Lightfield slugs.Ed

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Last edited by HUBEL458; March 2, 2009 at 01:16 AM.
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Old March 3, 2009, 11:33 PM   #432
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Here is what a 600gr super hardened Dixie slug
at 29-3000 plus does to two mild steel plates with
2" wood between them. Fired from our long case
in the Savage.Plates are soft mild steel.
Anyone interested in the 12ga Encore
with 3.5" chambers, that I tested loads in,
it is on Gunbroker..Ed

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Old March 6, 2009, 10:39 PM   #433
HUBEL458
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Shot the NEF 8GA FH. That is the heavy barrel NEF
that was a 10ga.. I bored it out to 8ga and chambered
it for the heavy duty 8ga case. 770gr at 2200 out of
29" barrel. End of barrel has internal brake with 21
porting holes and with weighted thumbhole stock,
it handles recoil easy.Will have picture soon.Ed
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Old March 11, 2009, 11:20 PM   #434
HUBEL458
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Here is my 12GA FH Savage 210 with thumbhole
stock, I put on in place of first one that cracked.
Along with weight and heavy barrel handles recoil
great. It is a Boyd and came inleted for Savage
112, and I re-did inleting to fit 210 and
heavy barrel,and got rid of monte carlo
outline.Ed

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Old March 16, 2009, 11:46 PM   #435
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Here is picture of RIP's two 12GA FH NEFs.
Both are the 12ga Ultra Slug Guns.
One has Vias brake, other expansion chamber.
He calls it his golf ball launcher. Ed


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Old March 16, 2009, 11:55 PM   #436
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I've got to admit that I'm extremely impressed by all of this. Showed my buddies at work to the sound of much "ooing" and "awing" Great job man.
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Old March 17, 2009, 09:10 PM   #437
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I found a shotgun primer that will ignite rifle powders,
like RL15-19, IMR 4064,4198, etc. With regular shotgun
primers I had to use Blue Dot starter.
But not with these.....They are the industrial
shotgun primers used in the 8ga kiln gun cases. I use
these cases with basecup reduced in my 8 gauges.
When I set up first 8ga I fired the primers only to test
firing function(cases came with primer), then I put
regular 209 primers in to test loads, with 4759 powder.
Found box of WIN paper case kiln 3oz loads and took one
apart and noticed it had 94gr of some ball powder.
I wondered what powder is and how a regular shotgun primer
could ignite that, based on our need for starter powder
using regular rifle powders. So I fired that industrial
primer and flame and sparks came out of 8ga NEF barrel
2-3 feet. Put a regular primer in same case and flame
just a few inches. So I took REM kiln case with original
REM industrial primer and 2-3 feet of flame,and put regular
primer in and just few inches of flame. If anyone got
info on th powder used and how to get these primers,
let us know. I took some out of 8ga and put in 12ga plastic.
Using these hairy industrial primers today fired 180gr
of RL-15, in 12GA FH NEF, in 3.5" plastic cases with
437gr Brenekke KO slug. Got perfect ignition, no starter.
140gr with 600gr dixie, perfect ignition.
Also I have the 12ga Encore that we tested loads
in, on Gunbroker, in shotgun singleshot section.Ed
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Old March 17, 2009, 09:16 PM   #438
Brian Pfleuger
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Do you guys know where one could purchase sabots that could be used to load 12ga shells with something in the 30-45 caliber bullet range?

I'm thinking that if a 12ga can fire a 385gr slug at 1900 fps then it ought to be able to do wonders with a 150-250gr bullet.
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Old March 18, 2009, 12:00 AM   #439
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The only 12ga sabots out there so far that I know of,
are for 50 cal slug/bullets. Like the BPI shown earlier
in thread. Maybe there is a 50cal sabot that holds
30 cal bullets and put that in 12ga sabot.Ed
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Old March 18, 2009, 09:53 AM   #440
Brian Pfleuger
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Quote:
The only 12ga sabots out there so far that I know of,
are for 50 cal slug/bullets. Like the BPI shown earlier
in thread. Maybe there is a 50cal sabot that holds
30 cal bullets and put that in 12ga sabot.Ed
I thought about the double sabot idea but considering that the major manufacturers have enough trouble getting reliable sabot separation when using only one, I can't imagine the trouble with getting TWO cleanly away. I suppose it might be possible to glue the two together.... hmmm....
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Old March 19, 2009, 09:41 PM   #441
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I always felt that if some company would make powders like 7383
available it would be great. 7383 ignites fine with regular
shotgun primers in 12ga, but it is surplus and only a few of
us have it.It is a powder that has a lot of the deterrent inside
the of the material, not all near the outside like 99% of
all other powders whether spherical, tubular, or flake.
This allows easier ignition, but yet the deterrent still can
control the speed. Well the new RE-17 just out for 2 days
is setup like that. The surface of the RE-17 grains is
more porous than RE15, so that fact allows better ignition
even though a slower powder, and along with fact that company
got most deterent inside it still regulates speed.
Today I fired with regular REM and WIN primers in
plastic and RMC cases, a whole bunch of loads of RE-17,
with no hesitation or squibs or misfires. Loads ranged from
437 gr slugs to 750gr slugs today. All loads burnt clean
and I got in RMC case one of RG's 715gr jkt slugs to 2300
with 160 gr of RE-17.....Whoopee....Ed
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Old March 25, 2009, 10:04 PM   #442
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I shot couple loads with regular primer with RE-17
and 1040 gr slug in 12GA FH NEF, and it does great.
Tested loads that were cooled outside a while.Perfect ignition.
I fired loads RE-17 8ga plastic,in my 8GA FH on new NEF long
heavy barrel that was a 10 ga and RE-17 is great. No hesitation,
it fires off as good in 8ga as the 4759. Remember
I couldn't get good ignition in 8g with 4227, but so far
RE-17 is magic. In 8 ga all it would hold under the 8ga REM
wadcup with 770 gr slug is 200 gr of RE-!7, with the
wadcup pressed down, compressed real hard,good crimp,
and it really bellers.2400 plus.Going by case
expansion about 20k pressure. Which don't bother
those one piece compression molded super strong
8ga REM cases. You must have real tight proper
roll crimp in plastic cases and good tight
taper crimp or rolled in crimp in groove
in the brass cases. In RMC brass I size it so slugs
have to be shoved in with press.

And this RE-17 doesn't break up the kernels when powder
gets to a certain point, like the 7383 does, causing burning
rate to speed up more than what it was designed for.
I tested 7383 in my 700HE, and when up to 35-40k it's
pressure went up fast, much more than linear progression.
I still like 7383 at shotgun pressures, but I really like
RE-17.Just pour case full and shoot with lighter slugs.

Ok- for those who want to get into the 12GA FH and get
the long strong 3.85 inch cases Rob on AR got some made,
you can email him to get some- garnickrob@aol.com
He can also tell you where to get reamer.Ed.
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Old March 30, 2009, 01:48 AM   #443
HUBEL458
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Here is picture of another fellas work on AR forum,
of NEF 12GA FH, factory thumbhole stock
and a brake he built, with wide slots in top and round
ports on the sides. He is testing heavy slugs.Ed




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Old April 1, 2009, 10:50 PM   #444
HUBEL458
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Here's picture of solid turned 12ga slugs that Rob makes.
They are flat on one end and hollowpoint on other.
They can be shot either direction. Aluminum ones
are 346gr, brass 1080gr........If you need any
contact him. He, RIP, and others on AR are testing
them with different powders. I have gotten similiar brass
ones to 1900 in NEF with RMC case, with
140 gr the new RL-17. Ed

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Old April 5, 2009, 11:08 PM   #445
HUBEL458
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Heavy brass slug testing-----
RIP'S components in first picture-
15gr Blue Dot starter, thin plastic separator,
230gr HBMG, thin plastic under slug,
and 1087gr brass slug; in a RMC 3.5"
brass case, fired in his great looking,
braked NEF 12ga FH Ultra, got him
1812 fps average. Barrel and brake
are 27" total length. Great work. Ed



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Old April 13, 2009, 01:20 AM   #446
HUBEL458
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One of our testers, Bret in MN, got the BPI Sabot with
500gr Hornady .500 slug up to the good speed listed
on BPI"s loading sheet, using shotgun powders. I could
get them there with my loads using much larger amounts
of rifle powders. He tested 3.5" Federal plastic cases in
his Savage 210 with 3.5" chamber and the 28" heavy barrel
he put on. With 50gr of Longshot(max load for all modern
guns) he got 2550 fps, with 500gr in sabot. He use two
BPGS gas seals fitted together over the powder, then
a FS12 Flexseal wad, then a 1/4" cork wad, then the sabot.

Then a good strong roll crimp with drill/drillpress crimper.
This load is at mag shotgun pressures by case expansion
measurements and BPI's 46gr load tested at 12,500 psi.
He also did one with one BPGS and two Flexseals and had
200 fps less.He had tried other combinations seals/wads
and with same amount of powder and got lower yet.
He also went up with the powder, with seal/wads that worked
the best and got about 3000 fps, but the plastic cases
stuck and wouldn't eject easy. I will be testing same
seal and wad column in a few days, in my NEF with long
barrel to compare results.I thank Bret, he is a real
good experimenter and idea man. Everybody is trying
like crazy to get that 500gr saboted slug up to big
game gun velocities with shotgun powder and thanks to
BPI"s supply of the right components it has happened.Ed
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Old April 13, 2009, 11:25 PM   #447
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Have you got pictures of the 8 GA. yet?
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Old April 15, 2009, 02:45 AM   #448
HUBEL458
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There is two pics above. One is 8ga in the Enfield
bolt acton. the other is the NEF, and here is NEF
in pic again.Ed

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Old April 16, 2009, 10:36 PM   #449
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Rob on AR is building a 12GA FH double on a Zabala Double
10 gauge frame. It has the Greener crossbolt. He cut off
barrels to make a 4" long monoblock double to screw a
pair of heavy 12ga rifled Pacnor barrels into. He reamed out
monoblock section and threaded it. His barrels are
1.116" at the breach, .97" at muzzle and 22" total length.
Barrels threaded into monoblock with a 15/16" x 32 thread.
In the pics it is partly done and he will put in the ribs
and integral sight rib and regulate for accuracy.
It will be about 14.5 lbs when done he says.Ed



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Old April 17, 2009, 12:06 AM   #450
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now that is dead sexy
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