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Old December 20, 2008, 10:24 PM   #401
HUBEL458
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Here is picture of the bolt for my big gun, the 700HE.
It is holding a 700HE long case. The caseholder extraction system
can headspace a BMG rimless case,no belt, so you could
put on a 12ga barrel, straighten case more, from .700 to .729"
and have the rimless 12ga. Could straighten case for a
.750" bore, even to 10ga(.775") with a little thinning of the
top one inch of the case. Experimenting is interesting
to say the least. 700 slugs in pic are 1000gr Woodleigh,
1000gr PA, 825gr Copperhead Custom(CC), 770gr FP CC,
1000gr HP CC, 825gr HP CC..Ed

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Old December 21, 2008, 01:52 PM   #402
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You know that this makes you a gun nut far and above all other gun nuts,,,
I am proud of you for building such a monster,,,, but,,,,
You could have saved yourself a lot of work,, you know they did make anti-tank bolt action guns back in the 30’s, 20 or 22 millimeter.
You couldn’t pay me to shoot that monster, but I would give any thing to see it hit,,,, say a 55 gallon barrel full of water.
That gun deserves to be on Myth busters.
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Old December 23, 2008, 12:21 AM   #403
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Thankyou-When spring gets here we will do a plastic 15 gallon
barrel with top load in the 700 with a hollowpoint. the one
we did with 12GA FH in Youtube video was a 6 gal pail.
There is a new heavy barreled rifled slug gun out,
the Rossi Model S12 1230S. It will handle our heavier
loads like the NEF. And it can have chamber lengthened
for 3.5" plastic and RMC brass 12ga cases. Ed



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Old December 27, 2008, 09:53 PM   #404
HUBEL458
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The BPI sabot is tending toward small diameter.
With a .512" slug it measures . 727"---So I run one
into die and reduced it .020". It is lead, swaged easy.
Shot a BPI sabot with 385gr Great plains slug in 700HE
great big gun pictured above. That Great plains slug
was reduced .020". With 300gr of super fast ball
powder blend in 3.85" case got over 4500.

Using slugs with locked on bases and RG's hollowbase
jacketed slug in 3.5" RMC brass cases in the 1887
Win levergun. RG's 670 gr HB- 2500 . Brenekke KO
435gr- 2700, Lightfield 460 gr- 2600 . Even got
a 385gr in BPI sabot to target straight.Levergun has
34" smooth barrel and with chamber for 3.5" long
cases it is run as singleshot. Barrel is a tight smoothbore
going from .726" to .722". Took out lifter and other
stuff and put in a bottom style extractor I built that
is operated by the lever at bottom of opening
stroke. Then take cases out with fingers, thus able to
handle long cases in a short action.Makes a real old timey,
neat looking, single shot blaster.Ed
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Old January 1, 2009, 02:31 AM   #405
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Before I posted about testing a NEF in 10ga with
a medium heavy barrel. The newer one is better.
It is the one I showed the ported barrel previously.
I did some 10ga FH testing in that newer, real
heavy barreled, NEF 10ga, that is going to soon be an
8GA FH, after reaming out. The internal brake set up
on the end as shown in picture above works great.
I stopped all of the muzzle rise and cut recoil
Gun now is 14 lbs and has thumbhole stock.
Top load with 3.5" plastic case, 765gr slug,
135gr of 4227, 2200 fps, 8200 ft lbs.Ed
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Old January 5, 2009, 01:13 AM   #406
HUBEL458
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A 28GA FH new slug.. The Lyman cast 20ga slug made to
fit in a 20ga shotcup for 20 ga slug hunters, works perfect
in the 28GA FH brass case. It is a hollowbases hourglass
shaped 362 gr slug. No wadcups or wads needed, loaded
right on powder. It is the slug you buy the molds to cast
your own or you can buy them from guys who cast for
sale. I use slow rifle powders in case so no air space,
they fill to the slugs. I got 2900 with moderate case
expansion and it hits target straight on, from a smooth
28ga heavy barrel on 695 Mossberg bolt action.

Other new info on primers. Some of the guns can't have the
firing pins or hammers beefed up easy like my Enfields
With some magnum primers with hard cups you get delayed
ignition if hammer doesn't have perfect hit and high strength.
One test with a small diameter case/bore that any primer will
ignite slow powders fine with good firing pin spring would
show delayed ignition with shotgun battery cup style 209
CCI Mag and 209 Federal Mag primers, and when I tested them
in cases with just the primers, they only put in a small dent
when they fired, but WIN 209, REM 209, RWS 209(used in
Brenekkes, Lightfields, Hastings), dented in much more when
firing just the primer. And with the smaller bore you had fire out
the end of the barrel, so you could compare primer strength
visually. The REM 209 was as good or better than CCI and FED
209 Mag Primers. The WIN and RWS was close behind. We put
the REM in same case/gun where that we had delayed ignition
and it fired instantly, no delay. The two mag primer brands have
the primer insert in cup rounded a lot and little harder metal,
and the other 3 metal cup insert is almost flat and slightly
softer. It is easier to get a better more solid strike and dent.
I always figured mag primers were best in our hopped
up shotgun loads but not anymore. It took a while but I finally got
everything around for proper test. Hopped up loads(regular also)
we have talked about, use REM 209, where the firing pins
and hammers can't be strengthened. Even loads with Longshot,
Blue Dot, Steel, HS6-7, etc.
Hope this helps.....ED
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Old January 7, 2009, 12:22 PM   #407
HUBEL458
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More pimer info-- Some guys tell me that large rifle primers
in Magtech and other brands that make brass 12 ga cases
are more powerful than shotgun primers in brass cases.
First of all there is no major mfg selling loaded brass ammo
so their isn't lot of them out there with shotgun primers,
that have to meet industry specs and reliability.
It is mainly reloaders doing it. The large rifle primers are
flat on top once loaded in the case and they are not real
hard metal so they give real good ignition, hence the thinking
they are stronger than shotgun primers. But if shotgun primers
are ignited ok they do have a little more power as can be
seen in my smaller shotgun barrel tests where the flame
comes out the end of the 28ga barrel to see easy, and
you see how far the flame extends. And lab tests show that if
both ignited ok that shotgun primers are stronger.
I've had too many click bangs and the purpose of this
bunch of tests is to get primer reliability for guys reloading
slugs with all the variances in cases, headspace, firing
pin strength, different powders etc. So others don't
get misfires and delayed ignition. ED
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Old January 7, 2009, 05:03 PM   #408
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Hubel, have you shot any critters with this or should I say these calibers yet? Can you say PENETRATION?
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Old January 9, 2009, 12:20 AM   #409
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I've shot brass slugs & solid bullets through 6 foot bundles
of hardwood slabs. Shot lead bullets through 1/4" steel
plate, makes huge hole. Many guys in the midwest and
south have used the hopped up loads in plastic and
brass 2.75", 3", and 3.5" cases for deer and hogs.
Shot couple pigeons with hopped up 10ga shot load
going about 2000 fps.Ed
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Old January 11, 2009, 08:22 PM   #410
HUBEL458
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Here is picture my NEF, soon to be, 8ga gun.
It weighs 15 lbs. The hollow butt and hollows
in the forearm are weighted. It has a neat recoil
barrel ring I added so forearm stays put.
It has internal brake on barrel that I picture
earlier in thread with the porting holes.
Second picture is a Lyman 520 gr slug on the right
that we are testing . They go in regular 12ga shotcups,
and many folks have good accuracy with them, even
in smooth bores. They are hollowbase nose-heavy
design. These are the ones you cast your own.
And there are guys casting some for sale.
On the left is my prototype of the Lyman
style, of 900gr for our 8GA FH. Going to get a
mold made. The base of it will fit the 8ga shotcup
used in the kiln gun loads, and the front will be our
smoothbore 8ga size, .832-835". I designed this
as the flat ended kiln slug wasn't designed
to give accuracy in a smoothbore. Ed



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Old January 17, 2009, 01:10 AM   #411
HUBEL458
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The picture is some aluminum cored jacketed slugs

RG made, weighing 385 gr. Full .730" diameter, hollowpoint,

and one I filled nose with glue gun. Fairly streamlined. 3600 in

the Savage with our long case..Slug is nice and long,

1.22" HP and 1.4" with plastic I put in the nose.

In Nef with RMC 3.5" brass case 2700, 3.5" plastic 2500. Ed

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Old January 17, 2009, 01:20 AM   #412
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I still can't figure out what I would use it for, but I WANT ONE!!!!!!
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Old January 22, 2009, 12:15 AM   #413
HUBEL458
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You can make big holes you can see easy.

RIP on AR forums been testing starter powders loads, with
shotgun primers,with Blue Dot starter and HBMG main load. And
I just tested some variety of ones myself.
Doing some testing with starter powder, 15gr Blue Dot, with
slower powders that fill the cases with minimum wads.
Tested in 3.5" RMC case in NEF with shotgun primer,
with 36" added to barrel.Remember I have extra foot of bbl.

These 4 top loads expanded case, where I check it, just above
thick base section to .811" from .807" resized.

1000gr jacketed, 230gr HBMG, 1800 fps, 7200 ft lbs,
with 1/8" card and 1/4" felt wad.

715gr jkt, 270gr HBMG, 2200, 7600 ft lbs, 1/8" card.

600gr Dixie, 250 gr Retumbo, 2400, 7600 ft lbs, 1/8" card.

385gr jkt AL core, 250 gr RL25,2900, 7200 ft lbs.

Now the starter powder loads, which a few guys like, increase
powder speeds so that HBMG acts like RL25. In first example,
with 1000 gr in RMC case you couldn't use 230gr of RL25
as that would expand RMC brass too much and stick the case.
A few guys have found that slow powder, with starter
powder is easiest for 1000gr and heavier loads.

On another note, I've heard around the grapevine that if
enough of us ask for NEF to make available a 12ga Ultra with
a 28" rifled bull barrel that they would do it.Start calling
folks, maybe do some good. Just tell them these new sabot
and fullbore slug loads need more barrel to get the velocity
out of them. 1-866-776-9292. Ed
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Old January 26, 2009, 02:28 AM   #414
HUBEL458
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Here is picture of 28GA FH brass case with the 350gr
Lyman cast slug. It is the slug you cast to use
originally in 20ga shot cups, for slug hunting.
It is nose heavy and will work in smooth bores.
Brass 3.25" cases from Rocky Mtn Cartridge. It
will work in NEF/H&R 28ga modern break action guns
that cost 150 bucks, 26" barrel, you lengthen chamber
for the brass case. Good hunting loads would
be 2000 fps and the gun with a little weight added
and good pad would handle it fine. Had a few guys ask
about 28ga slug shooting, here is away..Ed

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Old January 31, 2009, 01:43 AM   #415
HUBEL458
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Here is a double projectile load that would make a
good defense load. Two Brenekkes doubled up in RMC
case in the NEF. 85 gr of 4227 pushing 2 one
ounce KO slugs about 1600. Bottom slug has seal.

Also found a way to adapt extra slugs to 10ga. A
515 gr Lyman slug for use in 12ga wadcup, in my
10ga, by using thickwall BPI steel no slit wadcup
shortened and Lyman bottomed out in it, so it
is like a discard on impact sabot slug. Like Lightfield
and Hastings. I shaved the bottom diameter of Lyman
so it would fit tight. Similar deal for 16ga using BPI 16ga
no slit heavy shot cup and 20ga Lyman. Now we have it
so that 2 Lymans can fit 10,12,16,20,28 ga....Ed



PS- I ask all of you for a favor. Would you please go
to the thehighroad.us forums, join in and support them.
The owner has had original Highroad domain stolen from
him and he is in court to get it back. He is in
the right and if you folks show up there it will help.
And if you can stand it until court rules stay away from
the first highroad and ask your friends to do the same.
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Old January 31, 2009, 07:04 PM   #416
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All I can say is...well..... yea thats all ive got to say. Wow. I am looking all over youtube and I can't find the vid on it. Is there a vid? Is there a link to it?????????????
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Old February 1, 2009, 12:30 AM   #417
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I get it by search term "Grandpa's Cannon"
it worked a while back.ED
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Old February 4, 2009, 12:14 AM   #418
HUBEL458
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Here is 12ga prototype cushioned base sabot I put
together to show how heavy of powder seal
and heavy cushion base that is needed. That
eliminates the blowouts and damage that was
happening to sabots unless I put a card
under sabot. Just used a Brenekke seal/cushion
base, epoxied to bottom of sabot. Even fired one
and it got out the barrel and 437gr slug hit
target straight. Ed

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Old February 7, 2009, 09:39 PM   #419
HUBEL458
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Some 8ga experimenting and info. The 8ga chambers
I have are set up to fire the regular 8ga
size cases, and also REM kiln cases with bases
turned smaller, where the extra short basecup
is formed over the inside cup.Just reduce to the
diameter that it chambers ok and regular case
doesn't expand very much fired in same chamber.
This idea came from UK 8ga hunters that found
it was easier to get kiln cases. Now the other
case in 8ga available is the WIN kiln case and
ones I've seen are only single thickness basecup,
but they have the step formed in them to match
the kiln case belt size. Now you can't turn them
down any to fit my chamber, BUT you can swage
them down .012" in a die with a lttle lube on the
basecup. Examining them they do expand much more
than the doubled up REMs.I fired REMs 4-5 times
with bases expanding .002", the WIN I did
expanded .005" in one shot. I will use
heavier built REMs as they are 70cents
primed and good for 4-5 shots, hairy loads.Ed
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Old February 12, 2009, 01:56 AM   #420
HUBEL458
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I glued up 3 of 12ga prototype sabots. At 25yds( the 50yd range
is in the water and snow) And the three with 437gr .512"
slugs I did one 2" group with peep sights and bad eyes.
Running about 2400 fps from RMC case in the NEF 12GA FH
Shot 3 of my 28ga FH with Lyman 360gr at 2100, from
the Enfield 28GA FH, and got same size group.Real windy
when testing . Going cold and ready to snow again.
Shot a 600 grain Dixie hardened heatreated slug, in Savage
in our long case at 2900 though two-- 1/4" steel plates with
2" of wood between them. Made big hole.Ed
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Old February 12, 2009, 07:25 AM   #421
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We're going to have to find you some elephants to shoot at, Ed.
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Old February 12, 2009, 09:16 AM   #422
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I just want to know when you guys start necking down 20MM shells to fire steel core 223 rounds through the sides of tanks.

I think you should try, even if it is not possible.
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Old February 12, 2009, 05:08 PM   #423
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johnw....careful now, probably shouldn't be saying things like that out loud, even in jest.
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Old February 14, 2009, 11:46 AM   #424
HUBEL458
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A 223/20mm would be a bit overbore. Here is pic of
one necked to 50cal, that Bob Snapp made for a company
testing armour 40 years ago.50 bmg on left for comparison....Ed

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Old February 15, 2009, 10:49 PM   #425
HUBEL458
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Before it got cold again got little more testing done.
I shot 8ga Lyman 900gr wasp-style slug out of
the Enfield at 2350. I made it from heat treated
lead REM kiln gun slugs, and it went through 6 foot
of hardwood slabs in my backstop. Hit target square,
behind chrono, which is great from smoothbore.
It is hollowbase and seems very stable.And real hard.
I shot 3 shot group, with 12ga 525gr Lyman, in 87
smoothbore long barrel levergun, At 25 yards they
all made hole like cloverleaf. Used 3.5" RMC brass, with
Lyman in a WW12-114 shotcup, going 2100.Now my
87 smooth barrel is .722" at muzzle, .726" at breech,
so it gives tight support to shotcup and Lyman slug,
for fairly accurate load.....Ed
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