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Old August 3, 2008, 12:38 AM   #351
HUBEL458
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You'd have to have heavy alloy barrel made for 870.
I'm recommending everyone get 3.5" turned cases from
Rocky Mtn Cartridge as we can't get a large number
of bmg cases with the 12ga size rim added. We figure
RMC cases will get 600gr slugs to 24-2500, in heavy barrel
and/or alloy barrels. But you can reload slugs in 3.5 plastic
with our fast rifle powder loads with a decent length barrel
and get 600 gr to 2100. A better pump for little higher
pressures is the Benelli with turnbolt locking lug bolthead.Ed
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Old August 6, 2008, 10:21 PM   #352
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Here is closeup picture of Rob's 12GA FH Borchardt.
The long brass case shown has one of Rob's 2000
grain solid bore rider 12ga slugs. Ed

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Old August 9, 2008, 01:06 AM   #353
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I got my long 700 HE case chambered barrel
finally in a bmg size action. It is barrel
I locked onto an I-beam and got all the
load developement done over the last couple
years. Max load about 23,000 ft lbs.
It weighs 27 lbs, laminated thumbhole stock,
a max size pad, weighted butt, a reinforced
wrist, recoil barrel ring on front of stock.Ed

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Old August 13, 2008, 06:34 PM   #354
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Here is comparison of my 700HE on the right,
that is in the above big action, with a
700NE on the left and our 12GA FH center.Ed

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Old August 23, 2008, 09:30 PM   #355
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Here is picture of a neat scaled up Sharps replica
that would handle out 12GA FH and my 700HE.
That outside hammer looks great...Ed

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Old August 28, 2008, 10:06 PM   #356
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Here is a pic of a projectile idea Rob had. We will test it later
this fall, It is 12ga bore rider design Body is Aluminum, and it
will have a heavy 50 cal insert in the nose made from tungsten
or similiar metals. In the picture he put a 50 cal bullet in for
show. The insert in the nose will be flush with front of the
AL carrier. It should be stable at slow twists and if built
with back and front same diameter stable in smoothbores.
The long lighter tail-end compared to heavy nose insert
will make it stable. Same principle Brenekke uses. This idea
is being explored to try to get superior penetration
from 12ga, with heavy, hard insert in the nose.Ed

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Old September 3, 2008, 10:27 PM   #357
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Here is another view of my 700HE blaster,
that I got rigged up on an action and stock.
Side view shows action with a aperture sight I
rigged up. Also cases. On left is 700H 3.25" case.
Center my 700HE, what the gun in picture has now.
Good for nearly 23,000 ft lbs, we attained in
a work up in testing with the barrel as a test
barrel with screw on testing receiver....Ed

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Old September 11, 2008, 08:09 PM   #358
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Here is picture of a dart type 12ga slug Rob made. Body
is aluminum, it has a heavy tungsten carbide insert in the
nose. The TC in the nose is about 6 times denser than AL.
Total length is 2.35 inches, weight about 950 gr. The .75" long
insert a real tight type fit. Heat AL, put in insert, cools, locks on.
It is fairly streamlined, yet has wide meplat for penetration
in game. Flat points penetrate straighter in game.
It is hollow inside in the back, behind insert which puts the
center of gravity way up front, it should fly straight even from
a smoothbore. They are fast to make and material
less expense than copper.In pic is a copper and a brass 600
cal slugs for comparison. Dart/slug on right has insert.Ed

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Old September 11, 2008, 08:29 PM   #359
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How about a modern anti-tank rifle? You know, like in WWI. Lets see you put something together that can punch through an M1 Abrams
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Old September 13, 2008, 02:23 PM   #360
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Well Abrams have so much thicker, higher strength armor,
that you can't puncture with any conventional non-explosive,
non-rocket projectile, from a shoulder fired gun.
Even WW2 bazookas won't hardly bother an Abrams. Ed
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Old September 13, 2008, 09:54 PM   #361
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Well, "God Rods" are kinetic energy weapons with the effect of small tactical nuke, so it certainly can be done.
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Old September 14, 2008, 11:57 PM   #362
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Here are more samples of nice slugs.....Here is pic of the
ones RG Henson sent. Jacketed 12ga. 715gr hollowpoints,
on the right and in front a jkt 675gr hollowbase.
RG's number 1-770-366-4846. These will be great for
shorter plastic and brass cases as well as long cases.
Other slugs in pic, in the back, left to right
Foster 436gr- Dixie 600gr- 750gr brass- my 750gr hollowbase
brass, and a hollowpoint I put a filler in the nose.Ed

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Old September 16, 2008, 10:10 PM   #363
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Two other 12ga slugs RG may do later on are full
jacketed ones. If interested in the hp one above
contact him at number above. He has to do a bunch
of them to get ahead to do others.And they will be
a fantastic deer, hog, bear slug. He is in Georgia.
Also, any of you who might want some of the 12GA FH
brass cases made from BMG brass, we have the fellow who
had the idea about the 12GA FH first, Rob on AR forum,
is planning on making them. He has got the machines to do
it now, that we didn't have before. Let me know how many
you are interested in getting, so he can plan and figure
the best price. He has a bunch of BMG cases to start with,
he and I have places to get more.I'm posting this all over.Ed
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Old September 27, 2008, 10:57 PM   #364
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Testing 715gr jacketed hollowpoint from RG Henson in Savage 210.
With 30 inch barrel, long brass 3.85" case, big primer.
Slightly hairy load 290gr RL22--2700 fps. Shot moderate load
of 300gr W-860 -- 2400 fps for 3 shot group of 3" at 50
yards with my bad eyes and peep sights. They shoot nice, they go
into target straight.. Other nice thing the price from RG,
for customers getting in on his first run, $1.25 plus shipping.
That is less than half of what other big bore jkt bullets cost.
Call him for some great slugs. They are great like
the Dixie slugs. Ed
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Old October 1, 2008, 09:38 PM   #365
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Lookee what another santa sent me.
A regular BMG case on the left, and
a straight BMG case on the right, and it
CAME FROM THE MANUFACTURER THAT WAY.

It is primer cartridge for large guns and howitzers.
It is used in those guns/cannons that have powder in big bags.
It is filled with powder and inserted into cannon breach and
when fired sets off the larger charge. On some cannon breaches
they have an automatic feed for these with a huge 40 round
drum magazine. This on is marked IVI 89 C67. IVI is Canadian.
On these breaches it is held by collet fingers for head space
and for ejection.

Ok, there are many thousands more of these out there than the
PROP cases I showed before. We need to find few barrels of these
and have Rob, etal, put on rims.... no annealing.....no fireforming,
just slight resize to 12GA FH. Please help if you know of any.
They would save so much work and time..And even though fired
the bases are perfectly straight, another plus.....Ed

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Old October 5, 2008, 09:58 PM   #366
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Here is a picture of RG's jacketed 715gr slugs in various
loads.First are 2.75" and 3" factory foster slugs\ for
comparison. 3rd is jkt HP in 3.5" plastic case, 4th in a
3" brass RMC case. 5th in a 3.5" brass case with small
primer, 6th in our long brass 3.85" case, big primer.
Top hairy load in long case in Savage, 2900..Ed

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Old October 12, 2008, 08:52 PM   #367
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Please notice in the picture above, cases loaded with
the 715 gr jacketed slugs the 3rd and 4th ones.
They both have same 90gr of 4227, same number of
wads shoot at 1700 in 24" NEF barrel. 3rd plastic is
3.5" case, the 4th brass is a 3" RMC. Both have shotgun
primers.The 5th longer case is a 3.5" strong
brass one I made from a PROP case, and when I put
in primer bushing, I set it up for shotgun primer. I
will test it with 4227 powder, 600gr and 715 gr slugs.
Also in a couple months Rob who's idea the 12GA FH
was will be able to deliver the super strong 12GA FH
cases made from BMG brass. And the they will be
headstamped, all done by his CNC machine.Ed

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Old October 12, 2008, 10:54 PM   #368
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Quote: "Well Abrams have so much thicker, higher strength armor,
that you can't puncture with any conventional non-explosive,
non-rocket projectile, from a shoulder fired gun.
Even WW2 bazookas won't hardly bother an Abrams. Ed"

Such a weapon is already being used against our tanks and armor in Iraq and Afghanistan. Although it is not really considered a conventional shoulder fired projectile it can certainly be fired from a bipod or mount. It's not really an explosive and it's not really a gun either. It is somewhere in between. It's basically a metal tube packed with a charge and a primer. The projectile itself is just a big chunk of copper made into a slug. So they set up the device, pack the charge, load the copper slug in there and point it at any tank rolling down the road, and set it off. You want to talk about devestating? That copper slug has so much thermal energy when it hits the armor that it litteraly melts it's way through the armor. It turns everything inside the tank into a milkshake or slushy because when it exits out the other side it leaves all it's thermal and kinetic energy in the tank. It is very nasty, and very effective at defeating armor.
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Old October 12, 2008, 11:08 PM   #369
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That's an EFP, there are no tubes involved. It's a dish-shaped sheet of copper backed with explosives. The copper is formed into a big blob-dart traveling at very high speed when the explosives fire.

You can't get that kind of velocity with conventional powder, you need high explosives.
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Old October 14, 2008, 02:36 AM   #370
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The difference is the speed of the powder when it
detonates. The high explosives in an EFP have a shock
wave speed of 20-30,000 fps. Propellants used in cartridges
about 4500-5000 fps.Ed
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Old October 14, 2008, 08:31 PM   #371
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RIP on AR Big bore forum is doing 835 Mossy and 1400gr Darwin slugs.
A 14.5 pound Ulti-Mag. The hollow part of the butt is filled with about 5.5 lbs of lead shot and epoxy. Has 4X Sightron in QRW rings. Do 3.5" plastic hulls with the Darwin in it first. It balances on the trigger. Loading the magazine with 4 and one up the spout will add about 1.25 pounds if the 5 rounds are "Darwins," and move the balance point to the front of the triggerguard.
It is heavier rifled 24" chromoly alloy barrel.

Brett in MN has Mossy 835, only with smoothbore barrel and gets
1oz finned plastic tail Ballistic Products slug to 2300 fps,
using shotgun powder.



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Old October 17, 2008, 10:37 PM   #372
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Still testing 8ga I have setup in the Enfield.
It has a long smooth barrel. Those 8ga
heavy plastic cases are great. Fire them 4 times with
no resizing. Here is pic of slugs used in 8ga..
One and two are 1015gr hollowbase. Three and 4 are
875gr hollowbase. On four the cushion base is cut off
so I can use card wad and have more room for
powder.Ed

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Old October 21, 2008, 04:21 AM   #373
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We got our RMC 3.5" brass 12ga cases. These are turned
cases using shotgun primer. They have nice thick base,
and a good radius in the corner. Got a Brenekke OK 437 gr
slug to 2800 fps, a 540gr Hammerhead slug to 2450. got 600gr
Dixie to 2300, the 715gr RG jacketed to 2130, and a 1400gr
Darwin to 1400 plus. Tested in NEF. Shot one case 15 times
and still going strong, tight primer, with loads running about
20- 24,000 psi.I have pics of cases soon, and we also will
test these brass ones and 3.5" plastic in 12ga Encore
Prohunter..Ed
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Old October 25, 2008, 11:29 PM   #374
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Here is picture of RMC 3.5" cases with variety of slugs,
locked on wad slugs and sabots. There are 3 of our long cases
in back for comparison. The RMC turned cases have shotgun
primer. Case # 4 has 437gr slug in BPI SABOT( finally hard sabots
in 12ga for reloading), #5 437gr Brenekke KO slug, #6 540gr
Hammerhead slug, #7 600gr Dixie hard slug, #8 RG's 715gr
jacketed, #9 750gr solid brass. Ed

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Old November 1, 2008, 06:35 PM   #375
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Here is picture of a 12ga hard discarding sabot you can get
for reloading, the BPI. From Ballistic products. In picture
is sabot with a 437gr Hornady Great Plains 50cal slug I put
in it. Also the 410 gr and 385gr Great Plains work.
Finally able to load your own instead of paying 3-5 bucks
each for loaded rounds.You can use the 500 S&W bullets also
as well as shorter 50 cal blackpowder slugs... Ed

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