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Old March 30, 2008, 09:11 PM   #326
HUBEL458
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THE 8GA FH BELLERED TODAY. It is in Enfield I rigged with
rear locking bolt lugs. 32" barrel, tested 3.3" plastic cases.
Cases are the REM kiln gun cases. With the double cup base.
I shaved base a little so that chamber will fire these as well as
regular 8ga plastic. None of the firing today expanded base cups
at all, so they are real strong cases. Started testing to check
ignition with shotgun primers and to see if cases are any
good. Starting with a 110 gr mouse ball, wad under it, and 150 gr
of Blue Dot, about 5000 fps.. Gun didn't even recoil.Then a
410 gr one at 3000 fps, Then a 770 gr hollowbase slug in a wadcup
up to 2000 so far with 180gr of 7383. Barrel is smoothbore. 832"
bore at the muzzle. Ed
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Old March 30, 2008, 09:40 PM   #327
B. Lahey
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Mouse ball?

Is it hollow? I'm trying to picture a 110gr 8ga lead ball, but I'm not having much luck...

Is it plastic or something?
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Old March 30, 2008, 11:56 PM   #328
HUBEL458
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It is hard rubber computer mouse ball. The heavier 410 gr one has
steel ball inside. It was just something lighter than lead to start
load and gun testing with. Ed
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Old April 4, 2008, 01:23 AM   #329
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Some 8GA FH testing- using IMR 4759, 770 gr slug,
top load of 140 gr, got 2500 fps......
Over 10,000 ft lbs..Cases extract easy.
The plastic in 8ga case is twice as thick as
in 12ga cases. Tried 4227 and case is too large
diameter for dependable ignition.So it's
old dependable 4759..Ed
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Old April 7, 2008, 11:00 PM   #330
HUBEL458
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Here is picture of Enfield 8GA FH. You can see plastic case
in the port. Box of cases behind, 770 gr and 1050 gr
slugs in front with the 8ga wadcups I use.
Left two slugs are 1050 gr made from 3 oz kiln slugs.
I rounded nose and put in hollow base. Also the
cards and fiber wads used. Slugs are hollowbase, as
it is smooth bore barrel. Ed


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Old April 14, 2008, 02:28 AM   #331
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In picture of the 8ga bolt action you can see the
ring I put on front of bolt to support large diameter
8ga casehead. It is suported against thrust by the
front lugs, and total bolt thrust is supported by rear
lugs and have taken the heavy loads ok.. Ed
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Old April 14, 2008, 12:12 PM   #332
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...thats.......AWESOME.........
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Old April 21, 2008, 09:49 PM   #333
HUBEL458
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Here is picture on left of the 12ga hollowpoint slug
with plastic tip. Makes it streamlined, good for 300yds.
And still will expand good thin skinned game-deer.
I put tip in with glue gun in few seconds, and
shaped a point on it with trim knife. Ed

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Old April 25, 2008, 11:27 AM   #334
HUBEL458
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I also have two other cartridges with my name
on them that I am promoting. They are my 700HE
and my 585BHE. They both belted straight cases.
Montana Rifle company is coming out with their
big PH action and some guys will be doing my
cases in them.

Info on the 585BHE. It will work in
any gun that handles 505 Gibbs like Enfield, CZ,
Ruger,etc.Mine is in Enfield.Here is picture of
of one next to Trex. And mine holds 15gr more
powder than that Trex case. 585BHE will do 750
grain from 1800 to 2800 fps in my Enfield.

Anyone interested setting up a gun, contact me
I will furnish reamer and 15 free cases. Cases are
headstamped. When done return reamer to me, for
the next guy. I will keep them sharpened. After a
few guys have guns we all will get together with
others wanting some and get a run of brass made.
I'd like guys to ask for reamer when gun is going
to be ready to chamber, that way reamers get the
most guns done in shortest time.Ed

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Old May 1, 2008, 12:28 AM   #335
HUBEL458
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On Fri May 2 8pm on the Science Channel ,they will have
an article about the heavy barrel cannons that shoot
the brass cases for bomb disposal.They are the same as
our 12GA FH case,when resized in my dies and are shown
in this thread a couple months back in picture.
It will show them using them for bomb disposal. Ed
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Old May 6, 2008, 09:51 PM   #336
HUBEL458
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Testing 8GA FH in Enfield, 1050 gr slug in wad cup, 120 gr
of 4759, over 2000 fps. Cases extract easy. Hardly any
base cup expansion...Ed
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Old May 11, 2008, 11:44 PM   #337
HUBEL458
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Here is picture of a sectioned 8ga plastic case
showing how heavy and strong it is built. The
plastic is one piece compressioned formed and
the sides of the cases are twice as thick as
12ga cases.You can see the double thickness
of the base cup. Ed

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Old May 21, 2008, 07:18 PM   #338
HUBEL458
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Here is picture of the bolt setup for the 8ga
Enfield we did.Also comparison to a Mauser
12ga shotgun bolt conversion, from which
I got the concept. Ed

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Old May 30, 2008, 11:10 PM   #339
HUBEL458
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I was asked how I got 8ga heavy barrel so quick.
First it is smoothbore, second a 110 bucks total shipping and all.
First I bought a 1.5 inch dia 4130 alloy, heat treated, shaft,
32" long. Then I had a deep hole drilling company drill
a .832" hole in it. Came out centered on both ends.
Then after it got here I used cylinder hone to polish
the inside of the bore. Threaded it, chambered it, and put
in the Enfield bolt action. The heat treating it had was just like
the barrel stock that barrel guys get. Ed.
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Old June 11, 2008, 11:14 PM   #340
HUBEL458
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For those wanting to see video of the 12GA FH in
the Savage busting big pail of water, one of the
kids posted it on Youtube- Titled "Grampa's Cannon".
I just found out that it is on there.
This was the video that the still pictures posted
before, was takem from. They have the sound
muted so as not to hurt camera sound system. Ed
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Old June 17, 2008, 01:52 AM   #341
HUBEL458
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Load of 12 triple ought buckshot in 8ga. They are
70gr each, total 840 gr, and over 2000 fps with
125 gr of 4759. Ed
Here is URL for the waterpail busting video above--
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUNHszY4ACM
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Old June 17, 2008, 04:16 AM   #342
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@ Hubel,

maybe you should jump to blackpowder too to see what you can do there.
I'll get a rifle soon which can shoot a 1'' lead ball weighing approx. 1500 grain with a load of 250grain 2FG blackpowder @ 1500 fp/s out of the 54'' barrel - which makes 7500 ft/lbs, but the guns weighs 34 pounds to not kill the shooter with the recoil. (BP recoils more)
You can get pretty decent big-bore stuff with traditional muzzleloader rifles, and this is as close as you can get if you want a cannon with a buttstock which can be carried and fired by one man.

Currently I am shooting cal .69 730 grain conicals @ 1250 fp/s out of my M1847 for target work, still powerful and the deep thunder it generates is gorgeous.

Great work you're doing here!
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Old June 20, 2008, 06:49 PM   #343
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8 gauge industrial magnum shell with a 3 oz(1312.5 grains)slug has a typical muzzle velocity of about 1744 feet per second and a muzzle energy of about 8,863 foot pounds.

http://www.ballisticproducts.com/ 8ga wads
Ballistic Products Inc. 0000 Super Buckshot about 18rds in a 3.25in
built a 30lb 36in barrel 8ga single shot a few years ago from a nef 12ga parts and scrap metal and an .84in ID 1.5in OD pipe in a 14in long sleeve
had to make a stronger lower receiver moved the serial number
3in silicon buttpad on a fiberglass stock
it was heavy and ugly but worked
recoil and noise was worse than a 50bmg
no1 want to be near you at the range
too heavy for hunting and not legal for waterfowl in the US
slugs kicked much worse than buckshot
NEF 12ga $70 other parts $100 sold for $250 to a friend
wasnt worth the time building i did learn to weld better
8ga 3.25in ind mag ammo is hard to find and not cheap
remington SP8 MAG 3 Oz. Lead was what i start with
wish building a 50bmg was in my budget
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Old June 20, 2008, 11:00 PM   #344
HUBEL458
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It isn't bad loading for it now, Primed new cases 70 cents at
BP, and roll crimper for slugs, and use wad cups from BP.
Use 3 oz slugs as is or hollowbase them and give them round
nose, And I also use 10ga 770 gr slug in cups, I just expand
them a little, as they have hollowbase.And you can casrt also.
And on most loads base cups don't expand so you can iron
out the mouth and reload a few times. Ed.
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Old June 24, 2008, 01:11 AM   #345
HUBEL458
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There are now two videos of 12GA FH on YouTube,
exploding big heavy walled pails of water.
The "Grampa's Cannon" one with a long view,
and "Grandpa's First Shot" a closeup video,
the first one, that shows how the top of heavy
shelf got bent. Later kids will do videos showing
muzzle blast and recoil.
Also the 3 ought buckshot from the 8ga load
above goes through 2" hardwood ok. I will test
8ga on waterpail also, to see what happens. Ed
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Old June 29, 2008, 10:12 AM   #346
HUBEL458
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I've got extra 28ga alloy rifled barrel now.
So along with first one in Enfield I will be doing one
in Mossberg 695 bolt action. Will add a little weight
to the stock and one of kids will see how it does on
deer this fall.Ed

Oh here is URL of the Grandpa's First Shot Video--
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c48zTpsgbuk
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Old July 3, 2008, 09:24 PM   #347
HUBEL458
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Here is pic of Mossberg 695 that will be the
second 28GA From Hell.You can see long
brass case in the port. Ed

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Old July 12, 2008, 10:05 PM   #348
HUBEL458
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Somebody suggested this picture to show the
difference between shotgun powder, factory loads
and our loads in plastic and brass as it relates to
increased powder capacity. Factory 3rd case with
small amount of powder(more wads), 2nd case plastic with
larger amount(less wads), 1st, brass case all powder.
This allows us more volume of slower powder.
Also the Videos, 'Grandpa's Cannon', 'Grandpa's First
Shot', are heading up to 3000 views on Youtube.
Any of you who could pass info about thre videos out
over the net, I'd appreciate it. Ed


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Old July 30, 2008, 11:41 PM   #349
HUBEL458
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Ok, the fellow who is making the 12ga jacketed hollowpoints
just got all his dies and has a 1000 cups coming for a 1000
bullets. These I pictured before and they will work great
for rifled barrels. Wt will be about 720gr. Ed
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Old July 31, 2008, 08:22 PM   #350
laea7777
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12 gauge 3 1/2" rifled/sabot slugs (?), etc.

Hello Mr. Hubel,

I find your posts fascinating and inspiring, though I must confess I haven't had time to read all of them yet, so I apologize if you have already answered my questions in a previous post.

I am new to the Firing Line forum. I was directed here based on a question I posted in a Gun Owners group on MySpace regarding maximizing the ballistic potential of a 12 gauge pump shotgun while still retaining its versatility (as compared to a rifle).

Are you aware of any companies producing 3 1/2" (super magnum) rifled and/or sabot slugs in 12 gauge? I've found only 2 3/4" and 3" slugs.

I like your idea of using the brass casing from a .50 BMG. I wasn't aware that they were the same diameter as 12 gauge. Would such a cartridge (shortened to 3 1/2") work in a factory Remington 870 28" super magnum barrel, or is it too thin? If it's too thin, are you aware of any companies that produce a heavier barrel for the 870 that would tolerate a brass casing packed full of powder?

Also, I take it that getting a rifled barrel is a good starting point, as the sabot slugs in a rifled barrel generally outperform the rifled slugs through a smooth barrel (please correct me if I'm wrong). I believe Remington makes a 20" rifled 'deer slug' barrel, but I think it only chambers up to a 2 3/4" or 3" casing, though I can't find it on their website now.

I'm just curious about hypothetically maximizing the ballistic potential of a Remington 870.

Here is an excerpt from my other post:

"It seems to me, judging by the size of a 3 1/2" 12 gauge cartridge (compared to a .577 Nitro, for instance), that if it were made out of brass, packed full of powder, with a 600 grain .727" slug, that one could take an elephant [at close range]. I’m guessing that the overall weight of the firearm and the thickness of the chamber and barrel is just too small on a typical pump shotgun to tolerate this level of pressure. Or is there something about the brass that would negate a pump shotgun’s reliability? I know some manufacturers do produce brass shotgun cartridges, but it definitely is not common."

Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks!

-Luke

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