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Old January 27, 2006, 07:47 PM   #26
MeekAndMild
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I know this is going to bring down some flames but I'll go ahead and say it.

I got back into deer hunting 7-8 years ago and have made it a point to look for the perfect deer rifle. I used a 270 then went through a Marlin phase then found a lightweight Savage .243. I thought the .243 was perfect until I got my 6.5 Grendel Hunter. The Grendel is the perfect deer rifle/cartridge combination.

Back on topic:
Little Meek likes the .243. He probably outweighs your daughter by a hundred pounds and stands maybe a foot taller but he doesn't consider the gun nor cartridge to be 'too small'. If you worry about recoil, one old trick is to have the kid practice with the 85 grain then the parent checks and adjusts the sight-in with 100 grain (very minimal difference at 100 yards and probably won't need changing). Kid will be too excited to notice the recoil difference in the 1 or 2 shots they take while hunting.
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Old January 28, 2006, 04:31 PM   #27
shureshot0471
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If scared about recoil go with a .223 .25-06 .204 smaller the better .220 swift all of these are great guns with low recoil heck my .243 hardley kicks at all anways it should be fine
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Old January 28, 2006, 04:42 PM   #28
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let the flaming begin
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Old January 28, 2006, 05:04 PM   #29
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Quote:
If scared about recoil go with a .223 .25-06 .204 smaller the better .220 swift all of these are great guns with low recoil
.223, .25-06, .220 Swift, OK, but .204 Ruger for deer?

Seriously, even the .223 is highly debatable, but I don't know if I'd use a .204 on coyotes. That's only a 40 grain bullet, max.
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Old January 28, 2006, 05:37 PM   #30
youp
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A recoil jacket may increase the length of pull too much for her.

No flaming here. You can use all the woodchuck rounds you want
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Old January 28, 2006, 05:54 PM   #31
Wisby
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Call me Crazy but my friends grandma.. A very small framed woman shoots a few deer every year with a 22-250, I've never shot one but she says it hardlly kicks at all. Something else I have noticed is for some reason Browning's seem to kick less in the same Caliber, I can not explain it or maybe it's mental but my dads Brownings Stainless Stalker .270 kicks less then my brothers Remington 700 .270 and my Ruger .280.
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Old January 29, 2006, 10:52 AM   #32
Wild Bill Bucks
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I agree with Tycross, 223 and 204 are really not good calibers for Deer.
Even though a .204 and a .243 are almost Identical in trajectory out to 300 yards. The.204 is still sizzling at 300 yards but is loseing energy, and has about 200 ft lbs. less than the .243 at that range (525ft lbs. VS 735 ft lbs.)

A.223 and .204 are both extremly good coyote guns, but I would not use either of them on deer sized game.
The last thing you want a youngster to do is get the idea they can loose animals they have shot because of to small a caliber. Go with the .243 and practice, practice, practice, so they can get a good neck shot or well placed heart shot. Stay away from calibers to small for the game they are hunting as it is very depressing to a hunter (especially younger ones) to sit all day waiting on that one good shot, and not be able to take it home and brag a little.

Going home with the game is as important to a younger person as the actual hunting is.
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Old January 29, 2006, 11:08 AM   #33
Twycross
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Quote:
and has about 200 ft lbs. less than the .243 at that range (525ft lbs. VS 735 ft lbs.)
There's a little more disparity than that. .243, in a heavier (95-100 grain) bullet has about 1200 ft/lbs at 300 yards, while the .204 40 grainers have around 675 ft/lb, and then drops to 512 ft/lb in a 32 grain bullet. At least in the Hornady loads.

.243 energy does drop down to the 700-800 ft/lb levels, but only in the 55-60 grain varmint loads.
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Old January 29, 2006, 11:16 AM   #34
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Desertfox,

I am in the same boat as you in regards to a daughter wanting to get started in hunting/shooting. My little girl is very slight build as well. Here is what my research came up with.

There are several companies that sell youth rifles in short action cartridges that work well for deer hunting. The one I chose was a Weatherby youth in .243. The youth model comes with 2 stocks (child size and adult) as well as a proof target (mine showed 3-shot 100 yard accuracy of 3/4"). I looked at the Savage youth and Remington youth models as well. Both were fine firearms with great accuracy, however neither offered the additional stock.

As for the .243 performance on deer, one thing most folks appear to be overlooking is the size of the deer you are hunting in OK. Being a Florida transplant (thanks to the USAF) with hunting experience in a few states, OK deer are very much the same size as our Florida deer, which is to say small. We are not talking about large bodied whitetails or mulies in the northern states where I would agree .243 may be a little light. I hunted for many years with folks who hunted not only Florida deer but wild hogs as well, and every shot placed into the vitals with 85 grain bullets or larger always resulted in a quick kill. Also, availability of .243 ammo may be better than some other cartridges (like .257 Roberts, 7mm08, 25-06) due to its prolific nature assuming you are not living next to a large sporting goods store that carries ammo for every caliber in the book.

.243 recoil is light and it sounds like it would match her build. I personally shoot a .308 and would not put my daughter behind it. It kicks just a little too much with 150 gr hunting rounds for her size.

All the calibers mentioned will put deer down, no question. The lighter calibers (.223, etc) requires more skill that your daughter probably has not developed yet in order to get correct shot placement.

Good luck with your search.
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Old January 29, 2006, 12:18 PM   #35
Wild Bill Bucks
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Your right Ty,

Got on the wrong line when I looked them up. Probably need to get my head out of my A-- before posting.
Sorry about the wrong info.
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Old January 29, 2006, 01:21 PM   #36
beenthere
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Girls gun

My 80 lb., 9 year old, grand daughter shoots my fathers Rem 600 in 243 with no problem. It's a small rifle with an 18 1/2 inch barrel and is pretty loud with that short barrel. By the time you put a scope on it and add a pound in weight it puts it at 7 1/4 pounds. I don't think she would do well with a heavier rifle just hefting it around.

Use muffs while practicing and she won't have any problem. Your daughter may be stronger and handle more weight okay but you have to judge that.

If you go with the 243 stick to bullets around 100 grains. Sighted at 150 yards you can shoot out to 175 - 200 yards without any allowance, but I'd recommend setting up for a 125 - 150 yard shot max. if possible for a first timer.

If you go with the 30/30 scoped the recoil will be about the same and again try to keep shots under 150 yards.

Make sure she snuggles the gun in nice and tight so the recoil doesn't get a running start at her.

Marksmanship is the key so the NEF single shot will do the job on the deer. If you put the first one where it should be you won't need the quick follow up shot. The NEF will probably be a pound or so lighter so there will be a little more recoil.
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Old January 29, 2006, 03:28 PM   #37
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This little jewel is a Glenfield 30GT in 30-30 and has put a lot of meat on our table. Recoil is easy to take especially with the thick Pachmeyer pad. Barrel is only 18.5 inches long for easy carrying all day even in rough country.

30-30 is a keeper!
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Old January 29, 2006, 10:33 PM   #38
Desertfox
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Ok the practice shoot is set up. I borrowed the .243 and .308. I have time to go find ammo. My questions are these now:

.308 120 gr.?
.243 100 gr.?
30-30 140 gr.?
and what type of rounds. Ballistic or partician?
Is there any way to down-size my .270 WSM rounds for her use, or is that rediculous? Thanks for the help.
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Old January 29, 2006, 11:45 PM   #39
Fremmer
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150 grain for the .308; 95 or 100 grain .243. I can't tell you about the .30-30.

This is only a 'practice shoot' to see how she handles the recoil. So save yourself some money and buy one box of Remington Core-Lokt soft-points for each caliber. It is inexpensive, and usually shoots fairly well through most guns. And when it goes through a deer, the Core-Lokt will perform just as well as the more expensive rounds that you're talking about. You can try out different brands and loads of ammo after she has picked the caliber.

Notice how I said, "after SHE has picked the caliber." Don't let anyone pressure her to pick one round over the other. If she says she is most comfortable with the .243, then that should be the choice.

Better to have an accurate shot with a .243 than a flinch from a 308.
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Old January 30, 2006, 03:34 AM   #40
Twycross
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Quote:
This is only a 'practice shoot' to see how she handles the recoil. So save yourself some money and buy one box of Remington Core-Lokt soft-points for each caliber.
+1. Unless you are sighting in, just buy the cheapest stuff you can find. I don't think .270 WSM is in the Core-Lokt line, but I could be wrong, and if it's not, Winchester Powerpoints should be equally cheap.
Quote:
Is there any way to down-size my .270 WSM rounds for her use, or is that rediculous?
That's a good idea, but with the limited availablity of ammunition for the WSM calibers, I don't know of any reduced loads unless you roll your own. Remington has a reduced recoil line, which you might look at for the .308, though.
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Old January 30, 2006, 05:28 AM   #41
youp
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30-30 150 gr will be fine. Keep the sessions short, it is better to go back than to over do it and develope flinches and a general dislike of high power rifle shooting. IMO recoil and muzzle blast are unpleasant sensations that become more and more fun as a shooter gets used to it and sees results. Best of luck with her, I think you are going about it the right way. Keep it fun.
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Old January 30, 2006, 07:45 AM   #42
raktrak
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First rifle for a Lady

I bought my son a 243 Model 7 Remington. He loves it and has never had one move out of its tracks. We shoot right behind the shoulder about a third of the way up the rib cage and boy it does a job inside the rib cage. MUSH The young Lady will like the weight and with a limb saver recoil pad, she won't notice the recoil.
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Old January 30, 2006, 02:43 PM   #43
Gary Conner
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Ain't it a wonderful thing that first, he is teaching his daughter how to hunt, and doing it darned seriously?

And secondly, ain't it great she not only hunts, but also gets involved in field dressing and quartering out her own game meat?
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Old February 4, 2006, 07:10 PM   #44
Desertfox
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ok, the practice shoot went..... not as planned. She was having trouble learning how to shoot with a scope and how to see and not flinch.

practice abandoned for a day.

Went to Wal-Mart and bought a remmington 587 in .22. (mossyoak camo)
a cheap scope and a box of rounds.

Practice session number two. 70 shots later she is putting rounds in a 5 inch circle at 100 yards with the .22. (I purchased a black stick on target that turns green where the round penetrates it.)

She shoots 5 times and runs down the range to see the target holes. Ok so now I can't smack the grin off of her face.

Move to the 30-30 marlin (it is the only rifle that fits her comfortably)

9 shots later, she is sighted in to a half dollar circle on the target at 50 yards. She likes it but I figured this is enough for the day.

The Marlin is a lever action 30-30 with a Nikon Prostaff 3-9 X 40 scope. She has adopted it. Tomorrow after church, round 2.

After much ado about the other rifles, she landed on the 30-30. I thank every one of you for your input. Wish us luck this fall on her first deer.
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Old February 5, 2006, 12:08 PM   #45
taylorce1
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DF, let us know how the hunt turns out! Thank you for bringing another Hunter to the fold.
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Old February 5, 2006, 12:18 PM   #46
Eghad
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.243 is plenty for whitetail deer.
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Old February 5, 2006, 01:34 PM   #47
Foxman
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Real glad she is taking to it, 30-30 will do what she wants and if she gets real keen get her a 6.5x55, low recoil, more than enough killing power and doesnt have the sharp crack of the 243/25-06. It will kill anything except brown bear ( you really need more energy on those) for her. But if she is happy and shooting well that is perfect.
My daughter learnt on my 222 centerfire and when she goes with me she grabs the 6.5x55 and leaves me the 270! which I like anyway luckily.
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Old February 17, 2006, 03:45 AM   #48
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My Daughter Started Hunting At 12.i Got Her A Winchester Model 70 Mini Carbine In .243.beautiful Little Gun Bought It Off A Friend.
Stay With Something With A Short Action More Compact Rifle.that Way She Won,t Have The Burden Of Lugging Around A Large Gun.she Will Love You For It.i Am Also Looking For Another .243 For My Second Daughter Who Will Be 12 This Year.good Luck And Happy Hunting.


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Old February 17, 2006, 04:35 AM   #49
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A big plus 1 for the Foxman.

If you want what I would consider a relatively low cost but highly effective rifle for a beginning shooter for deer, you would be hard pressed to beat a good Swedish Mauser in 6.5x55. Excellent, accurate round with little recoil. Replace the rear sight assembly with a B-Square mount (no smithing) and install a 4x IER scope, and you have the best of both worlds: a precision grade rifle with a reflex-type sight setup that will allow precise bullet placement out to about 150 yards. Add to that, that you can usually find a good Swedish Mauser for around 300 or so, and you're set.
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Old February 17, 2006, 01:29 PM   #50
ralfsmith
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Oh its very interesting. Could you provide me more information ?

johntvery@operamail.com

johntvery@hotmail.com
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