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Old January 25, 2006, 03:12 AM   #1
ricecracker
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100 yards w/ a standard 9mm

okay, so last weekend I went out to the range wiht some friends. WE all brought our pistols, but I've got my pet little .17 that I've been working on, so after we'd thrown enough money down the pistol range, I drug us all out to the 100yard range. semi-cold day, 3 guys, 1 gun. Suddenly I recalled a magazine article I recently thumbed through mentioning 100+yard shot tests with fairly stock glocks and 1911's. I figure, "why not" and run up a large (18"') target. Get back to the shooting area, and to my delight/suprise/astonishment with my first clip through my Baby eagle managed to put 12 of 16 on the paper (roughly a 2' square) This was done prone from the concrete floor around the benches with STOCK COMBAT SIGHTS. Amazingly enough, point of aim was EXACTLY the same as it is for normal pistol shooting distances. in the picture the target was placed on the board to the left. I linedup my sights, and had it to where I could JUST see some daylight between the top of my sights and the bottom of the board.


We then all fought over the remains of the last box of 9mm ammo, but unfortunately couldn't find the board again with any of our other pistols. I don't attribute this to the accuracy of the baby, mostly just a matter of not knowing where generally to be aiming elevation-wise.

Perhaps this is nothing new, but to me I was rather shocked that such long-range accuracy could be achieved with a standard close-quarters-oriented firearm. Anyone else around here go long with their handguns?
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Old January 25, 2006, 03:25 AM   #2
johndavid400
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my buddy shoots long distance with his P99 9mm. He bought about an 18" square piece of 1/4" thick steel and I welded a rod onto the plate for him. He sets it up at 100 yards and goes at it. He usually hits that thing about 8 or 9 times out of 10. And every time he hits it, you hear it go "DING"... so its pretty cool to know that you hit it immediately after you shoot without having to go look.


- He actually also has a Baby Eagle 9mm that I sold him... don't know if he does long distance shooting with that one... he is pretty attatched to that P99.
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Old January 25, 2006, 09:16 AM   #3
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I just bought an EAA Witness 9MM that one of my friends was shooting a milk jug with at 110 yards. 18/20 times hit. This was with no optics. Needless to say, I was VERY impressed. Personally, I think I hit the milk jug 1-2 times out of about 30 rounds I threw at that thing.
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Old January 25, 2006, 09:47 AM   #4
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saw a guy hit the gong with an accuraize 45 at 100 yds
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Old January 25, 2006, 10:37 AM   #5
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Guys, 100 yards is just not that far for a pistol. With the exception of 25's and maybe 32's, ANY handgun is capable of decent accuracy at 100 yards. It;s fun to get out and see just how far you can shoot accurately with a handgun. TRy going out sometime where you can shhot across a big meadow or across a canyon and see how close you can get at 200, 500 yards or more. No, you won't get rifle-type accuracy but you'll be amazed at just how close you can get.
Time before last that I went to Front Sight, I took the advanced tactical class. We went out and shot off of Snipers Point where there are steel man-sized silhouettes out to 600 yards. I found that I could ring the 250 yard silhouette with monotonous regularity with my G22.
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Old January 25, 2006, 11:49 AM   #6
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The FIRST time I ever shot a handgun@100yds(Mil-spec Springfield 1911 ,45ACP) I shot prone and used the head of a body target as my POA. 8 rounds clustered in an 8" group in the chest area.
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Old January 25, 2006, 12:06 PM   #7
stephen426
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Dessert Scout,

What kind of guns do you have in your collection? 100 yards is pretty darn far for a combat pistol, especially when you use open sights. I'm sure most people will agree that Les Baer makes an excellent gun and the only guarantee that their pistols will do 3 inches at 50 yards. At 100 yards, you double that to 6 inches. Lets not even mention the environmental factors such as wind and mirages (from heat). Ed Brown claims his target guns are capable of 1.5 inch groups at 50 yards which is 3 inches at 100 yards (again ignoring wind). That is pretty impressive considering their prices seem very reasonable for a custom gun.

Now if you are talking about target .22's, they are capable of some crazy accuracy. .22 are more susceptable to wind but on a calm day with match ammo, I'm pretty sure some crazy accuracy is possible.

I just hope these kinds of distances are being done at the range rather than hunting (unless you have a scope or a Thomson Contender type handgun) and heaven forbid, self defense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Desert Scout
TRy going out sometime where you can shhot across a big meadow or across a canyon and see how close you can get at 200, 500 yards or more
Desert Scout, don't forget to mention being aware of what of what is behind your target. Few people can see that far.
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Old January 25, 2006, 02:48 PM   #8
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Quote:
What kind of guns do you have in your collection? 100 yards is pretty darn far for a combat pistol, especially when you use open sights.
I have anumber of handguns, both semi's and revolvers but, for the purpose of this thread, I was talking mainly about my Glocks

Quote:
I'm sure most people will agree that Les Baer makes an excellent gun and the only guarantee that their pistols will do 3 inches at 50 yards. At 100 yards, you double that to 6 inches.
Accuracy is relative. If you're really trying to impress people, sometimes it takes putting holes really close together on a piece of paper. Practically speaking, if you can keep your shots from a service pistol CONSISTENTLY in about 12" at 100 yds, you're doing pretty well. When shooting 500 yards across a canyon, if you can CONSISTENTLY hit a rock the size of a pickup, you're doing damn good.

Quote:
I just hope these kinds of distances are being done at the range rather than hunting (unless you have a scope or a Thomson Contender type handgun) and heaven forbid, self defense.
I have killed 1 elk and and 3 deer with 1 shot at distances in excess of 100 yds. My farthest open-sighted revolver kill was 127 yards. Furthest scoped handgun kill - 145 yds.
As far as defense goes, IF (big if, I know) I or my family were to run into to trouble somewhere with one or more people with a rifle and we were cut off from ours, at least I have some idea what I do at extremely long pistol ranges to, hopefully, buy some time.

Quote:
Desert Scout, don't forget to mention being aware of what of what is behind your target. Few people can see that far.
At those ranges, what is in line with your target, either between or beyond, becomes very important but I don't usually add common-sense safety precautions to every post I make. I would hope that anyone that shoots or is contemplating shooting is already aware of the 4 Universal Safety Rules. If not, that should become their 1st priority.
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Old January 25, 2006, 02:54 PM   #9
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I practice at 100 yards with my .38 Official Police 4 inch all the time when at outdoor ranges. I pick out a dirt clod or some identifiable small object on the backstop mound and try for it. I can usually get a good small radius around it and even hit it within 6 shots. I'd wager to say if it was a man, I could hit him.

Heck, my mother came out with us to the outdoor range way back with her .38 S&W 2 inch snub nose M-10 and she was doing pretty much the same thing.
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Old January 25, 2006, 03:03 PM   #10
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Quote:
I'd wager to say if it was a man, I could hit him.
That's the whole point. What is "accurate" to one may not be so great to someone else. Considering that 2" groups at 25 yards with a handgun is pretty good by anybody's standards, you should (theoretically) be able to shoot 8" groups at 100. 8" groups with a rifle is pathetic but with a handgun, that's pretty damn good. At whatever range that you can keep most of your shots within "minute-of-badguy", THAT is your effective range.
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Old January 25, 2006, 03:42 PM   #11
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wow..

Okay, so grouping under a foot at 100yards with open sights is pretty damn impressive to me. Nice shooting guys. I could see where having some form of target sights would definately be benificial. As it is, the front dot on my Baby was larger than the target I was firing at.

Mostly I've just never really considered this kind of range for a handgun. Apparantly some others have. You can bet that I'll be taking my pistol out to the long range more often now. Not that I intend to ever need to use it at that range for any reason, but it's pretty dang cool to know that you could.
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Old January 25, 2006, 05:46 PM   #12
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Granted, it is MUCH easier and usually faster to use a better sight than what comes stock on many service-style handguns. I would suggest that you use whatever you would be most likely to use in a defensive encounter IF that is what your gun is primarily used for. If you have a gun that is not particularly being saved for that role and you just want something to play with, get some better sights and have a nice trigger job done on it and I think you will see that 1-200 yard shots will become fairly commonplace for you IF you practice regularly.
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Old January 25, 2006, 06:41 PM   #13
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ricecracker:
I have the same problem with my guns... they all have 3 dot combat sights and it is extremely difficult, not to hold the gun steady on a target at 100 yards, but to even see the damn thing is hard enough.

Does anyone know where I can get some adjustable blade target sights for my G19? I usually carry my Bersa.. so this would just be for target shooting.
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Old January 25, 2006, 08:15 PM   #14
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My beretta 92 can do about 8 or 10 hits on a gong at 100 yards with a 17 round mag. For the 115 grain target ammo, I have to aim the pistol about 1-2 feet high to hit the gong for elevation.

Strangely, I get better long distance accuracy in double action than I do single action.

And if you are having a hard time seeing a 12" target at 100 yards, you probably ought to invest in glasses or contacts. My vision isnt perfect (about 20/25 with contacts) but I can make out a gong out to 200 yards.

Our gongs at the range here are about 15" diameter.

Hey this is my second post, so let me intro myself. I am Sean, I carry a 5" Beretta 92G daily as my CCW. I have been an active shooter of handguns for about 2 years now. I hunted most of my life with bolt action 30-06 rifles and only recently (this year) got into milsurp rifles. I know, now I am forever doomed to be broke. But, on the bright side, I now own almost all the normal milsurp caliber rifles.

7.62 x everything, 6.5, 8mm, way too many.

Happy new year y'all.
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Old January 25, 2006, 08:25 PM   #15
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Quote:
And if you are having a hard time seeing a 12" target at 100 yards, you probably ought to invest in glasses or contacts.
I think what they mean is the front sight covers up too much of the target. Not they can't see it at all.
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Old January 25, 2006, 08:52 PM   #16
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I had a slightly similar experience with my Kel-Tec P-11. I was out in the desert, at an "improvised" range with a lot of junk around. (%$*&^*) I saw an old real estate sign. 2ft by 3ft or so. Just on a whim, I set it up, marched off 100 paces, and fired with the P-11 offhand. Doggone, I hit it on the first try. Went 8 for 10 on that magazine. If the trigger pull on the P-11 was better, I prolly coulda got all 10.

There was a thread on tactics a while back. The scenario was, terrorists in the parking lot of the mall, mowing down the shoppers with an AK-47. You are about 100 yards away, and don't feel you can get closer. You have your CCW. There is a clear backstop (all the folks are in front of the terrorists, moving away.) Would you take the shot?

Sounds like you and me both know we have a decent chance of making the shot, particularly using the car as a rest.
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Old January 25, 2006, 10:08 PM   #17
ricecracker
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Notsomuch a problem seeing the target, (this seems to be one of the only forums on the 'net where being 28 makes me a youngster) my vision is still holding up alright. Mostly I just offered up the comment on the target being smaller than my front dot to put things in perspective. My actual aiming as I mentioned was just as one would at closer ranges, The target was not obscured by the front blade at all.

Yes standard combat sights on the baby. They've done me well for quite awhile now (it's a pre-brady weapon) no need to go swapping 'em out. I may get a new pistol more suitable for this kinda stuff eventually, especially now that I've discovered a local guy's looking to start a longrange pistol shilouette league. All these things I never knew about...
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Old January 25, 2006, 10:18 PM   #18
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Quote:
Mostly I just offered up the comment on the target being smaller than my front dot to put things in perspective. My actual aiming as I mentioned was just as one would at closer ranges, The target was not obscured by the front blade at all.
Now you see one of the problems with "dot" sights. They work good for quick and dirty shooting, but not so good (distracting) for the occasional "precision" shot you may need to take. You can learn to ignore the dots and concentrate on the top of the blade as if it were a target sight and get good results. Or, except for the tritium sights on my Defender, just use plain black.
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Old January 25, 2006, 11:38 PM   #19
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Real shooters like Richard Heinie don't design sights with dots. Dots are for novices. Dots have nothing to do with understanding what acquiring a sight picture means. If you're covering your target with your front sight @ 100 or 400 yds, regardless of your front sight width, then you aren't acquiring a proper sight picture.

Do a search for "Elmer Keath" and all will be revealed to you.
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Old January 26, 2006, 12:52 AM   #20
johndavid400
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right on. I hate dot sights. Why cant people just learn to align the target with the tops of the blades and ignore that you dont have big white dots in your line of sight?
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Old January 26, 2006, 02:39 PM   #21
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All--

One hundred yards is my favorite distance with a pistol. Using my 10" fifty caliber Desert Eagle, I can put seven rounds in vital places off-hand with the stock iron sites. (Titanium gold, in my case.)

With my 7.5" Beretta NEOS Inox DLX and a 1 MOA dot or my Leupold 2.5-8x32 scope, I can create sub-two inch groups using match grade ammunition at 100 yards. I have not taken my 10" Volquartsen to 100 yards, yet. But, I am very eager to do so. It has a customized Burris Signature Select 8-32x44 rifle scope on it and I use either Eley Tenex semi-auto or Lapua Midas "L". I have great confidence that I can create sub-inch, 100 yard, five round groups with it.

I have never shot a .45 or a nine at 100 yards. But, now that folks have mentioned it, I am going to try! And, I will TRY it standing, off-hand. I will be a daisy if I do!

--seal killer
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