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Old December 29, 2005, 03:01 PM   #1
bodieBill
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Home Defense loads

Would you share your favorite HD buckshot loads?
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Old December 29, 2005, 03:11 PM   #2
Dfariswheel
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A lot of people are going with the new "Reduced Recoil" loads.
These reduce the amount of recoil, but are still quite effective.

These reduce recoil in one of two ways:
By reducing the amount of shot, or by reducing the amount of powder.

As an example, the reduced recoil 00 buckshot loads either have the standard 9 pellets but with reduced powder, or they have 8 pellets.

Since the recoil is reduced, you can make much faster follow-up shots.
Remington says their reduced recoil 00 buckshot load has 60% less recoil than standard 00 load.

Reduced recoil buckshot loads are being made by most cartridge companies, but the choice is only between 00 or #4 buckshot, with 00 being the most available.
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Old December 29, 2005, 05:02 PM   #3
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Federal Tactical 00Buck 9 pellet.
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Old December 29, 2005, 05:54 PM   #4
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Home Defense loads

12ga 2-3/4 Std. Load #4 Buck 27 Pellets and 000 8 Pellets
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Old December 29, 2005, 09:03 PM   #5
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I read somewhere that #1 buck is recommended for HD, but I couldn't find #1 last time I was at the gun shop. There was 00 and #2 shot.

Do you guys use your HD load of choice when at the range? In other words do you routinely practice with whatever you keep it stoked with at home?
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Old December 29, 2005, 09:04 PM   #6
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Sorry DP
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Old December 29, 2005, 09:22 PM   #7
duck911
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Hevi-shot "Dead Coyote" is IMHO the most devistating HD load for a shotgun being made today, HANDS DOWN.

Hevi-shot is denser than lead, and the Dead Coyote packs 50 separate .20 caliber pellets (T shot) that deliver some SERIOUS downrange energy and leave the barrel at 1375 FPS.

If fourced to, I'd rather rake a bad guy with 50 .20 caliber heavy duty pellets than 8 or 9 lead balls, especially at close range.
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Old December 30, 2005, 08:49 AM   #8
Dave McC
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Duck, the defunct canid loads having been getting some good ink, but nobody thinks 00 is a Nerf load.

One shot stops with any shotgun, regardless of gauge, load, choke or how many blings are hung on it approach 100%.

Forensic people call CQ shotgun wounds "Bloody Ratholes".

The loads you mention have plenty of kick. Kick is counter productive, if a successive shot is needed it takes longer to get back into position with the Maggie Numbs.

The best load for a given use environment will probably be a standard or R/R load of 1, 0, or 00 buck, chosen after patterning and after some is used in a given weapon. There are occasional ammo/weapon incompatibilities, even with top line gear.

And once again, the gear chosen is less crucial than training, mindset and quality of personnel....
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Old December 30, 2005, 10:27 AM   #9
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I picked up a bunch of common 00 HD loads and broke out my HD shotguns for a day.

I picked up Federal Tactical, Winchester Ranger, Speer LEO, and Hornday TAP. The Ranger was 9 pellet. The other 3 were 8 pellet loads.

I choose the Hornady TAP in the end. Perceived recoil was lower, lower muzzle flash, and measurably tighter patterns.

Take a handful of known rounds and hit the range. You and yours may wind up finding the results different then me and mine.
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Old December 30, 2005, 12:45 PM   #10
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Dave, because I am primarily a bird hunter I use my shotgun for 80-90% of all the hunting I do.

For HD, in my opinion familiarity and comfort level with a gun is very important. I've shot so many thousands of rounds through my 870's that even picking it up in the dark, I could check to see if it was loaded, and if it wasn't, LOAD it, pretty much by instinct very quickly.

I also regularly pattern and shoot heavy 3 1/2 inch goose loads, 3 inch magnum duck loads, turkey loads, etc. So at least for me, 3 inches of hevi-shot T's is just another shotgun round and recoil in my 870's doesn't really enter into the picture. (is it possible to shoot a particular gun so muich and be so familiar with it that you almost become........"recoil proof?" That's how I feel with my 870!!!!)

I am NOT a good shot with my handgun. Chalk it up to a SEVERE lack of practice! I'd have better luck staying on target with quicker follow up with just about ANYTHING out of my 870 (hevi-shot included) compared to my Ruger 9MM.

Can't argue with the energy, weight, size, and speed of the dead-coyote pellets, either.

But as you point out, a shotgun blast at close range with damn near anything loaded up is likely to be terminal. It's almost like the 9 MM vs 40 cal arguments (energy vs recoil vs etc,etc,etc). It sound slike we both agree that controling point of aim and adrenaline and falling back on experience, repitition and training are perhgaps more important than what's loaded up in the gun.

I still love my 50 20 cal pellets though!
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Old December 30, 2005, 01:11 PM   #11
Dave McC
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"Familiarity and comfort level with a gun are very important"....

Amen, duck. Much more important than whether one is using 0000 pellets of depleted Uranium rubbed with garlic.

Recoil proof? Doesn't happen. What you are is well trained and have good fit and form. You, sir, are a shotgunner.
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Old December 31, 2005, 09:51 PM   #12
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Whatever patterns best in the particular gun. Know how it patterns at various distances.
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Old January 1, 2006, 12:19 PM   #13
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Like GunsnRovers, I also have tried a wide variety of HD Reduced Recoil loads. Hornady, Speer, PMC, Winchester, Remington, and Federal all have gone down range with my 1300 Defender. For me, the Speer had the tightest groups but the Winchester Rangers had a nice round 6" spread at 20 feet. Rangers are what I keep in the 1300. But I wouldn't hesitate to use any of the aforementioned. All had nice groups, low recoil, and no FTFs from 25 rounds of each. Northwestloading.com has a pretty wide selection of all major reduced recoil rounds.
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Old January 3, 2006, 03:41 PM   #14
HGKosteck
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12 Gauge 2 3/4 000 Buck (8 Pellets)

Anything less than 000/00 Buck or slugs for HD
will probably only be useful only if your home invader
are dogs or little birds.

Personally, I use my AR for HD, but, I do keep the shotty
ready too.
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Old January 3, 2006, 05:02 PM   #15
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#4 Buckshot

I think anyone would be well served with #4 Buckshot on a home invader larger then a dog or bird.
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Old January 3, 2006, 05:08 PM   #16
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That's not somthing I'd be willing to stake my or my family's life on.

Anything less than 00/000/slug is begging for a 1st shot failure to stop, IMO.

Granted, 20 gauge, if chosen, will need #3 shot, of course.....Which is why
the 20 gauge is only for my wife's use.
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Old January 3, 2006, 08:16 PM   #17
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Interesting debate! Having SEEN and EXPERIENCED patterns with both buckshot (various kinds), Hev-Shot Dead Coyote, and also slugs, I would still stick with my Hev-Shot. It's not a spread out pattern that a duck could fly through - it's a dense friggin' WAD of heavy duty pellets! They act like ONE MASS.

At 10 yards, my gun shoots Hevi-Shot T's in a 5 inch circle with a full choke. And it's not just some bird shot going through paper. It will literally punch a GAPING hole through heavy plywood! It doesn't leave 8 or 9 buckshot holes, instead, it just obliterates what it passes through. Again, it's not stuff you shoot a dove with. It's dense, 20 caliber balls moving in one strung out mass. From what I have seen (shooting at all kinds of metal, wood, and bio targets), under 20 yards anything is dead for sure and anything under 10 yards is cut in half.

The longest shot I can possibly take in my house is about 17 yards. Even at that range my gun puts 90% of the shot in a 12 inch circle.

For my money, I'd rather the BG have the shock of 50 separate 20 caliber wound channels and the shock of nearly 3 ounces of shot entering the body.

Your mileage may vary...
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Old January 3, 2006, 09:33 PM   #18
HGKosteck
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I don't have any experience with the Hev-shot load, so I can't speak to that particular load......Standard run of the mill 2 3/4 ammo, though, 00/000/slug is the only thing worth a darn for HD, IMO.

I'm of the school of thought that you better have enough punch with your load to take the BG down in one shot, becasue that may be all you have.

Got a source for that Hev-shot? Linky?
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Old January 3, 2006, 10:22 PM   #19
duck911
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By the way, Hevi-shot also now makes a 00 buckshot load,for you buckshot fans. Even if you like your buck I'd consider the hevi-shot buck over lead buck, for a few reasons: First, Hevi-shot does not deform out of the barrel like lead. That means more consistant patterns and less fliers. At close up HD ranges this may not be a huge factor. Also, the H.S. is denser than lead. More energy on target! There is a reason that even the lighter waterfowl H.S. loads have a warning on the box about human skin penetration out to 200 yards!!!

Here is the Hevi-shot website: http://www.hevishot.com/home.html

Here is some Hevi-shot info from guns and ammo mag: http://www.gunsandammomag.com/ammunition/hevi_hitter/

And a quote from that article:

"The lethality of the smaller, harder shot is proving itself in the game fields. At a recent Remington seminar held at Cody, Wyoming, I watched as a 3-inch load of No. 4s in lead, steel and Hevi-Shot were fired into eighth-inch thick metal targets at 40 yards. The steel shot lightly dented the target with minimal hits. Lead did somewhat better with more hits on target, but no penetration. The HS performance stunned me. Eighty percent of the pellets blew completely through, perforating the metal like a sieve. "

(by the way, he didn't mean 8 inch thick targets, rather, '8 inch metal targets that happen to be thick')

Hevi-shot is also proven to pattern much tighter than lead, which helps when using it as a HD load.

Like I said, no doubt that buck works too, but having seen first hand what the stuff can do I won't go back.
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Old January 7, 2006, 12:56 PM   #20
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I joined this forum just to answer this thread.
IMO, the best hd load would depend on the home you are defending.
I live in the country. My 870 is loaded with 2 3/4" 00 buck with more buck
and a couple of slugs in a butt sleeve. I have no doubt that hevi-shot would
be very effective for my situation.

If you live in an apartment or a housing development, you need to think about
over penetration. I used to keep a couple of high brass #6 shells in the magazine
with the same mix as above in the butt sleeve. I wouldn't want to take a load of
even #9's at apartment range.

My little brother had an AD with a 22 revolver a couple of years ago. You'd be suprised at how many walls, clothes, closet doors and dressers it went through.

Something to think about.
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Old January 7, 2006, 04:30 PM   #21
trigger happy
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birdshot..at indoor ranges I don't think there will be a significant enough difference to warrant any other load
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Old January 7, 2006, 04:40 PM   #22
HGKosteck
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It's beyond me why anyone would want to stake their lives on birdshot.

I guess I'd deal with any overpenetration of 000 buck AFTER I wasn't
6 feet under.

http://www.theboxotruth.com

can shed some good light on this ammunition issue.
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Old January 7, 2006, 05:01 PM   #23
duck911
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I think any shot smaller than 4's is getting too small. I wouldn't recommend real "birdshot."

I'm all for Hevi-Shot T's but 6, 7 1/2, 8, or 9 is asking for trouble. I read on another webpage about a guy who took a chest of 9's at close range. The shot made it as deep as his sternum, and mushroomed out under the skin. Only a few pellets made it between the ribs. Ugly injury, but probably wouldn't stop someone high on drugs (for example).
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Old January 7, 2006, 05:28 PM   #24
HGKosteck
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Good example Duck.

I've read a number of LEO AARs RE: Birdshot. Ugly, nasty surface wounds, w/o much penetration. Body armor, drugs, or drunk is always a possibility in somone who has the mindset that it's acceptable to invade somones home.

I'm still not down with Hevshot until I run my own tests and comparisons, but, your point is well taken.

You might try sending a few rounds to Old_Painless at http://www.theboxotruth.com and have him run some penetration tests. Might be an eye opener for some people. He's a really good guy, and some of his tests are pretty illuminating.
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Old January 8, 2006, 08:47 AM   #25
trigger happy
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I'm concerned about overpenetration..my shotgun is a hunting shotgun with a 26 inch barrel and a full choke..it's not a fighting shotgun
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