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Old December 21, 2005, 01:54 AM   #1
Hang-Fire
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Black powder substitue for revolvers

Can anyone recommend a good black powder substitute for a black powder revolver? I have been shooting black powder in my remington copy so far, but cleaning the fouling out of all the nooks and crannies is a total pain in the a$$. Suggestions are welcome.

HF
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Old December 21, 2005, 02:50 AM   #2
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All I have used is 777 and APP.

Neither leaves ANY residue, so far.

BP is the next powder I use, bought a can of Goex a little while ago.

BP, the real stuff, makes a smell you want to smell, sulfur, 777 makes very little smoke, does not smell bad, APP makes tons of smoke that just plain stinks.

AND, if anyone in your area sells it, BP usually sells for about a 1/3 less, or more, than the subs. I paid 19 for the 777, 18 for the APP, and 13 for the Goex BP, in one 1 pound can, not case purchases.

So, I think I will shoot BP only, after the subs are gone.

Cheers,

George
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Old December 21, 2005, 03:35 AM   #3
Hang-Fire
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Does the triple 7 come in different grain sizes like regular black powder? If so, which size is best for cap and ball revolvers? What charge weight should I use? Is it grain for grain or volume equivalent to BP?

HF
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Old December 21, 2005, 06:16 AM   #4
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777 comes in the same granulations as blackpowder. With the 58 remington you can use ffg or fffg either one. The fffg will give you higher pressures and velocities. My understanding is that it is volume equivalent to real BP but it gives you 10-15% more velocity than BP.
For your charge weight, with the fffg you could use anywhere from 20 grains up to 35 grains and I would suggest not exceeding that.
if you decide to use ffg, then you could use anything from 20 grains up to 40 and that will probably fill the chambers when you pour it in there but will compress when you ram in the ball.
fffg is the granulation generally used for bp pistols, and that is mostly what I use. ffg is generally for rifles but sometimes I shoot some from my pistol, it won't hurt anything. On the other side though, DO NOT use fffg in a rifle, the pressures generated could be dangerously high.
If you are just target shooting, I suggest using a mid range charge weight like 25-30 grains of fffg.
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Old December 21, 2005, 07:42 AM   #5
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At the suggestion of MP1423 I have been wanting to try the 777 in my Remingtons. The problem is to fold for me, I'm stuborn and a die hard BP Goex user and the price of 777 scares the hell out of my pockets
I'm paying $14.00 a pound for Goex and I have seen 777 go for as high as $27.00 and as low as $24.00 around here. Had a hard time even finding it for a while.As much as I shoot the price of the 777 would keep me broke!
The cleaning of these Revolvers is all part of the game and some people love it and some people call it work and hate it. Guess it's all in how you look at it. I take pride in cleaning my spotless and lubed and ready for the next go round.
If I ever find the 777 at a good price I really want to try it.
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Old December 21, 2005, 08:29 AM   #6
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I have the opposite problem, RK convinced me to try Goex and now my supplier tells me that he won't be renewing his BP license, so I guess it's 777 or pyrodex for me after I have shot up my supply of Goex. I do actually like the cleaning process though so the fouling doesn't bother me as long as the gun doesn't bind up from it.
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Old December 21, 2005, 08:42 AM   #7
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Low Key, Finding the real BP is becoming a problem all over the states. I have one place , maybe two that still carry it and say they will as long as it's available. Both of these places cater to BP shooters and carry everything you can think of from that era in history. It's nice to walk in and see a wall full of nothing but muzzle loaders.
It may pay for you to do some searching and find a place like that. Even if it's a couple hour drive it would be worth it if you buy a couple of pounds at once . You can make a little trip out of and buy the wife breakfast and lunch on the trip The closest place for me is 55 miles so I just load up on supplies when I go there.
If you ever get a chance to go to Lodi Ohio (south central Ohio) you will want to go to the "LOG CABIN BP GUN SHOP" take your credit cards and check book! It's an old two story house converted to a BP shop that sells nothing but BP guns and clothes, books, skins and the list goes on and on. Behind the place you can throw tomahawks and knives or shoot your smoke poles or pistols and revolvers.
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Old December 21, 2005, 08:48 AM   #8
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Black powder is unobtainable here. Even if you drive the 100 miles to Austin or Dallas there is no guarantee that you will get the powder- they are often out and one place only has one employee authorized to open the powder magazine. He is frequently unavailable. So I order in 25 pound lots from Clarksville, Arkansas Don Eichenberger, Clarksville Rod and Gun.
Actually, H777 isn't as bad as it looks pricewise. Being lighter and fluffier than black powder, you get more charges per can and it last a pretty long time.
50 Yards:



This time, the lighter 777 charge is the one that offered up the wide velocity swings. I picked the loads so I could avoid compressing the stuff very much.

Last edited by mec; August 28, 2010 at 09:22 PM.
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Old December 21, 2005, 09:23 AM   #9
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When it gets so I can't buy black powder, I might try making some of my own. A friend of mine, several years ago, made 2 or 3 batches, and I shot some out of one of those. It was noticeably less powerful than the store-bought stuff but it was real black powder and it did work.

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Old December 21, 2005, 12:26 PM   #10
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Mike,
Good idea about searching around for shops that will carry real BP. I've got a couple of ideas that I'll have to check into and see if they carry BP in addition to the subs. Since wal-mart carries pyrodex and 777 there aren't many people around here that still use real BP, (as far as I know), and the shop owner I know that is not renewing his BP license told me that they are more strictly regulating how he can store real BP. He would have to build a building separate from his shop and I think he said he would have to have the BP stored in a vault too. Too much trouble for too few sales probably.

Since I've gotten the Remington tuned in to where it no longer binds up, I don't mind shooting the subs at all and I also like the idea of using real BP in there too. I get good accuracy from all of them, but if I can continue to get real BP from somewhere then I'll keep using it in addition to the 777 and pyrodex.
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Old December 21, 2005, 05:14 PM   #11
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Our "friends" at BATFEces seem intent on regulating black powder out of existence.
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Old December 26, 2005, 08:59 AM   #12
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You can use 777 in your revolver.Use 2f or 3f in it.I use 2f in my 1858 .44 and in my 1860 .44 all the time.Just remember that in equal volume 3f will increase the pressure over 2f so you will have to decrease the volume if you use 3f powder.
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Old January 1, 2006, 09:26 AM   #13
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Not Equal in Volume...

Quote:
777 comes in the same granulations as blackpowder. With the 58 remington you can use ffg or fffg either one. The fffg will give you higher pressures and velocities. My understanding is that it is volume equivalent to real BP but it gives you 10-15% more velocity than BP.
For your charge weight, with the fffg you could use anywhere from 20 grains up to 35 grains and I would suggest not exceeding that.
if you decide to use ffg, then you could use anything from 20 grains up to 40 and that will probably fill the chambers when you pour it in there but will compress when you ram in the ball.
Read this chart before you feel that FFg 777 is equal in volume to Black Powder... cause it ain't, 37.4gr of FFg 777 adjusted by 15% equals 60gr of FFg Goex Black Powder in pressure and velosity, here's the Chart:
http://www.curtrich.com/BPConversionSheet.htm

777 should not be tightly compressed as you do with BP, ball should be brought do to the Powder but not crushed like BP. Just passin it on...be safe.
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Old January 1, 2006, 01:04 PM   #14
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yall are right about it getting hard to find real bp.im looking for some fffg goex but the only one close to me that has it is dixie and they are 3.5 hours away.that would be one of those trips where you get all you need the 1st trip.lol.
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Old January 2, 2006, 08:00 AM   #15
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Yeah, the shops closer to me that I checked with don't carry real bp anymore, just the subs...too much regulation on storage and such. I guess unless I make a trip to dixie for supplies, I'll be shooting pyrodex or 777...Right now I still have a little less than half a pound of fffg Goex and I'm gonna hold back some for special occasions though.
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Old January 2, 2006, 08:12 AM   #16
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I'm hoarding mine. I only have 3 cans of FFFG left. Those will be used very, very sparingly. I still have several cans (Lbs) of FFG. Luckily the 44's like the FFG.

I think we should have a special occasion! Like for a BP get together sometime during the year. Wouldn't that be great. I know we're all spread over the country, but it's something to think about.
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Old January 2, 2006, 12:14 PM   #17
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dragoon your right that would be cool!
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Old January 2, 2006, 01:31 PM   #18
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I'm in!

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Old January 3, 2006, 08:23 AM   #19
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Sounds like a great idea!
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Old January 3, 2006, 11:33 AM   #20
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Old Dragoon

Maybe have the black powder get together at/near a
BP wholesaler .
http://www.goexpowder.com/distributors.html#wy

Last edited by tinker2; January 4, 2006 at 02:44 PM.
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