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Old December 12, 2005, 01:58 PM   #1
plom
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Defensive Black powder!

A friend of me called today, he is Police Officer and know I'm a big fan of Black powder guns so he wanted to share a story he experienced. Last week they were called because some guns shots had been fired on the street. When they arrived at the place they found a dead body on the ground armed with a knife. After a short investigation (a witness saw all the scene) it seem that the man armed with a knife asked violently to a couple going down the street to give him their wallet and cell phone. As answer he received two shots of caliber 36 fired from a black powder revolver!One in the stomack and one in the chest. The witness saw the BG drop on the floor holding his chest and colapsed few seconds later.
The BG was well know of the Police for attacks on older persons. Who said Black powder revolvers were not efficient???
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Old December 12, 2005, 02:07 PM   #2
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The only people who try to tell you that .36 ,.44 or .45 black powder is not a good defence gun do not know what they are talking about. People have carried revolvers for many years for just that reason and many lives have been taken with them. Way to much Magnum mentaility today.
No revolver old or new will beat a semi or full auto in a fire fight but only a fool would bring a knife to a .36 gun fight
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Old December 12, 2005, 02:17 PM   #3
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The more I shoot BP revolvers, the more I am convinced that they deliver a lot more than people give them credit for. The .44 cal sure hits hard on a target, milk jug, pop can, or old 15 inch log. I believe it was wild bill hickok that said if you shoot a man in the gut (with a bp revolver) it takes the fight right out of them immediately. The design may be old, but they aren't out of date for doing what they do. Some of the old timers (including wild bill) held onto their cap and ball revolvers long into the cartrige era, they must have had a good reason.
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Old December 12, 2005, 02:54 PM   #4
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Jim Taylor tells about a guy who was shot with a ball from a .44 60 army. Ball went through his chest into a kitchen cabinet and lodged in a loaf of bread. The guy lived but Jim didn't know whether he really got well or not.
The only problem I have with them is if the trigger bolt spring breaks, you're screwed; if the hand spring breaks, you're only blued but if the mainspring breaks, you're screwed, blued and tatoed.
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Old December 12, 2005, 03:33 PM   #5
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Mec, Good points I don't believe I would use it as my main carry piece but if it's what I had on me or near when needed then I would have no fear of it doing it's job if needed and doing it well.
I read that artical you mention above in your book and many other accounts from other sources about how well they worked in the Civil war and after. In fact I have some books, with original pictures of the bad boy's laying out in there caskets in an upright position showing the holes from these guns.
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Old December 12, 2005, 03:42 PM   #6
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those dalton boys are more famous than they ever knew.
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Old December 12, 2005, 03:55 PM   #7
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Yes sir, you got that right!
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Old December 12, 2005, 04:32 PM   #8
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well,i tell ya,if im met on a call with a bp pistol i'd take is seriously and shoot back with my .40.lol.the gansters of nashville would never think of getting a bbp gun mainly cause the dumb asses could figure out how to load it and you cant shoot them real good while your running away.more bullets,more bullets,thats all we hear today.hell,i've got a box and a half on my belt if i need more its time to step back and re-punt or run like hell.i've always said "my pistol is only to get me back to the crusier for my shotgun w/slugs"!!!
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Old December 12, 2005, 05:15 PM   #9
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MP1423, Lol. Sounds like you got a good plan
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Old December 12, 2005, 08:15 PM   #10
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I have a personal philosophy that any holes in my body that God did not issue me are bad holes. The addendum to that is I especially do not one of those holes to be the result of a .44 round ball.
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Old December 12, 2005, 09:54 PM   #11
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Nra,
10-4 That!!! Same Here But If It Happens I Hope The Bad Guy Is A Real Bad Shot Or Hits Me In The Vest.lol
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Old December 12, 2005, 11:46 PM   #12
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Demo

MPP did you ever Test the vests in a Demo? I don't mean wearing one, just fire test exercise.
Participated it demos of U.S. Kevlar equipment, also some Russian armour protection from the Soviet occupation of Afganistan. They had Titanium discs that overlapped and worked great on pistol and shrapnel...but a .303 British Enfield would go thru it like butter at any distance. Had one that was brought back, a clean heart shot. And the Kevlar Helmets stop up to a 44mag...it goes right through. As does a 7.62x39 or the .22 cal AK74. But it sure is alot more heathy to wear than a Fiels Jacket...
I am glad to hear for your sake and other Officers the the bad guys are usually not great shots. And glad that your training and years of service put your adrenalin to good use. Stay safe.

A Little off topic but thought it was worth mentioning.
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Old December 13, 2005, 01:03 AM   #13
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Smokin,
The Only Test I Ever Did Was In My Back Yard And A Old Vest.no Pistol Rounds From .22-.45 Went Thru But I Folded The Vest Over To Make It 4 Layers Of 15 Thick Thats 60 Layers Of Kevlar And Shot It With A Sks 7.62x39 And It Not Only Went Thru But Kept Going.noT A Good Feeling .i Wear Mine Faithfully But You Just Never Know Now Days What The Bad Guys Are Going To Use.you Know,i've Never Shot One With A Bp Pistol Before?i Just May Have To Check That Out.lol.
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Old December 13, 2005, 02:02 AM   #14
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If you still have that vest give it a try and let us know. Pentitration is very good for some reason even with soft lead roundballs. Goes against everything I know, but the proof is in the puttin it in....LoL!
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Old December 13, 2005, 08:21 AM   #15
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I Have Got To Try It Now That Its On My Mind.i No Longer Have A Vest At The House But I Will Talk To My Bud's At The Acadmey And See If I Cant Get Another One.of Course Penetration Is One Thing But What Really Kills Ya Is The Blunt Trama.just Cause The Bullet Doesnt Go Thru The Vest Dont Mean You Wont Die!most Pistol Rounds Are Defeated By The Vest And Probably Wont Kill Ya But The Guys I've Talked To That Have Been Hit During A Gun Fight In The Vest Says It Feels Like Getting Hit With A Sledge Hammer Full Force.now,if You Get Hit With Say A Shotgun Slug In The Chest Without A Shock Plate In Place Theres A Good Chance You Aint Going To Make It Cause Of Blunt Force Although The Vest Will Stop It,i Know Cause I've Shot One Into A Vest.all Of This Said,i'll Take My Chances And Wear Mine Faithfully Cause You Have A Chance At Least If You Have One On But If You Dont Wear One Its A Good Chance You Aint Going To Make It When You Get Hit!you Know What They Say "you Cant Kill A Roach" Meaning If A Cop Shoots A Bad Guy They Live Most Of The Time No Matter How Many Times You Shoot The Bastards But A Cop Gets Shot With A .22 In The Pinky And We Die!! Sure Seems That Way Most Of The Time Too!!
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Old December 13, 2005, 08:53 AM   #16
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Like I tell my Nephew. I could not do your job. Having to deal with all the crud and not being able to be judge, jury and executioner. I could not do it. Especially the perps that hurt kids with drugs and such. No way. You have my utmost respect.
I tell my Nephew this, and I will add you to the list. I tell him. "You are my Hero!"

Be safe.
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Old December 13, 2005, 09:08 AM   #17
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Hey, Kevin, don't count on the vest to stop a 12 gauge slug. When my old outfit tested the vests we were considering a slug just blew right through them. You would think a big, soft lead projectile wouldn't do that but - not the case.

Steve
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Old December 14, 2005, 07:56 PM   #18
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Who said that?

Who said that quote at your page bottom ? Besides you of course.

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Old December 14, 2005, 08:56 PM   #19
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Bullets with copper jackets need to expand and use up alot of there energy doing it while trying to go through a vest wouldnt it ??

A big hunk of lead is easily flattend and applies all its energy on to the target thats why it can "rip" though the vest. Well thats how my mind interprite its.

I wonder do any of you Carry with your BP relover ??

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Old December 15, 2005, 04:56 AM   #20
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I carry my 58 Remington all the time when I'm on my own property. Open carry is illegal in TN so I have to carry concealed when I'm in public. I can't carry the regular 8 in barrel 58 concealed because it's just so big, but I do have plans to order one of the 5 1/2 in barrel versions from cabelas which would set nicely in a shoulder holster I generally carry a Para-Ordinance p12 45 auto concealed everywhere else.
Here's a pic of the rig I wear around my own property in the woods and such, I don't always have the monster knife on there though, lol!
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Old December 15, 2005, 12:57 PM   #21
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I have on occassion CCW with the Pocket Remington, fitted with a .32 SW catridge conversion.
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Old December 15, 2005, 01:56 PM   #22
4V50 Gary
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Black powder guns were used to kill a lot of people in the wars that preceded nitro-cellulose propellants. While modern technology has replacd it, there's no reason why it doesn't work today either. Indeed, we have an excellent example and I thank you for it plom.
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Old December 17, 2005, 04:52 AM   #23
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you're very welcome 4V50 Gary. Actualy, a guy found a revolver and delivered it to the Police. This is a Colt 1851 cal 36 with a 7 1/2" barrel. The gun match with the one used to shoot the BG. Since BP guns are not registred here it's impossible to find who bough it so the case is closed.
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Old December 17, 2005, 05:30 AM   #24
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Plom your statement in your signature...

Plom is that statement a qoute? If so who was it that said it? And if you did that's a good one...
"If you can stay calm, while all around you is chaos...then you probably
haven't completely understood the situation."

I wonder if the Good Guy's alias would now or have been Virgil Antee.
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Old December 17, 2005, 08:47 AM   #25
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Hi Smokin Gun,, hehehhehe no, this statement is not from me,it's from a an american friend,Brian that served with us in Bosnia. There is often guys who pretend they can stay calm and be cool under fire, then Sgt Brian told them allways this statement to get them back in the real world
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