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Old December 5, 2005, 05:00 PM   #1
Stewart032
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Need Advice

New here and need some advice on 2 muzzleloaders.

I looking at the Cabelas's Sporterized Hawken Hunter Carbine and the Lyman Deerstalker mls. I am not new to Muzzloaders I shoot a Traditions Inline but I looking to get one of the oldtimer look alike guns as what some friends call them and they also think that I'm Crazy for thinking of buying one but who cares and it is my money and I'm new to the traditional type ml

This ml is going to be used for Deer hunting and target shooting. Most of my shoots that i take are from 10yards out to 75yard with 100yard shoots once in while.

1. which ml would you guys choose and why is it better then the other.

2. what grain of powder and brand do you guys prefer and bullets.

3. what do you guys prefer double trigger or single and why
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Old December 5, 2005, 09:31 PM   #2
BigV
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I hunted deer for many years with an old Thompson Center "Hawken" 50 cal. I used cotton patches with 120 grains of ffg black powder and round balls. I shot lots of deer with that gun, but had lots of no fires and hang fires as well. Times have changed... I now shoot a Thompson center Omega 50 cal. with a laminated wood thumbhole stock. With the new technology of in-line ignition systems and 209 primers, no fires and hang fires are a thing of the past. In addition, 150 to 200 yards shots are not uncommon. I have been through many "smoke poles" before settling on the Omega. I had a Remington MDL 700 in 50 cal. and a Encore in 50 cal as well. I would not even consider going back to my old "Hawken" rifle, but that's just MHO.
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Old December 6, 2005, 09:38 AM   #3
Steve499
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Stewart032, either of the rifles you mention will work, it's a matter of personal preference as far as the details on each. I don't know what calibers they are offered in and my personal preference is for the largest bore I can get because I primarily shoot round balls, which are considerably lighter than any other bullets. It doesn't matter for targets but a heavier bullet is more effective for hunting.
If you elect to use round balls, a slower twist in the rifling will tend to be more accurate. A lot of the reproduction rifles have a 1 in 48 twist which will sometimes do just fine with round balls in one rifle and not in the next one. Hollow based Minie-type bullets work well with the slower twists, too.
As far as powder charges go, 1 grain of powder for each hundredth of an inch in bore size is a generally good starting place for rifles. ( 45 grains for a .45 caliber, 50 grains for a 50 caliber, etc.) You may find your rifle likes more or less. I have a .32 which shoots best with 30 grains of FFFg and a .58 that likes 67 grains of FFg.
I like set triggers. The setting of the back trigger makes the front trigger a hair trigger which will keep you honest with your trigger squeeze! After you use one just a little, you won't do any jerking of the trigger which,as we all know, is probably the single largest cause of inaccurate shooting. They can be adjusted all the way down to scary so you shouldn't pull the back trigger until you are on target and ready to shoot!
The misfires and hangfires with muzzle loaders can be minimized by proper cleaning and proper preparation before loading. If a rifle has been heavily lubricated for storage it should be cleaned of lubricant in the barrel/chamber/nipple area before you load it up. A few dry patches and firing a couple of caps on the nipple will often not remove all the lubricant from the face of the breechplug. I no longer use petroleum-based lubricant inside my barrels and pump rubbing alcohol through the barrel to de-grease it. The alcohol evaporates rapidly and leaves the chamber and nipple dry.
When you get a muzzle loading rifle, expect to spend quite a bit of range time working out the best in it. There isn't any recommendation which will be a guaranteed solution in your particular rifle. There are a lot of variables (patch thickness/composition, ball size/configuration, powder charge/volume and what kind, etc.) which all need to be changed a little at a time and one at a time to learn what's best in that rifle. Some folks don't like that sort of thing and settle for poor accuracy. Most rifles will give good accuracy for hunting if you invest the time to find it.

Have fun with it and welcome to the forum!

Steve
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Old December 11, 2005, 11:13 AM   #4
Wingbone
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Stewart,
I have a full size Cabelas Hawken in .54 and the Lyman Deer Stalker in .50. I dont know if the sporterized carbine is the same as the full size but if you want a more traditional rifle go with the Cabelas. The deer stalker has a more modern looking stock with rubber butt pad, no set trigger, and more modern sights (although they can be changed). On the otherhand, the Cabelas has alot of brass on it and could shine in the woods and spook deer. (a buddy scared one away because of his big shiny belt buckle). Id hate to have choose between them (or my Lyman Great Plains). I'm sure you'll be happy with either. I havent done any serious testing but I use round ball with 100grns of ffg and do fairly well. Good luck,
Ken
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Old December 11, 2005, 11:26 AM   #5
Old Dragoon
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You could soak the brass parts in lemon or lime juice overnight. First polish them with 600 grit wet/dry and soak them....tarnishes them right up and npo more spook.
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Old December 11, 2005, 12:03 PM   #6
Remington kid
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Stewart, Over the years I have owned , built and shot many muzzle loaders and let me clear up one thing for you..... Any muzzle loader with a Green River barrel will shoot with most so called modern muzzle loaders today and it will even match some modern rifles out to 200 yards. If you get into the match muzzle loaders then you are talking 500 yards.
If properly cleaned and loaded they will not let you down at all and can give you some great memories to share with your kids and show you what it was really all about to the settlers and mountain men.
They have dropped many Moose, Elk, Black Bear, Griz, Deer, Humans and many Buff.
You don't need to spend a fortune to have a good one for hunting out to 150-200 yards. Either of the two you mentioned above are good ones but I have a thing for the Hawkin.
For deer size game a .45 with ball, patch and 60g of powder will knock a deer on it's butt out to 150 yards but I always try to keep my shots under a 100. A good hunter should be able to keep there shots much less than that.
A good all around muzzle loader for say Moose to deer would be a 54.
Spend some time sighting it in and working up a load with the right size ball, patch and powder and you will have a winner.
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Old December 11, 2005, 12:23 PM   #7
tonygrz
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Being new to BP, I have an inline CVA that I load with 110 Pyrodex. Why do you have to go down to 50 to 70 BP for a Hawkin? Are the barrels or locks not as strong? Just wondering.
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Old December 11, 2005, 01:10 PM   #8
Remington kid
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tonygrz, Lol, You can really load up just about any muzzle loader if you want to but the question is Why? You don't need all that powder to take down most game in the US or Canada or Mexico. If fact, the heavy loads are sometimes no where near as accurate as a normal load for whatever caliber you are shooting. As Steve mentioned above most manufactures will tell you to load with powder equal to the caliber....54 /54g of powder as a starting load. Then you can work up or down until you reach what works best fore your gun. No two are alike, I have a .50 Hawkin with a Green River barrel that loves 90g of fffg, a patch and a ball. At 150 yrds I can keep every shot inside a 3" circle from a bench rest and this gun has a short barrel and it will knock an Elk over like it was hit by a Mac truck
It seems that your gun likes 110g of Pyrodex and that's great. You don't say what caliber it is or what your shooting out of it but if that works then it's fine.
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Old December 11, 2005, 02:06 PM   #9
Smokin_Gun
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Best off the Rack Muzzleloader

Stewart, Dollar for pound I think the best made rifle and most authentic you can get off the shelf is the Lyman Great Plains Rifle .54 for the most dropping power, .50 cal for most anything you wanna shoot. Flint or percussion, left or right handed... not too pricey in the $400-$450 range and worth every cent. Very capable of 300 yard effective range. It's what I'd get...look into one.


Tony the n-lines hav a much faster rifling twist and usually shoot sabots or uch heavier real-bullet rounds made for a faster twist. Like RK said you don't need a110 gr to make a traditional ML acurate. Besides it would burn a hole thru the patch. Maxi Balls work well in a slower twist and you may up the charge to say 80-90gr.
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Last edited by Smokin_Gun; December 11, 2005 at 05:00 PM.
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Old December 11, 2005, 11:30 PM   #10
tonygrz
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I am recoil shy. The CVA in-line is a 50 cal with 209 ignition. 110grs of Pyrodex seem a little stout for me. If I can go down to under 80grs of Pyrodex or lower would be just fine with me. But will that load down a deer. I am using a 45 cal 240 gr hollow point all lead bullets with a sabot. I use open sites and get 4 inch groups at 100 yds. I really don't trust myself with anything over 100 yds.

When I go deer hunting, if I get a deer great, but that's not important. I just want to make sure that I get a humane hit on the deer.

If I can cut down on the recoil and still get enough energy to down a deer I may have to go to a Hawken with a round ball and 50 or 60 grs of BP. And I can limit my shots to 75 yds.

Am I going in the right direction??? Thanks
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Old December 12, 2005, 07:24 AM   #11
Remington kid
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You wont have any problem knocking down a deer with that gun useing 80g. in fact you may find that it shoots even more accurate for you. I'm guessing and I do mean guessing, that you will find really great accuracy at around 75 to 90 g. with that set up.Just give it a try and see how it shoots for you. Start out sighting in close and work out from there.
You set up off a deer trail or feeding area 50-100 yards downwind where you can hide yourself a little and get a good shot and have fun. That's what it's all about.
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Old December 17, 2005, 06:47 AM   #12
Smokin_Gun
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Hawken .50

Tony I used to shoot silouette competion Heavy metalic chickens at 25 yd, pigs at 50 yd, turkey at 75 yd, rams at 100 yd. Five of each and most out of 40 shots. The Rams were maybe 18' long 10" high at 100 yards and I had not trouble at all makin um go clang and knock the heavy suckers off the rail...LoL! Any of them Hawkens are fine shooters, Traditions, Cabelas, Of course T/C ins more $ ... and that Lyman Great Plains Rifle is just real sweet.
I had no trouble at all hitting a full size moose's head at 300 yards with my Tennessee Mountain Poorboy .50 or that T/C Hawken. Shorter barrels are better for hunting i.e. Hawkens. Here's a Deer load I've used, 60gr FFg Goex, load 1 patched round ball, then load another patched round ball on top of it. I get an 8" spread at 100 yard with it... Let me know how you like it.
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