Cheap .223 assault rifle

Mikeyboy · November 7, 2005, 05:28 PM

Besides the Ruger Mini 14, are there any other cheap .223 rifles out there that takes high capacity mags. Just curious. I would like to eventually get a .223 rifle new and the Mini-14 is one option, but I hear it is not real accurate. I'm thinking of spending under $500, well out of the range of a good used M-16.

Sam Cade · November 7, 2005, 05:34 PM

Well, A used M-16 will run you $4,000-8,000.

azredhawk44 · November 7, 2005, 05:37 PM

Look for an SU-16 by KelTec. Their MSRP is out of your price range, but they NEVER sell for their MSRP. Should be able to find one around $300.

It is a polymer-variant of an AR-15 that uses the same mags. Also look into Norinco.

azredhawk44 · November 7, 2005, 05:41 PM

The mini-14 is a miniaturization of the M-14 rifle, a very accurate rifle with an effective range beyond 600 meters.

Granted the M14/M1A uses .308 rather than .223...

I've found all the mini's I've shot to be more accurate than the AR's I've shot. But I have long suffered from a lack of tactitude

Handy · November 7, 2005, 05:54 PM

A decent kit and receiver will cost you just over $500 for a very standard A2 type AR-15. This is far and away the best value in a .223 rifle.

shaggy · November 7, 2005, 05:58 PM

A well used M16 will run far more than $4000-8000; more like $9,000-12,000

An AR15, on the other hand, can be had for a fraction of that price. Maybe $600 or so. You might also consider a 5.56 AK variant, but comming in under $500 with a couple mags will be difficult if not impossible. If you went to one in 7.62x39, you could do it though.

Handy already beat me to the punch but FWIW I'd buy an AR15 lower and buy the rest of the gun as a complete kit or as individual parts, as you can afford it. You'll end up with a far better weapon than if you just buy what you can afford now. A lower can be had for about $100. J&T has complete kits (less the lower receiver) for about $500.

Nicotine · November 7, 2005, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Well, A used M-16 will run you $4,000-8,000.

WHAT? Why would anyone pay that for an "M-16" when they could get an AR-15 for as low as $600 and still be legal? Correct me if I'm wrong(I may very well be) but isn't M-16 just a military designation for an AR-15? The main difference being full-auto control parts?

I got a SA-M5S from arsenal for $700. It is an AK-47 in 5.56x45nato. I know that the AK gets a lot of crap because it is supposedly inferior somehow, but I love the gun and have never had problems with it.

Nicotine · November 7, 2005, 07:24 PM

www.gunsnstuff.net
check this site, last I looked they had a 16" AR-15 carbine for $500.

Russ538 · November 7, 2005, 07:41 PM

What about a WASR-3? http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/c...AK_Rifles.html

It's cheap and accepts high capacity magazines. As far as accuracy goes, I'm not really familiar with the numbers. I'm thinking 5 inch groups at 100 yds, but definitely not positive on that. I'm sure someone here could tell you if you really wanted to know.

Nicotine · November 7, 2005, 07:49 PM

SAR-3 would be nice, but you would have to replace the trigger components right away. I think the WASR-3 got cancelled did it not? Besides, I'm not much of a STAMPED reciever fan.

Pilot · November 7, 2005, 08:05 PM

Quote:

WHAT? Why would anyone pay that for an "M-16" when they could get an AR-15 for as low as $600 and still be legal? Correct me if I'm wrong(I may very well be) but isn't M-16 just a military designation for an AR-15? The main difference being full-auto control parts?

Ha. Gotcha!

Sam was referring to the fact that only select fire (semi auto to full auto) are considered "Assault Rifles". The mainstream media labeled our legally owned semi-auto rifles "Assualt Rifles" or "Assault Weapons" in order to scare people and garner more viewers.

Our AR-15's and semi-auto AK clones are really only "Sporting Rifles" as most people just use them for punching paper.

Sam Cade · November 7, 2005, 08:07 PM

Nicotine: Ak type rifles are supposed to be stamped. A milled rec. AK offers no advantage over a stamped rifle unless you consider weight to be a good thing.
People will pay $10k for a full auto M16 because that is simply how much they cost. ( No machineguns manufactured after '86 are allowed to be sold to civvies, you have a decreasing supply of transferable rifles and an increasing demand.)

Nicotine · November 7, 2005, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Ha. Gotcha!

Sam was referring to the fact that only select fire (semi auto to full auto) are considered "Assault Rifles". The mainstream media labeled our legally owned semi-auto rifles "Assualt Rifles" or "Assault Weapons" in order to scare people and garner more viewers.

I was under the impression that someone asking for a cheap assault rifle could get a straight answer here, not a bunch of word games and semantics.

bdc · November 7, 2005, 10:08 PM

The typical thing is that people ask what equipment is both good and cheap.

In the real world, skill level counts for much more.

Do you know why you want a .223? If you don't then you need to sit down and talk with some one about the better questions and then rent and try out firearms.

A firearm is simply a tool. To choose a tool, you need to know
who is going to use it
what it is going to be used for
when it will be used
why it will be used and
how it will be used.

Range?
Target?
Low light or daylight?
How is your eyesight?
Have you had any shooting lessons (this does not include Hunter Safety, NRA safe gun handling, or someone simply handing you a gun on the range and telling you to pull the trigger).

What is it that you want? Why a high capacity magazine?

If you want to shoot a bird, a deer, across the street, or down the block, you don't need a .223. Why not a Ruger 10/22 .22 win mag that uses a round with the same terminal ballistics as a .223 at 100 yards?

The main thing is that you need to find what works for you. So, go look up .223 semi auto rifles in the back of a gun magazine, find a range nearby and try them out. If you can't rent one, then find someone who is in a local club and will let you try his. Can't do this either? Too bad. If you want to shoot in low light, then try a mini 14 and an ar15 in low light and when you cannot see the iron sights. You will have an interesting experience.

If you went to buy a car for under $15,000, you would go out and test drive, right? Do the same things re firearms.

Javelin Man · November 7, 2005, 10:28 PM

I saw a Saiga for $269 yesterday in .223 at Dunham's. I'm not sure if there is a high capacity magazine for it or not. I'm waiting for the new ones to be imported so I can get another 7.62./39.

TPAW · November 7, 2005, 10:42 PM

azredhawk44

Quote:

The mini-14 is a miniaturization of the M-14 rifle, a very accurate rifle with an effective range beyond 600 meters.

Your speaking of the M-14 I hope! Certainly NOT the Mini 14 when it comes to accuracy!

TPAW · November 7, 2005, 10:49 PM

Nicotine

Quote:

Correct me if I'm wrong(I may very well be) but isn't M-16 just a military designation for an AR-15? The main difference being full-auto control parts?

If my memory serves me correct from my Vietnam days, the AR or CAR-15 was the shorter version of the M-16. Shorter barrel and telescoping stock. They were both full and semi auto.

tINY · November 7, 2005, 11:28 PM

The Rugger AC-556 may be a little less spendy than an M16. Most of the other 223 asault rifles (like a Sig 550, CAL, AR18, Stoner 63) are really expensive - if you can find a transferable one.

If you want an inexpensive 223 semi auto rifle with a detachable magazine, the Mini-14 and the AR-180b are nice. If you want accuracy too, you may have to spend a little more.....

-tINY

Pointer · November 7, 2005, 11:52 PM

Veper

Out of North Salt Lake, Utah

Very upgraded SKS type in 223

About $550

too many choices!? · November 8, 2005, 12:48 AM

I built my AR-15 Pistol(PDW) for around 650 with the transfer from FFL and the shipping on the parts kit

. To build a firearm with a rifle length barrel would have some how been even cheaper, which took me by surprise....

XDoctor · November 8, 2005, 02:34 AM

If you can find one, Norinco made one of their Mak rifles in .223.

There happens to be a pre ban version available on Gunbroker right now. http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=39757182

If you can find one that was made during the ban with the thumbhole stock they're MUCH less expensive. My 7.62 was $350 in a pawn shop.

Pilot · November 8, 2005, 10:00 AM

Quote:

I was under the impression that someone asking for a cheap assault rifle could get a straight answer here, not a bunch of word games and semantics.

Well Nicotine, the gentleman asked why the M16 was considerably more in response to another post. I explained why. What's wrong with that?

Another suggestion - the new Armalite AR-180B, available for less than $600.

Mikeyboy · November 8, 2005, 11:28 AM

Thanks for the input. To explain, I have come to the realization that I have no time to go hunting anymore (where I live most rifle hunting is a 3 to 4 hour drive and a overnight stay). My original home arsenal consisted of a shotgun for home defense/bird and small game, and lever action 30/30 for deer hunting. I decided after several years of no deer hunting to sell off the 30/30 and I bought a 9mm pistol (my first handgun), since my wife was not too good with the 12-gauge shotgun. Well since that time I go to the pistol range regularly and enjoy it. I do miss shooting a rifle, heck I have been shooting rifles all my life. I also feel like something is missing in my collection, the trifecta, rifle, shotgun, and pistol. If the "you know what" hits the fan, all I have is short distance weapons. Now why .223, simply my indoor pistol range allows .223 frangible, meaning that I could practice indoors as well as going to the outdoor ranges. I respect 7.62x39 weapons and could easily get an SKS or an AK-47 for cheap, however I would only be shooting it outdoors when the weather is nice, and with not a lot of free time that means it would get real limited use. So my options are .223 or a rifle that shoots a smaller round like a Ruger 10/22 , or perhaps a rifle that shoots pistol rounds. Before I posted the question, all I knew about .223 semiauto rifle prices was that I could get a Mini-14 at Walmart for a little over $300 or I could raid the kids college fund and get a used M4 or M-16 for over $10,000 and have my wife kill me in my sleep.

KaceCoyote · November 8, 2005, 12:10 PM

The Su-16 is not a polymer variant of the AR-15. Totally different rifle, little incommon.

Donaldo · November 8, 2005, 01:41 PM

I gotta say, I had a chance to look at an SU16 the other day when I purchased my Yugo SKS, and it looked A LOT like an m-16.

Now granted, it's been years since the last time I handled and stripped a M16 and I didn't strip the SU16. But the bolt carrier, bolt, breech lugs, etc., made it look a lot like a restocked M16/AR15 to me.

November 7, 2005, 05:28 PM	#1
Mikeyboy Senior Member Join Date: October 31, 2005 Posts: 1,231	Cheap .223 assault rifle Besides the Ruger Mini 14, are there any other cheap .223 rifles out there that takes high capacity mags. Just curious. I would like to eventually get a .223 rifle new and the Mini-14 is one option, but I hear it is not real accurate. I'm thinking of spending under $500, well out of the range of a good used M-16.

November 7, 2005, 05:41 PM	#4
azredhawk44 Junior member Join Date: September 28, 2005 Location: Mesa, AZ Posts: 6,465	Mini-14 accuracy The mini-14 is a miniaturization of the M-14 rifle, a very accurate rifle with an effective range beyond 600 meters. Granted the M14/M1A uses .308 rather than .223... I've found all the mini's I've shot to be more accurate than the AR's I've shot. But I have long suffered from a lack of tactitude

November 7, 2005, 10:08 PM	#14
bdc Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Posts: 60	another beginner question The typical thing is that people ask what equipment is both good and cheap. In the real world, skill level counts for much more. Do you know why you want a .223? If you don't then you need to sit down and talk with some one about the better questions and then rent and try out firearms. A firearm is simply a tool. To choose a tool, you need to know who is going to use it what it is going to be used for when it will be used why it will be used and how it will be used. Range? Target? Low light or daylight? How is your eyesight? Have you had any shooting lessons (this does not include Hunter Safety, NRA safe gun handling, or someone simply handing you a gun on the range and telling you to pull the trigger). What is it that you want? Why a high capacity magazine? If you want to shoot a bird, a deer, across the street, or down the block, you don't need a .223. Why not a Ruger 10/22 .22 win mag that uses a round with the same terminal ballistics as a .223 at 100 yards? The main thing is that you need to find what works for you. So, go look up .223 semi auto rifles in the back of a gun magazine, find a range nearby and try them out. If you can't rent one, then find someone who is in a local club and will let you try his. Can't do this either? Too bad. If you want to shoot in low light, then try a mini 14 and an ar15 in low light and when you cannot see the iron sights. You will have an interesting experience. If you went to buy a car for under $15,000, you would go out and test drive, right? Do the same things re firearms.

November 7, 2005, 10:28 PM	#15
Javelin Man Senior Member Join Date: June 15, 2005 Location: Northwest Ohio Posts: 154	.223 I saw a Saiga for $269 yesterday in .223 at Dunham's. I'm not sure if there is a high capacity magazine for it or not. I'm waiting for the new ones to be imported so I can get another 7.62./39.

November 8, 2005, 12:48 AM	#20
too many choices!? Senior Member Join Date: December 19, 2004 Posts: 371	Bend to the Wind, and get the AR... I built my AR-15 Pistol(PDW) for around 650 with the transfer from FFL and the shipping on the parts kit . To build a firearm with a rifle length barrel would have some how been even cheaper, which took me by surprise....

November 7, 2005, 05:34 PM	#2
Sam Cade Member Join Date: August 25, 2005 Location: on the banks of the mighty Cumberland Posts: 40	Well, A used M-16 will run you $4,000-8,000.

November 7, 2005, 05:37 PM	#3
azredhawk44 Junior member Join Date: September 28, 2005 Location: Mesa, AZ Posts: 6,465	Look for an SU-16 by KelTec. Their MSRP is out of your price range, but they NEVER sell for their MSRP. Should be able to find one around $300. It is a polymer-variant of an AR-15 that uses the same mags. Also look into Norinco.

November 7, 2005, 05:54 PM	#5
Handy Junior member Join Date: August 31, 2001 Posts: 8,785	A decent kit and receiver will cost you just over $500 for a very standard A2 type AR-15. This is far and away the best value in a .223 rifle.

November 7, 2005, 05:58 PM	#6
shaggy Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 2004 Posts: 1,519	A well used M16 will run far more than $4000-8000; more like $9,000-12,000 An AR15, on the other hand, can be had for a fraction of that price. Maybe $600 or so. You might also consider a 5.56 AK variant, but comming in under $500 with a couple mags will be difficult if not impossible. If you went to one in 7.62x39, you could do it though. Handy already beat me to the punch but FWIW I'd buy an AR15 lower and buy the rest of the gun as a complete kit or as individual parts, as you can afford it. You'll end up with a far better weapon than if you just buy what you can afford now. A lower can be had for about $100. J&T has complete kits (less the lower receiver) for about $500.

November 7, 2005, 07:24 PM	#8
Nicotine Junior member Join Date: June 20, 2005 Location: Tulsa, OKlahoma Posts: 397	www.gunsnstuff.net check this site, last I looked they had a 16" AR-15 carbine for $500.

November 7, 2005, 07:41 PM	#9
Russ538 Senior Member Join Date: August 18, 2005 Location: PA Posts: 229	What about a WASR-3? http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/c...AK_Rifles.html It's cheap and accepts high capacity magazines. As far as accuracy goes, I'm not really familiar with the numbers. I'm thinking 5 inch groups at 100 yds, but definitely not positive on that. I'm sure someone here could tell you if you really wanted to know.

November 7, 2005, 07:49 PM	#10
Nicotine Junior member Join Date: June 20, 2005 Location: Tulsa, OKlahoma Posts: 397	SAR-3 would be nice, but you would have to replace the trigger components right away. I think the WASR-3 got cancelled did it not? Besides, I'm not much of a STAMPED reciever fan.

November 7, 2005, 08:07 PM	#12
Sam Cade Member Join Date: August 25, 2005 Location: on the banks of the mighty Cumberland Posts: 40	Nicotine: Ak type rifles are supposed to be stamped. A milled rec. AK offers no advantage over a stamped rifle unless you consider weight to be a good thing. People will pay $10k for a full auto M16 because that is simply how much they cost. ( No machineguns manufactured after '86 are allowed to be sold to civvies, you have a decreasing supply of transferable rifles and an increasing demand.)

November 7, 2005, 11:28 PM	#18
tINY Senior Member Join Date: April 26, 2005 Location: Orygun Posts: 2,589	The Rugger AC-556 may be a little less spendy than an M16. Most of the other 223 asault rifles (like a Sig 550, CAL, AR18, Stoner 63) are really expensive - if you can find a transferable one. If you want an inexpensive 223 semi auto rifle with a detachable magazine, the Mini-14 and the AR-180b are nice. If you want accuracy too, you may have to spend a little more..... -tINY

November 7, 2005, 11:52 PM	#19
Pointer Senior Member Join Date: April 8, 2005 Location: Utah Posts: 2,559	Veper Out of North Salt Lake, Utah Very upgraded SKS type in 223 About $550

November 8, 2005, 02:34 AM	#21
XDoctor Senior Member Join Date: May 30, 2004 Posts: 221	If you can find one, Norinco made one of their Mak rifles in .223. There happens to be a pre ban version available on Gunbroker right now. http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=39757182 If you can find one that was made during the ban with the thumbhole stock they're MUCH less expensive. My 7.62 was $350 in a pawn shop.

November 8, 2005, 11:28 AM	#23
Mikeyboy Senior Member Join Date: October 31, 2005 Posts: 1,231	Thanks for the input. To explain, I have come to the realization that I have no time to go hunting anymore (where I live most rifle hunting is a 3 to 4 hour drive and a overnight stay). My original home arsenal consisted of a shotgun for home defense/bird and small game, and lever action 30/30 for deer hunting. I decided after several years of no deer hunting to sell off the 30/30 and I bought a 9mm pistol (my first handgun), since my wife was not too good with the 12-gauge shotgun. Well since that time I go to the pistol range regularly and enjoy it. I do miss shooting a rifle, heck I have been shooting rifles all my life. I also feel like something is missing in my collection, the trifecta, rifle, shotgun, and pistol. If the "you know what" hits the fan, all I have is short distance weapons. Now why .223, simply my indoor pistol range allows .223 frangible, meaning that I could practice indoors as well as going to the outdoor ranges. I respect 7.62x39 weapons and could easily get an SKS or an AK-47 for cheap, however I would only be shooting it outdoors when the weather is nice, and with not a lot of free time that means it would get real limited use. So my options are .223 or a rifle that shoots a smaller round like a Ruger 10/22 , or perhaps a rifle that shoots pistol rounds. Before I posted the question, all I knew about .223 semiauto rifle prices was that I could get a Mini-14 at Walmart for a little over $300 or I could raid the kids college fund and get a used M4 or M-16 for over $10,000 and have my wife kill me in my sleep.

November 8, 2005, 12:10 PM	#24
KaceCoyote Member Join Date: June 9, 2005 Posts: 51	The Su-16 is not a polymer variant of the AR-15. Totally different rifle, little incommon.

November 8, 2005, 01:41 PM	#25
Donaldo Senior Member Join Date: November 8, 2005 Location: Southern Commiefornia Posts: 220	Ummm I gotta say, I had a chance to look at an SU16 the other day when I purchased my Yugo SKS, and it looked A LOT like an m-16. Now granted, it's been years since the last time I handled and stripped a M16 and I didn't strip the SU16. But the bolt carrier, bolt, breech lugs, etc., made it look a lot like a restocked M16/AR15 to me.