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Old November 7, 2005, 02:38 AM   #1
Sir William
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OK, French-style Riots. No 911, YOUR neighbourhood.

OK. Theoretical query. The state NG is busy with a natural disaster, most of the active miltary is deployed to foreign lands, the state police, city police and sheriff are all understaffed due to reservists serving and there are limited resources. A event triggers violence. The violence grows and spreads from one community to another. EMS and fire service suspend responses into areas of violence citing lack of police protection. Atrocities are ongoing. The police simply say you are on your own. You hear what sounds vaguely like a football game coming closer. You begin seeing smoke and can identify shots being fired. Bug out or stay put?
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Old November 7, 2005, 02:43 AM   #2
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Bug out, get my girlfriend, get to the ranch, where the rest of the guns and other supplies are.
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Old November 7, 2005, 03:25 AM   #3
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Lock up the house tight and stay put. Locked and cocked!
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Old November 7, 2005, 03:35 AM   #4
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1. Lock everything.
2. Hopefully the son's here. Then, I hand him the AR with 7 mags, and I grab the AK with 5 mags; it goes to the wife. The M1A gets loaded;hopefully I'll have more than the five mags I have now, loaded with ball ammo.

For the first shots, though, the Winchester 1300 with 00 buck will do; I want to stock up on some Aguila mini-slugs for the beast.

Son gets the Colt Enhanced, I get the 1911 NM pistol (hardball gun), wife gets the Glock.

Anyone who gets within 50 feet of the door gets one warning. Any hostile action and it's party time.
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Old November 7, 2005, 03:59 AM   #5
stratus
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Reading Powderman's post, I suddenly realize, with a creeping state of anxiety, that I need more guns.

I'll try to scoop up as many as possible before the zombies and giant spiders get here.
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Old November 7, 2005, 04:35 AM   #6
seth
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Quote:
Reading Powderman's post, I suddenly realize, with a creeping state of anxiety, that I need more guns.
I'll try to scoop up as many as possible before the zombies and giant spiders get here.


I like how Powderman put it; "anyone within 50 feet gets a warning. Any hostile action=party time."

For me, if a riot were to break in the middle of Honolulu (highly unlikely), I'd....get on my motorcycle and get the hell on the freeway heading West as soon as I could, before **** hit the fan.

If I was 21 and had my future Springfield XD-9 and 6 inch Taurus .44 Raging Bull? I'm with Powderman on this one. I'd get on my balcony with the XD shoved in my pants. Raging Bull in hand loaded with the hottest .44 magnum. Anyone within....100 feet (I don't like invasions of my personal bubble) gets a shout. People proceeding to cross this 100 foot imaginary barrier gets a .44 round launched from my "Brazilian POS" aimed at their pelvis.
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Old November 7, 2005, 10:45 AM   #7
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Hmm -- I'm armed. My neighbor is armed. The guy 3 houses down is armed. Those are the ones I know of, anyway. Sounds like we've got the makings of a local neighborhood patrol, armed.

So, if the cops/NG can't take control, I guess that we'll have to do the jobs ourselves.

One problem with bugging out around here, in the sort of scenario brought up -- what makes me think that I'd be any safer bugging out than staying put? I'm in suburbia, surrounded by miles and miles of more suburbia. If it is happening here, and it is a general conflagration, there's no reason to believe that if I tried to bug out that I'd even make it to the freeway, which is miles away. Just think about all of the other people trying to bug out, the traffic arteries would be jammed. Lots of people essentially being caught out in the open with no means of fleeing, easy pickings for the maurauding gangs of thugs. No, thanks. I believe that we can take control of our neighborhood with what we have on hand.
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Old November 7, 2005, 11:23 AM   #8
springmom
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GB in GA has THAT right!

Hurricane Rita taught me about the ease of "bugging out". Ha. If you want to sit on the highway and let 'em catch you in your car.... stuck....

I would probably stay put. Between me, the hubster, our son, the constable across the street (of course he'd be at work, but work might be our neighborhood...) and a couple of guys nearby, we too have a "neighborhood patrol". Of course if there are 50 of them, and five or six of us, well, that's not great odds.

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Old November 7, 2005, 11:37 AM   #9
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Of course if there are 50 of them, and five or six of us, well, that's not great odds.
A couple of AR15's with 10 or 15 fully loaded 30 round magazines per rifle will make short work of your 50 rioters...
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Old November 7, 2005, 11:43 AM   #10
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I would stay put, my neighbors are pretty tight with one another so we can do a good job policing ourselves, however unfortunately I would say only 50% of us have weapons. One problem in a situation like that is I would have to have a "rescue mission" to get my parents and relatives to my home because they live in a more urban area. I think the suburbs and rural areas will be ok, but in a situation like that the cities and large urban towns will go to hell in a handbasket.
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Old November 7, 2005, 11:46 AM   #11
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Of course if there are 50 of them, and five or six of us, well, that's not great odds.
Only 50? Those are GREAT odds.

Remember that in any type of mass civil disobedience, there are only a few main instigators. Sometimes, they're in the front, sometimes they're not. Usually, they're cowards, especially when the action they advocate is lawless.

Hence, my response.

You should be able to tell if the mob has hostile or destructive intent long before they get to you. As soon as they are in vocal range (a bullhorn might be in order), one warning is issued: "Stop! Leave us alone, or I will shoot!" At that time, the safeties come off.

You should extablish a point of no return--a limit that the mob can not cross. Once they start crossing that with obviously hostile intent, BR Syndrome will take over. (BR=Black Rifle )

Take aimed shots at first. Once the mob sees people falling, they should disperse post haste. If not, that's where rapid fire comes in.
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Old November 7, 2005, 11:52 AM   #12
john in jax
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I think I'd stay put. I've got enough guns for me, the wife and some neighbors . . . I think we could make any rioters a lot more interested in some other block or neighborhood.

I am not advocating going after rioters vigilantee style, but I am not about to let a mob get anywhere near my family without firing everything I've got at them.

As for warning shots . . . I dunno, maybe . . . I keep remembering those Korean store owners on the roofs of their stores during the CA/Rodney King riots. One particular piece of footage had something like 6 Koreans on the roof armed with what looked like 28" bbl shotguns shooting it out with the rioters - - that's one heck of a firefight!
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Old November 7, 2005, 11:53 AM   #13
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I would hole up at home; if you try to bug out after the "festivities" have started, you run the risk of being caught in traffic gridlock - not at all a good spot to try to fight/defend from.

If there were some lead time before things got really ugly, I'd go to Lowe's, buy sheets of 1/2" plywood, and board up all the windows/doors like a hurricane was coming, leaving a back door open for egress in case of fire.

I would patrol my little 1 acre kingdom armed with an AR15 and wearing an assault vest stuffed to the gills with loaded 30 round mags. Anyone that I don't know that comes on my property gets one verbal warning to leave and then gets smoked if they advance on me.

That would be my solution. Maybe it's not the perfect plan, but IMO it's a good plan. I hope it never comes to that, but you never know - we live in "interesting" times; anything is possible these days.
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Old November 7, 2005, 12:57 PM   #14
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Bug out. Maybe I could avoid the shooters by locking down, but mine is a frame home. Sooner or later, someone's going to torch it. Then what?

Interestingly, a mini version of this happened here back when (60's, I think) Racial tensions were high and a group of about a hundred marched through town, set a few fires, and generally raised hell. They approached an area of town we call the south end, that's separated from the rest of town by a high bank with railroad tracks. Only entry is via an underpass. The south end was populated by mostly good ol' boys, veterans and deer hunters. When the crowd approached the underpass, a bunch of guys with deer rifles suddenly appeared in the underpass and up on the bank. Bolts racked, and the crowd reversed direction... fast . The trick here was that these guys were crazy (I work with a couple of them today), most certainly would shoot, and the crowd knew it. No bluffing there!
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Old November 7, 2005, 01:08 PM   #15
springmom
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Progunner, I'm just thinking too small!

You do have a point

What we did, when it looked like Rita would come to call right over our heads, was to LOAD UP on ammunition for the rifles, shotgun, and pistols. It would have taken several guns, but there were certainly well more than 50 rounds available. What we couldn't have done was do really rapid fire for a very sustained period (I guess with rapid fire, 30-60 seconds is "sustained") Of course, a mob of looters in a residential neighborhood is less likely than in a commercial area (there's a lot more of interest in downtown Houston than in suburban Harris county). What we WERE ready to do, was to take on up to five or six if need be.

Now that youngest son also has his .20 gauge, that would go up a bit.

(But I might get the AR15's for fun!)

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Old November 7, 2005, 01:24 PM   #16
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Powderman has actually got it right. A mob of 50 or so is not really a big problem for 5 or 6 determined, capable defenders, especially if the defenders have rifles (or shotguns at closer range) and know how to use them. For that matter, a platoon (of about 40) or so of well trained and equiped soldiers can control a mob of thousands. Even 3 or 4 defenders can handle it (the 50 or so mob), although it gets dicey providing covering fire while reloading when you are under manned and the shooting starts. Anyway, point is, numbers aren't all that important. Mobs are by their nature cowards, and will go to the easiest prey. They are by their nature ill trained and ill lead. They do not have the motivation of protecting family & property, they have no reason to hold their ground. It is relatively easy to spot and target the leaders & instigators, and once those are neutralized the mob will disperse.
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Old November 7, 2005, 01:29 PM   #17
imur_huckle_berry
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I would stay put

Lock down, then lock and load
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Old November 7, 2005, 01:37 PM   #18
sdb777
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Powderman?

You forgot the grenade launcher!

Nice collection though. Have you thought of moving, I need a few more people in my neighborhood patrol.

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Old November 7, 2005, 01:46 PM   #19
azredhawk44
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Our neighborhood has walls all around it except for the 3 entrances. There are about 150 homes inside. Makes for a nice little village... Our HOA is fairly amiable and everyone gets along, so I don't see any problem getting the neighborhood organized quickly to secure the entry points.

The neat thing is, many of the adjoining little block neighborhoods are similarly structured with small, effective HOA's.

I can very easily see alliances forming in our part of town and a militia formed very quickly.

I would be most interested in securing the nearest grocery stores from looters as a first tactic.

There is also a hospital about 2-3 blocks away that would make sense to secure, if they'd let us.
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Old November 7, 2005, 02:16 PM   #20
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For some reason, I happen to think of Kent State (You do remember Kent State, don't you?) rather than the riots in Washington, D.C., even though I live just across the river (plus about 20 miles) in Fairfax County, Virginia. In that case, the National Guard was on hand but one point I want to make is that after two or three days of trouble in town, before the National Guard showed up, it is said "there was shotgun behind every window in town." That is undoubtedly an exaggeration but it shows that the situation had gotton out of hand in the eyes of the townspeople.

Another point is that, whether you think such people are cowardly or badly led or mislead is neither here nor there. In that particular case I believe the individuals involved as rioters or demonstrators failed to realize the seriousness of what they were doing or threatening to do--but maybe they did. Their motivation was very likely to have been a lot different than the rioters in France at the moment or in D.C. in 1968 (or where ever you care to mention). Another obvious factor is the supposed anonomity of the rioters, as individuals, a factor reinforced by the way that many rioters wear masks or otherwise cover their faces, so that they may attempt things they would not as individuals, for whatever reason.
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Old November 7, 2005, 02:55 PM   #21
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I would stay put. Based on my geography and community.

We live on high ground --- a hill in the highest point of Los Angeles, with 50 - 75% of our boundary bounded by the Pacific Ocean. On the part that's not bounded by the ocean, there are only 5 main roads that the bad guys can use; everywhere else are hills and woods. And in my community of a couple hundred homes, there is only one main access road.

We have families that are well-armed and we can organize easily. We already have a community association, and a neighborhood watch and can easily communicate with each other among the 200-home community.

For any group to have a chance against us, I think they'd have to number in the thousands if not tens of thousands, just because of our position and arms. And they'd have to be well-organized, skilled, determined and well-armed. Some helicopters and airplanes might help against us, with some decent sized bombs or missiles.

And as a backup if our defenses fall, we can jump on boats and hightail it out, on the Pacific Ocean.
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Old November 7, 2005, 04:25 PM   #22
seth
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And as a backup if our defenses fall, we can jump on boats and hightail it out, on the Pacific Ocean.
.....and arrive on Waikiki beach on our south shore in beautiful Hawaii!

Then, you can help me fight off the rioting in Honolulu that spread from your town
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Old November 7, 2005, 05:45 PM   #23
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Okay, I go to each neighbor's house, up and down the street (or call them) and tell them to get any firearm the have and bring it to a location down the street between our houses and the rioting. Anybody that doesn't have a gun of their own, they can borrow one of mine or someone else's. We use our cars to barracade the street, some of us get up on roof tops, some of us get behind the car barracade and open fire on rioters when their "football game" gets within range. We would also have some of our neighbors on the other end of the street taking similar positions.

We would keep the women and children barracaded up in one house at the center between each barracade locked in the house with a gun or two of their own with them to shoot any rioter who comes through the door if they get past us.

We would keep this position having a few men routinely check our houses up and down the street for rioters who have hopped a back fence from another street or something of that sort.

We would keep this postion fortified (between all of our houses, we should have enough food and water to last a good while) until law and order around the rest of the city has been restored.

Alone, our household has 2 remington 5 shot 12 gauge semi automatic shotguns, a single shot 12 gauge, a 14 round .22 caliber semi auto rifle, a 5 shot bolt action remington 30.06 rifle, an M-1 Carbine with four 50 round magazines and one fifteen round magazine, two Colt Official Police .38 pistols, One Colt Detective Special .38 pistol, one Springfield .45 G.I. Automatic, one S&W Model 10 4 inch, one S&W Model 10 two inch, one Cimmeron .45 Long pistol, one 1851 Navy .36, one Walker .44 Dragoon, and one S&W Model 28 Highway Patrolman .357 Magnum. ALL of those weapons and anything anyone else has available on the street would be in someone's hands (yes even the 2 black powder handguns...every shot counts ) and put to use against a rioter.
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Old November 7, 2005, 05:57 PM   #24
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stay put

I'm lucky i live in a long valley with just one road running through it. So with the help of the neighbors we could block off each end and hold for a while.If push comes to shove and we had to bug out a major interstate isn't 3 miles away. If that wasn't an option then i would have to head up the mountain behind the house to hold the high ground and have a turkey shoot.
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Old November 7, 2005, 08:03 PM   #25
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Wear ski mask and dark outfit. Advance to a defensible position 500 yards from targets. Take out 5 leaders or peaple in front. Fall back 50 - 100 yards and reload. Repeat as needed...
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