The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Conference Center > Law and Civil Rights > Legal and Political

 
 
Thread Tools
Old November 2, 2005, 06:10 PM   #1
Dust_Devil
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 5, 2005
Location: Arizona
Posts: 235
Buying body armor

Why do so many distributors of body armor have a strict rule of selling only to those of a Military/LEO/Security agency while there are a few who sell to anyone with a credit card. Bulletproofme.com is an example of a no hassel purchase.
Is there a legal basis behind this or are those who don't sell to regular civilians just afraid of legal problems if a crime happens with their product involved? Or are alot of these body armor distributors happen to be in a state where body armor sales are restricted.
Dust_Devil is offline  
Old November 2, 2005, 08:21 PM   #2
boofus
Junior member
 
Join Date: May 18, 2004
Location: JesusLand,TX
Posts: 371
Same reason real military MREs are marked Commercial Sale is Unlawful.

The government wants to keep their toys and not share with mere peasants.
boofus is offline  
Old November 2, 2005, 08:46 PM   #3
Dust_Devil
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 5, 2005
Location: Arizona
Posts: 235
But how does that answer why some distributors DO sell body armor to the "mere peasants" while others don't? It's either unlawful or it isn't.

I can only see individual states not allowing sales where distributors not being able to ship to citizens in a place like New York, where I believe it is illegal, but the states that do allow citizens to purchase body armor, what stops distributors from selling to them?
Dust_Devil is offline  
Old November 2, 2005, 09:38 PM   #4
459
Junior member
 
Join Date: August 29, 2005
Posts: 290
probably liability issues..from armour shelf life to training, illegal in areas..all that sort of thing...I mean outside of LE or military or security who really needs it?
459 is offline  
Old November 2, 2005, 10:00 PM   #5
Rebar
Junior member
 
Join Date: September 9, 2004
Location: MA
Posts: 620
Imagine if you sell body armor, and someone wearing it was in an LA bank robbery type shootout. You will be sued by everyone within a 10 mile radius. It's all about liability. If you do a brisk business with military/LE, why take that chance?
Rebar is offline  
Old November 2, 2005, 10:29 PM   #6
Dust_Devil
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 5, 2005
Location: Arizona
Posts: 235
Quote:
probably liability issues..from armour shelf life to training, illegal in areas..all that sort of thing...I mean outside of LE or military or security who really needs it?
Outside of LE or military who really needs a large collection of hi-power firearms?

Outside a professional race car driver who really needs a car that can go 180mph?

.....and so on and so on

Restricting sales of a product to someone just because you don't think they need it is not right.

Imagine a young male going into a motorcycle shop and wanting to buy the fastest street bike on the market and the salesguy says he won't sell to the bike to him because there is no reason why he needs a bike that can go 150 plus mph and doesn't want to be liable if the kid gets killed while driving it that fast.
Dust_Devil is offline  
Old November 2, 2005, 10:31 PM   #7
blackmind
Junior member
 
Join Date: July 21, 2005
Location: West Palm Beach, FL
Posts: 1,224
There is no question in my mind that bullet-proof body armor should be legal for sale to and use by civilians. WHO IS THE GOVERNMENT to say that a person who fears harm from what society has become cannot protect himself IN SUCH A PASSIVE WAY?!

If they are concerned that someone will armor himself up go on a crime spree, and that's the reason NO ONE can legally have body armor, I say that's bunk. The same argument could be made against the GUNS themselves, not just the clothing that might protect a criminal from the police if he runs amok.

I mean, you can't hurt someone with a bullet-proof vest; all it can really do is slow down the police's ability to stop you. So the police, through the law, prohibit everyone from wearing body armor that might help save them from a criminal, just so that they will be able to be brought down by police?

Well, I guess that with the abysmal hit ratios that the police turn in, they need the help?


-blackmind
blackmind is offline  
Old November 2, 2005, 10:35 PM   #8
459
Junior member
 
Join Date: August 29, 2005
Posts: 290
lol where did i say you shouldnt be able to buy it...I said dont need it!

seriously if life is getting so nasty that you gotta wear body armour to go to the local 7-11 maybe its time to move? or evaluate why you are constantly putting yourself in dangerous situations..
459 is offline  
Old November 2, 2005, 10:38 PM   #9
blackmind
Junior member
 
Join Date: July 21, 2005
Location: West Palm Beach, FL
Posts: 1,224
Didn't say that either of those things was true of me.

But what of people who MIGHT wish to wear it -- even if it's 'cause they're a little paranoid? Who gets to make the decision that they're not allowed to? And is that decision made by the legislatures on the sole basis that they want the people to be completely vulnerable to police gunfire if and when the police come to need to shoot them?


-blackmind
blackmind is offline  
Old November 2, 2005, 10:40 PM   #10
459
Junior member
 
Join Date: August 29, 2005
Posts: 290
yeah sure if they want it let them buy it...just seems like a waste of money if you get shot in the head huh?
459 is offline  
Old November 2, 2005, 11:28 PM   #11
Eghad
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 28, 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 6,231
Some places that sell the stuff give the military and LEOs priority because thats who needs it. I imagine you could make a case for yourself if you had a police report indicating someone had tried to kill you.
__________________
Have a nice day at the range

NRA Life Member
Eghad is offline  
Old November 3, 2005, 09:13 AM   #12
sendec
Junior member
 
Join Date: April 18, 2005
Posts: 517
Ford wont sell you a Police Interceptor, either. They and the body armor companies just need to put their resources in priority.

I think liability has a lot to do with it, not that it would be misused, but that it would be improperly used - not replaced when needed, used against an inappropriate threat, all things that can be controlled when selling to an agency.
sendec is offline  
Old November 3, 2005, 10:29 AM   #13
dfaugh
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 17, 2002
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 1,715
My company

sells a variety of gun/hunting related items, including many military-type and LEO-type items. We sell body armor to any one that wants to purchase it.
__________________
"If you Listen to Fools, the Mob Rules"

"No one has the answer, but one thing is true.
You'e got to turn on evil, when its coming after you.
You've gotta face it down,and when it tries to hide,
you've got to go in after it, and never be denied.
Time is running out...Let's roll.
Let's roll for freedom, let's roll for love.
We're going after satan, on the wings of a dove.
Let's roll for freedom, let's roll for truth.
Let's not let our children grow up fearful in their youth."
dfaugh is offline  
Old November 3, 2005, 10:58 AM   #14
Double Naught Spy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 8, 2001
Location: Forestburg, Montague County, Texas
Posts: 10,346
I would like to nominate 459 as TFLs Rocket Scientist For a Day Winner for the following comment...
Quote:
yeah sure if they want it let them buy it...just seems like a waste of money if you get shot in the head huh?
Dude, if you get shot in the head, I doubt you will be devoting much time to lamenting the stupidity of buying body armor, that is, wasting your money, and not buying protection for your head as well.

The North Hollywood bank robbers didn't get shot in their heads by the police and they were told the bandits had armor and to shoot for the head. One did suffer a shot to the head, but it was self inflicted.
__________________
"If you look through your scope and see your shoe, aim higher."
-- said to me by my 11 year old daughter before going out for hogs 8/13/2011
Double Naught Spy is offline  
Old November 3, 2005, 03:24 PM   #15
mec360
Junior Member
 
Join Date: February 24, 2005
Posts: 4
Quote:
I mean outside of LE or military or security who really needs it?
Need is a funny thing and is often a want disguised. However. soft armor would be a comfort to, for example, a clerk at a 7-11. Denying such an otherwise law-abiding person armor would be unconscionable.

In my experience, bad guys often carry inexpensive handguns in minor calibers; should one of them decide to shoot you and should his gun happen to function correctly*, you would stand a much better chance at surviving the attack if you are wearing armor.

*Bad guy gun malf's are, happily, fairly common occurrences. I saw the after action pics of a would-be gangsta shooting where the floorplate on the magazine in the bad guy's cheapo Ingram M-10 copy fell off; the ground was littered with live .45 cartridges and one long spring. The frustrated assailant ran away.
mec360 is offline  
Old November 3, 2005, 04:51 PM   #16
Sulaco2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 5, 2005
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,239
Some states may have laws covering armor and there is Federal law that makes it illegal for a convicted felon to buy armor across state lines (?), but not as I understand it within home state. If I were a company selling over the net or by mail I would want some proof that whom I am selling to is not a felon and skip the civil liability if things go south.
Sulaco2 is offline  
Old November 3, 2005, 05:56 PM   #17
leadcounsel
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 8, 2005
Location: Tacoma, WA
Posts: 1,735
I bought a level IIA vest from www.bulletproofme.com and was very happy with their knowledge, convenience, and the product. I thought I would wear it more than I do.... I wear it in spurts. It's not necessarily uncomfortable, but it gets hot wearing it in the summer and it can be difficult to conceal fully in certain attire. I don't have a particularly dangerous job nor do I live in a particularly dangerous area. That said, I do live in a city of a couple million people and there are shootings reported daily. I carry a gun so therefore justify wearing body armor. I also wear a seatbelt in a car, use safety goggles when I am using power saws, wear a helmet on a motorcycle, wear a mouthguard when I play sports, wear knee and elbow caps when I snowboard, wear a nutcup when I kickbox, etc.

I think that there are too many restrictions on what civilians can and cannot own. It's legal to own body armor in Colorado but not in many states. It's not a matter of chance, it's a matter of what's at stake.

It's cool to own it and have it available in an emergency. It's comforting to know that I have the ability to protect most of my vitals from most handgun calibers for only $500. I'd recommend getting body armor if you feel that the world is dangerous enough to own and carry a gun.
leadcounsel is offline  
Old November 3, 2005, 10:32 PM   #18
Sulaco2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 5, 2005
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,239
Did you buy the "Goldflex"? I notice they don't say what it is, except its not Kevlar? NOt the stuff Second Chance went bankrupt over is it?
Sulaco2 is offline  
 

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:15 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.10180 seconds with 7 queries