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Old November 2, 2005, 06:02 PM   #1
Quail Fat
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New Remington 700 SPS extractor broke!



I was out shooting my .300 RUM Remington 700 today at the gun range and not only did the extractor break, but the edge of the bolt near the extractor sort of flattened out with some weird peening. Yep, the gun lasted a whopping 9 rounds before farting out on me. No wonder nobody uses them to hunt dangerous game..

I don't know whether to have Remington fix the extractor or send it off to somebody to install a Sako extractor. Anybody know of a smith who can do this and what is the cost??

BTW, the dude sitting next to me with his brand new Rem 700 SPS chambered in 7mm WSM broke his extractor on the very first shot. The rangemaster said this is very common with the WSMs and the Ultra-Mags.:barf:
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Old November 2, 2005, 11:29 PM   #2
Professor
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I too know first hand of such a failure on a Remington 700. This one was about three years ago and on a 30-06.

My wish is that the 700 fans see this. The Remington is often touted as one of the best available and right up there with the Winchester, Ruger and the rest. For me, the simple fact that I may - one day - suddenly have an expensive club in my hands instead of a rifle is enough to avoid them 100%. Really.
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Old November 3, 2005, 03:33 AM   #3
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I've been looking at buying an SPS. Anyone else heard of problems with the extractors?
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Old November 3, 2005, 08:49 AM   #4
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This is a common problem with the magnum cartridges. It requires more force to extract such cases...and the Remington design is largely not up to the task. However, this is NOT a common problem with the non-magnum cartridges. My .308's never gave extraction problems....through many years of use. Obviously, Remington should have changed/ improved the design, some time ago. But, like a lot of mass-produced products...they simply went with what they had.

As to what to do....your call. If I intended to keep the rifle, if I were you, I'd have a Sako extractor installed, no question.
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Old November 3, 2005, 10:20 AM   #5
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Olaf +1, I have never had a problem with any of my Remmys but they are not magnums. I can't just remember where but I have seen advertised a modded extracor for them. Try Brownells, Lilja, and any of the custom rifle builders, It might on reflection be Stolle as they use the Rem action as the basis of their custom ones./ The Remington action is respected and used by many of the best rifle builders, just the extractor isnt perfect.
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Old November 3, 2005, 01:34 PM   #6
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Let's see. Remington has a trigger/safety problem that need serious attention, an extractor that breaks, at least on magnum rounds, and I've seen so many complaints on quality control on the later models that I'm surprised anyone will still buy one. I sure won't. I've got a few 700s and one 660. So far, no problems with the 700s but I did have to replace the extractor on the 660. After about 5,000 rounds it flat wore out.
I've gone to Winchester Model 70s. it doesn't take much to make them good shooters,a slight trigger ajustment has usually done it for me and they have a lot better extractor. Better yet, if I can find one, I buy rifles built on real Mauser 98 actions.
The 700s no longer go on serious hnts, and all my hunts are serious.
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Old November 3, 2005, 01:40 PM   #7
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Should I be worried about my dads M700 ?? He got it in 300RUM and he has shot 18 shots out of it so far without a hicup.

Mind you the bolt on my dads gun looks like it did the moment we bought it still. So I donno maybe its a bad batch ??

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Old November 3, 2005, 02:14 PM   #8
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I'm thinking of getting a 700 Police...now, I don't know. Does anyone know if the Police models have better (machined) extractors?
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Old November 3, 2005, 02:21 PM   #9
AZ Jeff
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Quote:
I'm thinking of getting a 700 Police...now, I don't know. Does anyone know if the Police models have better (machined) extractors?
NO. ALL M700's use the same basic extractor design, and it IS the weak link in the rifle. They don't break OFTEN, but if something on a M700 is gonna break, it's gonna be the extractor.

In fact, some gunsmiths make a business of installing/converting M700 bolts to use Sako extractors. That says something about the M700's extractor design.
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Old November 3, 2005, 03:12 PM   #10
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Not to get into a debate of any kind....which I refuse to do...

But, the "problems' with the trigger/ safety of the Rem. are greatly exaggerated. The "unintended firing" issue has to do with mal-adjusted trigger units...or triggers so gunked up with old oil and dirt that they malfunction. Period. All other "explanations" or claims as to the causes are unprovable nonsense. Now, that is NOT to say that the Rem. design is the best...or even as sure as it should be. Certainly not ! It absolutely could use improvement. A safety that acts on the striker, like the original Mauser design, is the best...and would always be preferable, no question.
This issue has taken on a life of it's own on the internet, with all kinds of wild claims, almost none of which have ever been backed up with any facts. I can only revert to my experience on this. 4 different Rem. 700's and 1 model 7....all kept clean and well-cared for...with many thousands of rounds put through them....and not one problem with the trigger or safety.

Next, the "quality control" issue. This is also a bunch of hooey....which has gained legs on the internet...through each person in line parroting the exaggerated nonsense of the person before. Just like any rumour - largely baloney. The guns are built the same way they have always been...of the same materials...with the same quality control. The rumours floating around are unprovable nonsense - again not supported by any facts. The only thing that has changed is the finish of the cheaper Rem. models. Many people do not like the matte finish. I don't blame them, I don't much like it either. But, that is the FINISH - done for reasons of cost-containment. The FINISH has nothing whatever to do with the basic quality of the parts. If you don't like the matte finish, don't buy it. That's fine. But, that is no excuse for spreading drivel on the net that the quality of Rem. products has "taken a nosedive". Unsubstantiated drivel - nothing more.

Lastly, the extractor problem. This is the weak link in the 700 design....and I will never defend it. Remington should have changed this design years ago. But, as I pointed out before, the extractor problem seems to manifest itself almost exclusively with the magnum chamberings. This fact, quite obviously, indicates that the design was probably never vetted for magnum cartridges. Indeed..that is likely exactly true....because the rifle was designed before magnum rifle rounds were at all common, or popular. Does this mean that the design is OK ? H#%% no ! It is a poor design, which should have been changed years ago. There is certainly no excuse for the design failing....especially given the popularity of magnums. Remington is squarely at fault for not addressing this long ago.

So, in summary, don't always believe (and parrot) all that you hear. If you don't like Remingtons, or refuse to buy one, that is fine. That is your choice....and an entirely valid choice to make. I am not defending Remington. I am simply launching a counterstrike against all of the ubsubstantiated hooey that gets blown about websites like this one - and later taken for fact, by the uninitiated. If you've had DIRECT bad experiences with Remingtons, or any other brand, by all means, share this information (just as Quailfat has done). This is valuable to all of us. If you, on the other hand, simply wish to jump on the bandwagon...and parrot a bunch of drivel that you've heard on the net...or from your cousin Larry (whose always been a big Winchester fan...and thus has a clear motive for dissing Remington)....kindly keep this to yourself. I'd like to hear the facts....and of actual experiences.... not ranting an raving based on no factual information at all. I'm sure there are others here, who feel the same way.

***By the way, this is most certainly NOT directed at anyone here...and certainly not in response to the previous posters in this thread. As I said, this is only a preemptive counterstrike against the "jump on the bandwagon" types, who even now are likely typing furiously, making up all kinds of unproven claims on this subject. My apologies to anyone that will read this - and feel offended. If you are one of the rumour-spreaders...you know who you are. Just be honest about it, that is all I ask. ***

Last edited by Olaf; November 3, 2005 at 03:47 PM.
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Old November 3, 2005, 03:48 PM   #11
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Hummm I was thinking about this since I read what was written in this thread and originally posted.

Didnt the US Army and Marine Corps conduct studies and found that the M700 Extractor was good enough for use and that a Sako type extractor wasnt needed ??

Now I dont know about Mag's but I do belive the Marines got the long action so they can have it in both 308 and 300Win Mag. If they thought it was good enough wouldnt they have also tested it on the 300Win Mag ??

Now I know the 300RUM is claimed to have 20% more power then the 300Win Mag could that be the reason why some fail ??.

Quail tell me how many times did you fire your M700 ?? That looks like it too one hell of a beating for 9 rounds. My dads has had 18 so far in it and it still looks brand new like it was never fired. What ammo did you use ??

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Old November 3, 2005, 04:52 PM   #12
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At the risk of Olaf calling me a parrot...

I've been a NRA-certified and military range officer for the last 15 years. I get to see damned near everything that goes "bang", and some that were supposed to go "bang" but didn't, including the ones that went "kaboom".

I've seen several non-magnum Remington 700 extractors give up the ghost in those 15 years. I've seen them with my own two eyebulbs, as the range customer flags me and says there's something wrong with his rifle. Sure enough, the extractor's gone Tango Uniform. I tell them the same thing each time, either have Remington fix it, or do the Sako extractor modification.

I've seen exactly two Remingtons fire when the safety lever was moved forward. Luckily, both times the guns were on their benchrests and the bullets went into the berm, because the shooter was already in position to take the shot. These were well-maintained and pristine guns, btw. Obviously, the owners were startled when the gun fired. I would be, too. Anecdotal? Maybe, but people have died and been seriously injured by this phenomenon. Remington's answer is to crank up the trigger pull weight, and put cement on the adjustment screws. Wonderful.

That ain't all.

Quote:
ALL M700's use the same basic extractor design, and it IS the weak link in the rifle. They don't break OFTEN, but if something on a M700 is gonna break, it's gonna be the extractor.
I'd wager the bolt handle breaking off the bolt body ranks up there, too. That happens right where the bolt handle is sweated or brazed onto the bolt body with that copper colored solder.
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Old November 3, 2005, 05:53 PM   #13
AZ Jeff
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Quote:
I'd wager the bolt handle breaking off the bolt body ranks up there, too. That happens right where the bolt handle is sweated or brazed onto the bolt body with that copper colored solder.
Now, Gewehr, I DO believe the M700 is a bit overrated, but I would not go so far as to say they have a whole rash of shortcomings, and I think talking about brazed bolt handles is just "piling on".

They HAVE had safety issues, not doubt. The ARE known for the extractor failing. However, brazed bolt handles have been used by other makers too, and with great success.

BTW, the extractor design used on the M700 is also used on the Remington M742/7400 autoloader series, and on the M760/7600 pump series rifles as well. It is known to break in them as well. It's just a poor design.

Further, it's RIVETTED into the bolthead, and the rivet must be ground out to replace it. It's a PITA.
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Old November 3, 2005, 06:01 PM   #14
Gewehr98
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Hey, I *like* the Remington 700 rifle family.

Heck, I own two of 'em, for chrissakes.

But I have seen a poor schmuck sit there and stare at his Remington 700 on the bench while holding that bolt handle by itself in his grubby little mitts. Anecdotal? Probably, but I doubt the difference was wasted on him and his predicament. Luckily for him, it was a fired round in the chamber, held in place by that bolt, sans handle, so it could be shipped back to Remington in a safe condition.

I've competed at long range rifle matches where the other guys actually have spare bolts headspaced for their 700's, just in case. Paranoia?

My Remington 700 rifles haven't broken an extractor, nor have they fired by using the safety as the trigger, or even broken a bolt handle. Doesn't mean these guys' services aren't needed, though:

http://www.hdrifles.net/Rem700BoltMod.html
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Old November 3, 2005, 06:20 PM   #15
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I don't call you a parrot, Gewehr98, or anything else. That is the kind of post for which I was asking...eyewitness accounts, that can be considered reliable....rather than heresay. Thank you sir, for sticking to the facts. I certainly believe your account, for what it's worth. I'm sure that these problems do occur, though probably only in a small percentage of the 700's in existence. Nevertheless, this speaks to the idea that Remington should make real changes to address these issues, where needed. No argument here.
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Old November 3, 2005, 06:50 PM   #16
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I own a 700 ADL Synthetic 308 and it has been fine, but I respect the opinions of many people on this forum and I think threads like this one should give one pause as to whether or not they should buy a Remington.
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Old November 3, 2005, 07:04 PM   #17
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The only reason for the rifle firing when the safety is put on/off is having the travel adjustment set too fine. People do this in the pursuit of " breaking glass " trigger pull. the right way is to stone and polish the faces , not just turn the screw. In other words a proper gunsmithing job is required to get the best out of the trigger. Bolt handles coming off must be down to poor quality control at Remington, because that design has been going for tens of years with no problem at all. It is sad if that is the case because Remington rifles have always had a reputation for reliability and being "Accurate right out of the box" all of mine have been just that and I have three right now which fully qualify for that description. two are nearly 9 yrs old and the .17 is a month old , so I will watch that one closely. I have had one extractor spring go, on a 308 which I dont have now, but it took no time to replace and it came free even after 2 yrs of shooting, in fact Remington have been very good in regard to information and service for me.
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Old November 3, 2005, 08:00 PM   #18
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Didnt the US Army and Marine Corps conduct studies and found that the M700 Extractor was good enough for use and that a Sako type extractor wasnt needed ??
That is a good question...I kind of doubt that the Army and Marines are using stock 700 rifles...I'd be willing to bet that the extractor was replaced if there was any concern.
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Old November 4, 2005, 11:49 AM   #19
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I have a qoute here from the man that helped the US Millitary with there M24/M40 sniper systems Gale Mcmillian that he posted on TFL a long time ago about this same topic.

Quote:
Posted: 12-01-1999 09:55 PM
The benefit of controlled feed is greatly exaggerated. Look at it this way the US military hunt the most dangerous game on earth with Rem. Rifles . When I designed the Marine M40A1 we considered replacing the extractor but when we researched extractor failure we found it so incidental it wasn't worth considering . The problem with installing the a M16 or Sako extractor is when you blow a primmer it turns to shrapnel
So I donno I think its one bad apple or 2 of thousands that have the problem mainly in Rem Ultra Mag's and Short Mag's.

So I donno does this really worry me ?? Not one bit. My extractor "could" break but hey I rather have a broken extractor then shrapnel

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Old November 4, 2005, 01:33 PM   #20
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I tend to agree with you DimitriS...I am probably a little concerned, but not too much. I wouldn't use a 700 or 700P in a situation where I thought that my life is at stake...I would probably use something more like my SOCOM 16 or 870...

Interesting to see that quote though...thanks for following up.
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Old November 4, 2005, 03:55 PM   #21
DimitriS
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Math,

I understand your consern but I am not worried at all I am gonna stick to non-magnum calibers and all so the extractor failing is small.

Even if my life was in danger I rather half a Remmie M700 then most other actions they are good for what they were designed to do and thats good enough for me

I honestly dont know these problems with Remmies I know they exist but all rifles half problems some more then others.

Extractor = Not a problem unless your using Mag's it seems.
Bolt Handle = I honestly dont know how a brazed bolt handle will break but if it did I know how to use a Oxy-welder.
Trigger = Never gonna adjust so isnt a problem.

So tell me should I get a Nonrico M-14 Clone or a M700 ??
Both are guns I always wanted and I finial am able to buy a gun so what do you think ??. I am leaning on the Remmie for a all around gun in 30-06 right now. Math what do you think ??

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Old November 4, 2005, 04:10 PM   #22
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We have a long time gunsmith in our family named Olson. I took a brand new Remington Model 700 BDL in 7mm Rem Mag to him to have him give it a trigger job and got talking about extractors. He was replacing the stock extractor on another M700 with a Sako. When I asked him when he simply smirked "Why, to replace the Mickey Mouse unit Remington put on there, that's why." So I had him do it to mine as well.

That being said my family has been a long time supporter of Remington rifles. Just about everyone in our family uses a Remington M700 to hunt with and of the two that don't, one is a customized 1903 Springfield and the other is a Remington M7600 pump. They have no complaints with them. My dad's and his brother's ADLs were bought in the 70s and have had nothing more than trigger jobs done to them. They still shoot sub-MOA. So I when I looked at buying a new hunting rifle, I naturally turned to Remington and ended up purchasing the afermentioned 7 Mag. It is a beautiful rifle, and accurate, but I have noticed a trend. In the last 3 rifles our family has bought from Remington--two ADLs in .270 and .300 Win and my BDL in 7mm Rem Mag--all have had ridiculously heavy trigger pulls. In addition Remington has added that J-lock "feature" that seems more annoying than useful to me. In fact, I unlock mine and basically forget where I place the keys. I don't know if I could lock mine if I had to right now. My brother's .300 and my 7mm Rem both had problems with the stock causing the bolt release stick when we first got them. That means that after depressing the button it sticks up and makes it impossible to lock the bolt back in the rifle until you mess with it for long enough to get the button unstuck. And finally, I noticed when running some timed offhand two shot drills that my rifle has a tendency to double feed when the bolt is worked quickly. This isn't short stroking cause I can feel the lugs hit the back of the receiver. This knocks the top round loose in the magazine and then when the bolt is thrust forward it picks up the next round and tries to feed them both. It doesn't work and my two shot drill became a one-shot-and-*** drill. For all of these reasons my once avid support for Remington has dwindled and now I am on the verge of trying to trade my Remington for a Win M70 in .300 Win. Your results may vary.
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Old November 4, 2005, 05:34 PM   #23
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DimitriS,

I have a Remington M700 in 308 and really like it...no problems and it is more accurate than I am.
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Old November 4, 2005, 05:52 PM   #24
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You know the M700 is one of the most bought rifles at some of the hunting/gun shops I go to. Yes there are problems but they make so many of them I bet if you did a study based on lets say 1000 guns the M700 will do pretty good compared to other rifles that have less in numbers out there.

I bet the person that first had the idea to replace the Remmie Extractor with the Sako type was someone from Sako that got upset that the M700 got the Millitary contract and the Sako TRG didnt (I know this probrobly isnt true but its still funny )

Hummm its a close call thinking about the M700 in 30-06 myself right now thanks Math!

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Old November 4, 2005, 05:53 PM   #25
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+1 on mathman's comment -- I also have a new Remington .308, and it is a great rifle; very accurate and reliable.
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