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Old October 31, 2005, 04:26 PM   #1
porkskin
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"fit" for combat

just curious what your thoughts were on exactly what one's base level of physical conditioning should be. a guy we work with here who served in prison claims being able to run a mile and bench press your body weight would get you out of most jams. i figured he'd seen more jams than i. but what are you guys thoughts? i was thinking 3 pull ups, 30 straight push ups, and a mile run (not jog) should be baseline. comments?
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Old October 31, 2005, 04:40 PM   #2
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what kind of combat? like shipped off to the sandbox combat? or fight off the hordes of crackheads and homeless and violent criminals that await you around every corner combat?

in any case, i simply dryfire for my physical fitness. i do it until i reach muscle exhaustion.
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Old October 31, 2005, 04:44 PM   #3
Glenn E. Meyer
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Is it what your body should be? Or what your body weight is?

I can easily bench and pull up what is should be! What is actually is - well, then I would be really strong.
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Old October 31, 2005, 04:58 PM   #4
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before i joined the army, i made sure i could do the minimun PT requirements. i think it was 40 sit-ups, 40 push-ups, and run the mile in less than eighteen mimutes. i weighed about 205 at 5'9". even got my long hair cut off before i joined. doing the minimum once a day seemed easy. once i got into basic, after about 2 weeks of double timing and "drop and give me fifty" all day everyday, i was reduced to not even being able to the minimum due to arms, legs and every other muscle being turned to rubber. after about about 5 or 6 weeks of this, i had went from 205 lbs to 165 lbs of lean mean fighting machine. at this point we litteraly did hundreds of push-ups and sit-ups no problem everyday. running a mile in less than 12 minutes. 3 pull-ups? try 25 for a minimun. climbing up 25 or 30 feet of rope using your legs is rough, let alone straight up without your legs. main thing i think we were being taught was agility and stamina. mostley stamina.
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Old October 31, 2005, 05:45 PM   #5
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What will get you out of most jams is the ability to see it coming before it gets to you, therefore, eat a lot of carrots! Situational awareness is everything.
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Old October 31, 2005, 06:02 PM   #6
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Having the ability to carry your as* out of a hot firefight and E&E would be a more than welcome strong point. It is better to have that ability and not need it than need it and not have it. 3 miles under 30 minutes in basic combat gear. By basic i mean weapon, ammo,com gear.,water.Adernaline comes in handy at that point. Fear is one of the greatest motivators that you can get
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Old October 31, 2005, 06:05 PM   #7
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Run a mile in 18 minutes? Good grief! You should be able to make that time at an easy stroll. Even a 12 minute mile is nothing to write home about. That can be done at a very fast paced walk. You're probably thinking 1.5 miles. That would put a 8 minute mile for 12 minutes. 18 minutes could almost walk 1.5 mile.
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Old October 31, 2005, 06:08 PM   #8
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I thought it was a little slow myself but it made feel good about my 10 minute mile.LOL
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Old October 31, 2005, 06:19 PM   #9
Dragun
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yea, now that i think of it, average walk is 3 miles per hour so that is 1 mile every 20 minutes. i'm pretty sure it was 2 miles in eighteen minutes but we were doing it in 12 or less (in other words the slowest guy was 2 miles in 12 minutes). if a guy/guys fell out, others would have to carry him over the line because we left and arrived as a company.

hey, it was a long time ago and i forgot my discaliamer: memory not as good as it once was.
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Old October 31, 2005, 06:26 PM   #10
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Yeah, he's probably thinking 1.5 or 2 miles.

I would like to think that i'm fit, I can bech press more than I weigh (of course....i'm only 150 lbs.) and can do 15 pullups, but I never do sit-ups, I don't see the point really.

6.5-7 min. mile.

I think that's sufficient for the everyday horde of crackheads.

However, when I enlist in the Marine Corps, I have a feeling that I won't feel quite so fit anymore.
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Old October 31, 2005, 06:33 PM   #11
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dragun, you sure you didn't mean eight and not eighteen? that's a heckuva long time!
i'm looking into marine officer programs after grad school and i'm planning on doing my 3-miler in under 18 minutes, something i had no problem doing back in high school but think i'd struggle with today. i can still run forever but i've slowed a bit without those speed workouts.

i think "fit for combat" depends on where you're at. most medium frame guys, fatties or crackheads i wouldn't worry too much about holding my own, but the ripped guys could probably chuck me around. so i'd say i'm "fit" for where i'm at now... if i was in prison (not that i ever intend to end up there) i'd have to say my definition of where i want my strengths to be would change.
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Old October 31, 2005, 06:59 PM   #12
losangeles
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Quote:
i was thinking 3 pull ups, 30 straight push ups, and a mile run (not jog) should be baseline. comments?
Hey, those are pretty pathetic. A third grader girl can do that.

Richard Marcinko was saying his Seal team could average 500 lbs bench press. Being a powerlifter myself, I think he's exagerrating. I'd believe if he says average about 400.

OK, I'll play. If you don't want to be out-physicalled by 95% of opponents, try these numbers:

400 lbs bench press (doesn't matter your body weight; too bad if you're small)
600 lbs squat
135 lbs strict curl
shot put 16 lbs - over 40 feet
4.6 in the 40 yard dash (4.5 or lower is better)
5:30 in the mile (don't need competitive times)
marathon - just finish under 5 hours (don't need competitive times)
25 pull-ups
60 push-ups --- in 60 seconds
60 situps --- in 60 seconds

I pulled those push-ups/situps numbers from back when I was competing in Marines physical fitness competitions back in high school. The athletic stuff -- just from athletics -- if you're gonna out-physical 95% of opponents, you need high performance numbers.

The better Seal team guys should be able to do the above. If you can pull those numbers, you've got potential to outman a vast majority of people.
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Old October 31, 2005, 07:24 PM   #13
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Porkskin, strength and endurance are the two keys you're looking for. Powerlifting is great for quick, short bursts. Running/swimming and performing grinders are the best way to go. Most of the selection/schools, etc I've been to, the guys who can have the strength to perform excercises after running and doing calisthenics for an hour are the guys in better shape.
Combine running with push-ups, squat-bends, abs, sprints/stairs, pull-ups, dips. You can find these circuit areas in most parks with running trails. There is 500# bench press shape, and there is 100 push-up and run for another hour shape. Combat stresses are an accumliation, which means long periods of time. Stress burns out power quickly. Strength/Endurance training gets you through.
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Old October 31, 2005, 09:20 PM   #14
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Iv'e read marcinkos books and i thought he said they was benching 400lbs for 50 reps.Thats still alot to do straight. if you seen some of his videos of red cell the one on the plane in the door way had some arms on him
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Old October 31, 2005, 09:33 PM   #15
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400lbs for 50 reps...no way..that is total crap...
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Old October 31, 2005, 09:35 PM   #16
rapier144
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could be but i think thats whats in his book
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Old October 31, 2005, 09:41 PM   #17
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I just looked in Red Cell, when he gets "recalled" by the Navy, he had been pressing 350 pounds for 30 minutes, and he did 20 reps while talking to the Navy guys that came to pick him up. Of course, it is a fiction book...
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Old October 31, 2005, 09:46 PM   #18
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I'm not sure if you can set a real line as to whether or not you are fit "enough" to make it out in one piece. For example, I am 5'7" and 140 lb. Not very impressive. But I can easily pass the 3/30/1 mile standard. Maybe double it, certainly triple at least with the pullups. I can bench-press my body weight. Am I fit enough? Maybe. On the other hand, I know a guy who almost certainly couldn't pass. He's even overweight. But at 6'5+" and at least 250 lb, is he better off than me in a fight? Probably.


Quote:
Hey, those are pretty pathetic. A third grader girl can do that.
In today's society, I seriously doubt that. :barf:
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Old October 31, 2005, 09:53 PM   #19
threefivesevenmag
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Not how much you bench.

I think it is important to have cardio stamina, not just brute strength when it comes to physical conditioning.

I believe if one can last three intense boxing rounds that last three minutes each without much fatigue, then they are above the curb in most areas.

Physical conditioning should be a priority when it comes to fleeing a fight or just being in hand-to-hand combat. At my gym, it is funny to see the guys who only come in...don't stretch...and then power lift everything with bad form. They might be "big" but they don't ever do cardio and someone of slightly equal size, with a good understanding of fighting could easily drop them.

That being said. I'd say having a routine would be good.

*10 minutes of warm up cardio/stretching.

*Weight lifting concentrating on certain muscle groups on certain days. No over kill needed if you don't want to. Lift what is healthy and comfortable for you.

*30 minutes of cardio (running, walking brisk, eliptical machines, rowing, any physical activity.)

*Abdominal Exercises for your core.

*10 minutes of cool down/stretching.

*Mix in a decent diet and a good amount of sleep.

If one kept this up 4-6 times a week for 3 months they'd see some great results. It's hard though, with family, work, friends, and just relaxing time. If I could only do one bit of physical exercise I'd just do cardio.

Oh well, this is what I do and try to do. It really has worked. I'm 6'1 and 235lbs. Not a "pro" at anything, but I enjoy working out and getting my energy focused. Now if I could only balance it out better during snow in days and holidays.

PS: Twycross, being fit and small doesn't mean a bigger guy has an advantage over you in a fight. Honestly, smaller guys have less to lose and usually fight harder as they are not trying to impress anyone...but trying to make it out alive. Fighting is a reflex kind of thing, much like trigger control. If you practice enough, in a physical confrontation, the reflexive odds are with you, even if you are down because of the reaction curve. It's why we stay alert! So don't doubt yourself man, size can help...but it's not even half the equation. Now numbers...that can be a problem.
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Old October 31, 2005, 10:11 PM   #20
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Out of Shape

I'm so out of shape that when I die, I'm going to donate my body to science fiction!
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Old October 31, 2005, 10:15 PM   #21
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I would'nt worry so much about numbers in and of themselves. I would strive for balance. When I was younger I worried about the 350 lb. bench. Other than bragging rights it really did'nt mean much. Obviosly stronger is better but don't give up your aerobic ability for the strength. If you make a point to do some form of aerobic activity 2-3 times a week and a reasonable program of resistance training 2-3 times a week you'll be more fit than 95% of the population. Being fit is really not a piece of the survival puzzle, it's a prerequisite. It enables you to do everything else to a higher degree. I follow the above mentioned program and at 41 I'm always in the top 3 for PT scores in my military reserve unit of about 75, regardless of age. From the military standpoint my goals are for a 10 minute 1.5 mile run and 100 push ups and sit ups in 2 minutes each. For my personal goals I am satisfied with a 24 minute 5K run and a 300 lb. bench. FWIW I'm not a big guy at 5-9 180. Good luck and remember the real key is just to do something.
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Old October 31, 2005, 11:07 PM   #22
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Its all about supporting your body weight and how well you can mange. Do stress reps, they work best imo.

Max pushups in 1 minute(Marine pushups for strengthing wrist also)
Max situps in 1 minute
Max pullups in 30 seconds(Drop all the way down and up again)
Jog in place for 2 minute(Lift your knee as high as you can)
Max flutter kicks in 1 minute(Keep your toes pointed straight up and your knees locked)
Shark swim for 1 minute(Think superman stretch, cept you raise your arm and leg alternatvly. Ie, left arm/right leg and right arm/left leg)

Do all that continusly(sp) without stopping for half hour and you got a pretty decent workout. Granted you actually have to want to do it inorder to get any benefit, else your just wasting your time.
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Old October 31, 2005, 11:30 PM   #23
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Hey porskin a good base for upper-body pushing strength is always at least being able to bench your body weight. The real question is....what do you do from there. It sounds like you are just looking for a OK level to "sustain" and not worry about improving. The thread title says combat, but I dont think you are really talking about combat. It sounds like you just want to feel comfortable in your ability to handle yourself in a street fight. If that is the case, then benching will not do t he job for you. Flutterkicks will not do the job for your. Pick a fighting technique.....any fighting technique, and do whatever exercises that are encompassed in that technique.

Even in the Military, the physical fitness test doesn't really say much. It may be a good indication in your ability to carry out your combat mission, but in the end, if you can't move with/operate the equipment that you are given, you are combat ineffective. No matter how many push-ups, pull-ups, 1.5 / 2 / 3-mile run, dead hangs you can do. None of these tests are designed to test your heart/will....that which makes you do what is needed in the face of danger.

I also think that people use the word "combat" toooooo loosely. Combat means killing someone for an objective. Fighting in the streets and operating in combat are two very very different things. Maybe if more people actually knew what combat involved, they would be less apt to plunge into a war.

(ohdeargawd...you guyz made me start preaching!!)
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Old October 31, 2005, 11:57 PM   #24
model 25
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I am 55 now and have worked in enviroments that have been real hard. I am no warrior as far as training but have kept myself fit and challenge myself to test my abilities. I am nobody special and I am just like any one of you.

I have been tested under fire but none of my strength or agility was needed like you see in the movies. You get shot at by gun or by bomb and you just make what decisions that are available. You will do what you have trained yourself to do if your courage doesn't fail you under fire.

Train hard but don't hurt yourself doing it. Injuries last forever. My 2cents
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Old November 1, 2005, 12:30 AM   #25
model 25
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One more thing I ought to add, Your size and strength are not always what is going to keep you alive. I have seen women 5foot 8 120 pounds win fights against attackers with AK 47s and RPGs. She was in a guntruck with the convoy and when she cut loose with the 50 cal it made us all happy. None of the men she killed even knew who did it.

Then we went out with a different group and one of the guys on the gun truck was so scared he never fired a shot. Hell everyone was scared and with good reason. Some of the guys come into unloading and they had unexploded RPGs stuck in their trucks.

If your gonna fight then you better be willing. There are alot of good men over there, much better than I am and I hope you you all realize what they are doing for you whether you agree with the war or not.

I am not special and deserve no allocades so please just take this for information and move on. (edited to say) I just worked over there to help in the fight, I am no hero. It's the military that deserves the real thanks, God knows they kept this old man alive.

25

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