The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Tactics and Training

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old October 28, 2005, 09:15 AM   #1
zeisloft
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 7, 2005
Location: Amarillo TX
Posts: 419
Black Tallons

Tell me about the tallons, why they stopped production etc. I still have about 100 or so in .45 and another 75ish in .44. I loved them for hunting ammo and recieved several boxes for free from Winchester when they first came out about 15yrs ago. Wish I could get more. I have heard several reasons why they were pulled but many seemed sespect. Any input?
__________________
A scalpel can be just as effective as a broadsword

Obviously, Occam was not a reloader
zeisloft is offline  
Old October 28, 2005, 10:22 AM   #2
threefivesevenmag
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 8, 2005
Posts: 406
They still make them. They are now dubbed "Winchester SXT." It's the same type of platform without the black coating on the bullet. I have read that they actually perform much better than black talons. Bullet technology is always changing and they just upgraded to the SXT and got rid of the media slayed talons.
threefivesevenmag is offline  
Old October 28, 2005, 10:23 AM   #3
stratus
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 5, 2005
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 882
http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs2.htm

Scroll down a bit on that page and there's a section explaining the ballistics of the black talon. Following that, there's a bit of info on why they were denounced by the media, etc.
stratus is offline  
Old October 28, 2005, 01:48 PM   #4
Rimrod
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 19, 2005
Location: Behind enemy lines
Posts: 1,309
Actually they are not the same, although very close. When the SXT expands they do not have the Talons. They are rounded off and look more like a flower petal if they expand properly. Black Talons are now a LE only product under a different name although I have seen them on a local dealers shelf. The group responsible for their being pulled from the market was the American Medical Association, doctors complained of too many serious puncture wounds in their fingers while doing a finger probe looking for the bullet in shooting victims.
Rimrod is offline  
Old October 28, 2005, 02:22 PM   #5
Avizpls
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 9, 2004
Posts: 774
winchester RANGER SXT are the talon type arent they? The box is marked LEO, but they arent illegal for you and I. I have a LEO marked box of .40's that SUCK! I'll take Gold dots over them any day.
Avizpls is offline  
Old October 28, 2005, 02:36 PM   #6
JR47
Junior member
 
Join Date: August 9, 2005
Location: North Georgia
Posts: 2,228
The American Medical Association stated that doctors were worried about the "possibility" of punctured gloves. No examples were reported.

Usual liberal BS. The Black Talon wasn't a particularly effective round. The cutting phenomena was never proven to enhance it's efficiency. Ongoing research on bullet design rapidly overshadowed the cutting aspects. The Ranger SXT LEO round currently uses enhanced Black Talon technology.

Funny thing, though. The Starfire Hollowpoint was first shown in Peterson's Handguns as a full page picture. It showed the bullet as it penetrated ballistic gelatin, sending strands of cut gelatin out of the entrance! I guess that PMC, because they didn't advertise the "buzz saw" effect, escaped public scrutiny by the various "experts" that the simpleton anti-gun groups trotted out?

If you think that the Black Talon affair was funny, then check out the hilarious shenanigans from the politically-infected groups over the fabled "Rhino Ammo".
JR47 is offline  
Old October 28, 2005, 03:15 PM   #7
rapier144
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 2, 2005
Location: tennessee
Posts: 686
In the oct 2005 issue of GUNS and WEAPONS for law enforcement they have a article on the ranger SXT it looks from the picture to be the same as the black talons they seem to have the same sharp points as the black talons. A friend and i shot black talons into 1 gal water bags stacked end to end to see how far they would penetrate and what they looked like expanded they looked awesome but didnt travel as far as the hornaday +p did though
__________________
Scan and Breathe Scan and Breathe
Stupidity should hurt
rapier144 is offline  
Old October 28, 2005, 03:21 PM   #8
TheeBadOne
Junior member
 
Join Date: January 12, 2002
Location: USA
Posts: 1,191
iirc Black Talon performance varied greatly between calibers. I think it may have been the 9mm load that didn't expand well (much).

TBO
TheeBadOne is offline  
Old October 28, 2005, 03:24 PM   #9
rapier144
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 2, 2005
Location: tennessee
Posts: 686
I didnt mention we was using a usp 45
__________________
Scan and Breathe Scan and Breathe
Stupidity should hurt
rapier144 is offline  
Old October 28, 2005, 03:29 PM   #10
Bender711
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 20, 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 340
they were banned because they had a cool name tha sounded "evil" so the liberals hated them, even though they didnt wok much better than any other HP.
__________________
From a Mod
"Seeing as how "butt Smurf" is not profanity in the usual sense and humorously creative, I'll leave this up for now"
Bender711 is offline  
Old October 28, 2005, 03:39 PM   #11
rapier144
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 2, 2005
Location: tennessee
Posts: 686
That sounds about right bender don't want to scare anyone
__________________
Scan and Breathe Scan and Breathe
Stupidity should hurt
rapier144 is offline  
Old November 1, 2005, 07:21 PM   #12
jaymag
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 4, 2005
Location: springfield,MA
Posts: 239
Ranger talon

Ranger talons sxt are the same as a black talon.Different name,but in fact a better round.They do not suck! avizpls don't know what he's talking about.They are used by many law agencies and you like them for hunting.
jaymag is offline  
Old November 5, 2005, 04:10 AM   #13
SJRTX
Junior Member
 
Join Date: October 7, 2005
Location: NW Houston
Posts: 11
Ranger SXT (not the same as regular SXT) are the only ones with the "Talons", and they say "Law Enforcement Ammunition" on the box. Ive got some sitting right here. They are NOT the same as Black Talon, they are much better. BT's did not expand very well through heavy clothing and denim, while these do. Same basic concept, they just perform better. Honestly, If I were LE, I would use a bonded bullet instead (Ranger SXT is not bonded), because of the increased potential for shooting through barriers like glass. The Rangers tend to have core/jacket separations through glass.
Winchester sells a Ranger Bonded bullet now, that basically has 6 petals like a Gold Dot once expanded. Because of the way the Ranger SXT Talon is designed, they cant be bonded. Otherwise, the "Talons" wouldnt separate from the lead and curve outward. If you can find some at a gun show or online at a good price, go for it. But Gold Dot is more available, performs about the same in gel, and works better through barriers.
SJRTX is offline  
Old November 5, 2005, 12:12 PM   #14
DonR101395
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 30, 2005
Location: NWFL
Posts: 3,029
Try ammolab.com if you want some good info on ammo performance.
DonR101395 is offline  
Old November 5, 2005, 06:20 PM   #15
SJRTX
Junior Member
 
Join Date: October 7, 2005
Location: NW Houston
Posts: 11
I think ammolab.com is down. Not sure for how long, but its already been down for a little while.
SJRTX is offline  
Old November 8, 2005, 03:28 PM   #16
Tripplethreat
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 20, 2004
Posts: 124
Uhh,never mind.Sorry 'bout that.
__________________
To be born free is an accident.To live free is a priviledge.To die free is a responsibility.-an anonymous POW at the Hanoi Hilton.

Last edited by Tripplethreat; November 8, 2005 at 04:23 PM.
Tripplethreat is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:03 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.09205 seconds with 7 queries