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Old January 16, 1999, 10:25 PM   #1
Mike Baugh
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Does anybody have any experience with any of the "Drop in Match Barrels" for 1911's ? I have a hand fit match bushing on my stock barrel and did not know if I would notice a big difference in replacing the barrel . Thanks , Mike...
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Old January 17, 1999, 12:59 AM   #2
Art Eatman
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I won't be offended if anyone contradicts me, but I'm dubious about "drop in" unless it's maybe from a topline custom guy. Does it have a fitted bushing included? Already "perfect" as to throat and polish? A lot of the other stuff mentioned in Halleck, like the slight "breaking" of the edges of the lugs, or links of various center-to-center options?

Seems to me some guys advertise "Match" like others advertise "Tactical"...

Regards, Art
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Old January 17, 1999, 02:23 AM   #3
Grayfox
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IMHO barrel to bushing fit is the key to 1911 accuracy. Replacing the barrel without replacing the bushing would be a mistake. It could go either way depending on how well the new barrel mates with the bushing. Best to buy a barrel that comes with its own bushing. Why are you replacing the barrel? Is there a problem with it? Poor accuracy? Or are you just trying to make the gun shoot better? BTW- What make of gun is it?
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Old January 17, 1999, 09:53 AM   #4
Mike Baugh
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Grayfox , the gun is a new Springfield . I have customized several Government models over the past few years and this is just this winters project . I usually have the guns hardchromed and so I replace all the parts except the frame , slide and mainspring housing with Brown or Wilson Bullet Proof , install Heinie or Novak sights and then bevel all sharp edges and take out tool marks before plating . I have never used an aftermarket barrel before and since I blend the slide to match the frame in back if I am going to try a different barrel now is the time so I do not have to strip hardchrome/recontour/rechrome the slide and frame later . I have a Trophy Match that came from the factory with a Stainless "Match Barrel" and it seems to have a slightly tighter fit in the frame of the new gun . I placed this barrel in the new gun and the slide overhang in the rear would have to be shortened about .030 to give a smooth transition . I tried some barrels from my other guns and all seemed to give different amounts of under/overhang so I figured the chances of finding a barrel down the road that lined the slide/frame up perfectly would be nill .I do not want to get into a timing/lockup issue by changing barrel links to try to make it line up . I installed a Wilson Match bushing on the stock barrel with a snug bushing to frame tightness and .002 barrel to bushing tightness and it shoots well but if I thought a new drop in "Match Barrel" would give a considerable advantage in accuracy/service life I would try one . I have never fit an oversize barrel that is why I am looking at the "Drop In" . Thanks , Mike...
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Old January 17, 1999, 10:59 AM   #5
George Stringer
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Mike, the only way you will see a difference in accuracy is in a machine rest. The circle is what is important; slide to barrel, barrel to bushing, bushing to slide. .002" is the correct bushing clearance for the barrel and the bushing should fit snugly enough to require a umph to turn it. George
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Old January 17, 1999, 01:11 PM   #6
Mike Baugh
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George , I kind of thought the stock barrel would hold its own with a proper bushing fit . I have always been amazed at the poor barrel to bushing to slide fit on factory guns . With the new bushing I took out a total of .010 free play . The match barrel that is in my Trophy Match is only .003 wider on the bottom lug foot width , but I did not know if this combined with a possibly tighter chamber and better bore profile would add up to an "Amazing" difference , and I would have no control over the above items on a 'Drop In Barrel" . The gun is going to be a carry piece so I think it will be OK . Thanks for your time , Mike...
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Old February 2, 2005, 11:39 AM   #7
Harry Bonar
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re-drop ins

Dear Sir;
There is no such animule as a "drop in" part.
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Old February 2, 2005, 11:48 AM   #8
Dave Sample
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Amen, Harry. Very few people I know can shoot that good. Caspian Arms has a nice new "Drop In Barrel" that really does work.......................in their slides. I would not know if they work in metric 1911's but I have thrown away many SA barrels. They used to be two piece junk. We use Kart EZ Fit in our Online 1911 Class. Takes about 10 hours each , average fitting time, but the results are very good.
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Old February 4, 2005, 08:09 PM   #9
TBT
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Harry ... is that your real name?
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Old February 10, 2005, 12:07 PM   #10
Harry Bonar
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re-real name

Dear Sir:
Yes; Harry Bonar is really Harry Bonar (I went to Bob Evans with the wife and the "seater" said, "Name please." I said Harry Bonar. She thought I said HarryBoner and laughed; made her day --mine too!
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Old February 10, 2005, 01:45 PM   #11
Dave Sample
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You gotta love him. I am jealous , Harry! That is the greatest name here!
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Old February 10, 2005, 02:33 PM   #12
Bill Z
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You get more accuracy out of a properly fitted bushing than a 'drop-in' barrel. Unless there is something with the lock-up, timing, or something badl;y wrong with the crown of your current barrel, save for some horrible defect somewhere else, a 'drop-in' barrel wouldn't do anything but make practice ammo funds disappear.
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Old February 12, 2005, 10:12 PM   #13
Dave Sample
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I have found through the years that most 1911 have pretty good barrels and that they can be inproved by re-linking and fitting a NM Bushing. A repeatable, tight, lock up is what makes them accurate and many times a new barrel is not the answer. I always advise trying to make the existing barrel do better work first.
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Old February 13, 2005, 12:21 AM   #14
Tim R
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Hey Bill, Nice page! Someday!
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Old February 26, 2005, 10:27 AM   #15
Harry Bonar
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re-BILL Z

Dear Bill:
Just looked at your site - some pretty nice looking 1911s' there!
I don't think there is anything more enjoyable that doing 1911s"!
Every - time one comes in you learn something about them, trigger, extractor, barrel fit from the factory, and of course the old ones that don't have all the nicities we add to already good pistols.
I've been impressed with the Charles Dailey and Rock Island Armory 1911s'. Also, even the Ballesters aren't past redemption! However the Llamas I don't have much to do with; "trade it fellow."
And, then, as J.B. Books said - you'll find one that some "ham handed" guy brings in that has NO quality at all and it'll outshoot everything! Ha!
I've learned to look out for the purchaer and if he has junk I'LL TELL HIM IN A GENTLE WAY TO, "TRADE THAT SUCKER OFF."
I WORKED ON A FRAME (WON'T SPECIFY WHICH ONE) one day for four hours and finally told the guy, "no charge, do not let anybody assemble this for you, and get a bettrer frame!" Don't know what he did?
Harry B.
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Old March 12, 2005, 07:48 AM   #16
WESHOOT2
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under the impression

I thought the correct clearance for barrel-to-bushing was .001", and the correct clearance for slide-to-bushing was .001", too.


Is the EGW angle-bore bushing the answer?
Do Briley sphericals run reliably when (very) dirty?
Am I insane?

Please, professional help here...........gotta new Caspian slide coming, but my (current) SA project already has a hard-fit Kart tuber in it.
What should I do?
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Old March 26, 2005, 07:48 PM   #17
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[img]
http://www.huntercustoms.com/images/target82303red.jpg [/img]

I feel I'm very fortunate that the mentor I had in 1969 was very knowledgeable about 1911 guns. He taught me that 80% of the mechanical accuracy in a 1911 pistol is the barrel and the way it's fit. It was the first time I heard the term hard fit when talking about barrel fitting. If you want the kind of accuracy like the target above shows you will need a hard fit barrel and you can't achieve this with a drop in barrel or just by linking a barrel up with a longer link. At one time we did use Colt barrels welded up and fit them hard fit which is the same thing one would do today by hard fitting a gunsmith fit barrel.
Regards
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Last edited by Hunter Customs; March 28, 2005 at 09:36 PM.
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Old March 26, 2005, 08:25 PM   #18
WESHOOT2
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Mr. Cogan

Bob hardfit the Nowlin barrel (9x19) in oneamy EAA Witnesses; ha! Accurate gun.
Real accurate.

Gotta drop-in BarSto in oneamy 1911's; came with a fitted bushing.
Accurate gun.
Real accurate.

Gotta EAA factory match barrel (40 S&W) bought used from a friend; kinda fit it in oneamy Witnesses; ha!
Accurate gun.
Real accurate.
Except I tried to take it apart today, broke oneathe (rusted in) grip screws, got the trigger and hammer pins out, now got the whole thing screwewwewewd up I'm gonna need all the King's horses and all the King's men........

....and, apparently, a big wad of fix-me cash.

Sorry for rambling, but I got this big pile of EAA crap on my bench now, and, frankly, no good end in sight. Site. Whatever.

Darn, was gonna IPSC again widdit 'cause it is/was so accurate........
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Old March 26, 2005, 09:29 PM   #19
Hunter Customs
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WESHOOT2,
Do you have any use for a EAA 9x19 barrel with 2 port compensator and guide rod system?
If so I have one that's like new.
Regards
Bob Hunter
www.huntercustoms.com
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Old March 26, 2005, 10:13 PM   #20
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The following rather lengthy article is my account of a similar effort to improve a marginal Springfield MilSpec by replacing the defective factory barrel with their Trophy Match/TRP barrel. Hope it is informative and helpful to your situation.


I picked up a new Mil-Spec in January.

Range conditions were not ideal for the first outing, but I was anxious to shoot. All shooting was done at 25 yards, and the groups were shot while seated on a cold, wet bench and shooting over the range bag. Yee-Haw. I started with Wolf hardball, standing on my hind legs and blasting away at an empty cartridge box on the snowy berm. Point of impact was a little high left, so I switched over to a paper target that someone had shot with a .22 & left hanging on the stand. 5 rounds of Wolf went into 4 inches, about 4” out at 11 o’clock. I noticed I was fighting the creepy trigger, and determined to concentrate on the sights and just press it off.

I switched over to my 200 grain SWC reload, and a fresh target. 5 shots went into 3 1/2 “, with three of them under 2”, and it was grouping closer to the sights:


Next up was Federal 230 HydraShok, which produced a 3”, 5-round group:


Now, you’re not gonna take Camp Perry by storm shooting like this- but I have shot guns that shot worse. By this time there were about 22 rounds of everything left, so I loaded the factory mag with every round different than the one below it, using all loads listed above. Then I turned and hosed the rounds into the berm, as fast as possible. I repeated this three times, and the MilSpec ran like clockwork with the mixed loads.
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Last edited by Sarge; March 26, 2005 at 10:19 PM. Reason: sp
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Old March 26, 2005, 10:16 PM   #21
Sarge
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Chapter II

The “Fly in the Ointment”

Still, this was a nice, tight 1911- and I thought it should have shot a little better. When I got it home I tore it down again, and started looking for anything which might have inhibited accuracy. The first thing I found was a small imperfection in the barrel’s exterior, located right on top about an inch ahead of the front locking lug.


This alone wouldn’t amount to a hill of beans, but after scrubbing the bore I also found a corresponding defect in the barrel’s interior. It appears that whatever force caused the exterior defect, crushed the barrel enough to form a ridge into one land and groove of the rifling.



Folks, this cannot be good for accuracy. I doubt it would ever be a safety issue given the .45 ACP’s low operating pressures- but hey, this was a NEW gun. This should have been caught by Springfield’s QC inspectors.

I notified SFA of the barrel problem on 02/01/05, and shipped it to them on 02/02. I simply asked that they ship me another one-piece stainless barrel, sans the problems, that miked a full 0.580 at the muzzle. Megan Klavon at SFA handled the service matter, and I must say she was a pleasure to work with. When I received the new barrel on 02/16, my first impression was that it was a superb piece of manufacturing. Finish was first-rate and execution was perfect, inside and out. It was also a dead-perfect, drop-in fit; the only thing (aside from the finish) notably different, was that the replacement was a tad longer, and protruded from the bushing slightly. When I asked Megan which model this particular barrel was typically furnished with, her reply was “We use that barrel in our Trophy Matches and TRP’s.”

Nice! But did it shoot?

Yes it did. Even with the 0.005 oversize stock bushing, it was grouping three 230 HydraShoks in an inch and a half. The 200 LSWC load, mentioned above, ran just over two inches for five; not bad for a bulk load put-up in mongrel, range pick-up brass… particularly from a service-grade pistol.

I ran out of Universal Clays, and have been fiddling HS-6 in several calibers, including the .45 ACP. This particular load was 8.1 grains under the Sierra 230 JHC. Range was about 43 yards, rested on the side of a handy tree-



Four of the five are inside 3.5 inches, and the stray was definitely mine. My assessment is that this barrel alone, improved the MilSpec’s mechanical accuracy close to 100%.

This new barrel was really showing promise, so I went ahead and fitted a Maryland Gun Works match bushing per Kuhnhausen's shop manual. I got a chance to bench the gun at 50 yards, and I believe it is going to be a real shooter. The 3-shot cluster is probably what the gun can do; the flyers were the best that I could do, on this particular day. Still, it went under 3.5 inches, which makes me pretty proud of the reload if nothing else. I don't shoot much better than that on my best day, with match ammo and full-blown centerfire target pistols. The load was 8.1 grains of HS-6 under Sierra's excellent 230 grain JHC.

The Navidrex grips aren't bad for "cheapies" either.
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Old March 27, 2005, 07:12 AM   #22
WESHOOT2
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Mr. Hunter

Thanks for the offer, but I already have one in 9x21

Carries fairly well from a Yaqui; sight radius makes my shooting straighter; sixteen hundred with a 115g R-P JHP (vaporizer).
I call it my "Goin' to Chicago" piece.

Except that's the frame I just buggered LOL..........


(Actually, my all-time fav when wearing its 41 AE tube. Boyohboy does THAT thing shoot straight; still gotta respectable stash of Speer's 180g Gold Dot bullets. HS6.)
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Old March 28, 2005, 02:46 PM   #23
Dave Sample
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Who said anything about using longer links? Interesting thread.
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Old March 28, 2005, 04:16 PM   #24
auto45
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Invssgt: Nice informative writeup.

Sounds like you have a decent 50 yarder there with the right loads...with a "drop in" bbl and fitted bushing.

Accuracy wasn't bad with the defective bbl either.

It wouldn't surprise me to see Springfield the number one seller of 1911's in a couple of years.
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Old March 28, 2005, 08:47 PM   #25
Handy
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Dave,
Quote:
I have found through the years that most 1911 have pretty good barrels and that they can be inproved by re-linking and fitting a NM Bushing
Maybe they thought you were. What did you mean by "re-linking"? Fitting a shorter link? Or just one with tighter dimensions through the holes?
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