The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Tactics and Training

View Poll Results: An expert/ instructor is/has:
A military background 15 23.08%
A law enforcement background 14 21.54%
LE AND military 15 23.08%
Certification from someone (nra,school x, etc.) 30 46.15%
Read books/magazines? 4 6.15%
Joined a discussion group 1 1.54%
Owns guns and shoots regularly 21 32.31%
other reason 23 35.38%
Are you an instructor? 11 16.92%
Are you an expert? 10 15.38%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 65. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old October 20, 2005, 11:52 AM   #1
DocFox
Member
 
Join Date: October 8, 2005
Location: Chattanooga,TN
Posts: 92
What is an Expert?

After a discussion with a friend, I got to wondering.... what makes someone an expert? What qualifies someone to instruct? I am curious to see what each of the board members think, and whether you are or consider yourselves as experts or instructors.
DocFox is offline  
Old October 20, 2005, 12:01 PM   #2
Trip20
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 21, 2005
Location: WI
Posts: 2,181
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocFox
What qualifies someone to instruct?
Found here, this is how the NRA qualifies instructors:

To qualify as an NRA instructor, you must:

-Possess and demonstrate a solid background in firearm safety and shooting skills acquired through previous firearm training (such as completion of an NRA Basic Firearm Training Course) and/or previous shooting experience.

-Successfully complete the appropriate NRA instructor examination. Certified—90% or higher. Assistant—85% or higher. Apprentice—85% or higher

-Satisfactorily complete an NRA Instructor Training Course for the area of specialization you wish to teach (e.g., NRA Basic Shotgun Course), and receive the endorsement of the NRA Training Counselor conducting your training.

-Submit your application with appropriate certification fee. Membership in the National Rifle Association is strongly recommended.


This doesn't necessarily mean all NRA instructors are "experts".

"Expert" is going to be a little harder to define. It could be someone who always gets one hole groups? Or someone whos proficient in firearms history, mechanics...etc, etc...?

Sorry I think I posted this before your poll was set up.
Trip20 is offline  
Old October 20, 2005, 01:23 PM   #3
Pointer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 8, 2005
Location: Utah
Posts: 2,559
EXPERT

An EX...is a 'hasbeen'!

A SPURT... is a 'drip' under pressure

Pointer is offline  
Old October 20, 2005, 01:43 PM   #4
woodland
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 26, 2001
Location: western wa.
Posts: 566
I think you would need to define an expert in what? Marksmanship? Combat tacticts? Self defense? Fieldcraft? All of these would require different criteria to be "expert".
__________________
"There is no spoon..."
woodland is offline  
Old October 20, 2005, 03:25 PM   #5
Radiki
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 22, 2005
Posts: 145
An expert in my opinion is someone who has a long background in the subject they are supposed to be an expert in but knows he/she does not know everything and is willing to learn, discuss, debate and explore all possibilities to areas of the subject that he/she is both confident in and those he/she would like to learn more about while possesing a personal drive to better himself and those around on the subject without imposing personal opinions with out clarification.
Radiki is offline  
Old October 20, 2005, 03:31 PM   #6
yorec
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 2, 2000
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 2,324
An expert might have all of those things listed... Or none.
But probably at least one or more.
NONE of the items listed will make someone an expert in firearms in and of themselves, BUT someone with only one of those items might certainly qualify as an expert of sorts...

Clear as mud?
__________________
What part of "... shall not be infringed..." don't you understand?

My site - stop by n see what I'm all about... Yes, there is gun stuff.
yorec is offline  
Old October 20, 2005, 05:52 PM   #7
ISP2605
Junior member
 
Join Date: November 25, 2002
Posts: 954
Other: Because the court and legislature said I was.
ISP2605 is offline  
Old October 20, 2005, 05:59 PM   #8
Tripplethreat
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 20, 2004
Posts: 124
Pointer got it right. And having a Law Enforcement background does not necessarilly make one an expert.
__________________
To be born free is an accident.To live free is a priviledge.To die free is a responsibility.-an anonymous POW at the Hanoi Hilton.
Tripplethreat is offline  
Old October 20, 2005, 07:18 PM   #9
StormTrooper
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 7, 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 110
I'm not really sure. I think it might be somewhat subjective to a few things. I mean, there are specialist who are considered experts in thier fileds. Say a small arms specialist, a highly trained sniper, an automatic weapons specialist. all considered to be experts in thier craft. I think personally an expert should not only have great shooting prowess but also have equal skill in the knowledge of firearms, safety and operation. That to me might be an "expert". Now at the range, I get alot of informal but personal instruction from the range master who is an ex Army Ranger and now teaches courses at the range. At 100yrds he can split a standard size buisiness card in half on edge. The skill has been validated. He also knows alot about firearms, safety and operation. He has helped me in a number of ways including stance/posture, breathing, target acquisition etc. Is he an "expert". To me yes, and obviously he has had well thought professional training with countless hours devoted. That however is my perception of an expert, others may have other views on what expert is.
StormTrooper is offline  
Old October 21, 2005, 12:48 AM   #10
HighValleyRanch
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 15, 2005
Posts: 1,884
They make me shoot in expert class at the bullseye matches so at least the NRA thinks I might be!
At least I have a card that says I am.


But....... that's a long ways from High Master!
__________________
From the sweet grass to the slaughter house; From birth until death; We travel between these two eternities........from 'Broken Trail"
HighValleyRanch is offline  
Old October 21, 2005, 01:25 AM   #11
Blackwater OPS
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 11, 2005
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,153
Quote:
100yrds he can split a standard size buisiness card in half on edge. The skill has been validated
This would be difficult to the point of being beyond skill dependant, even with a top quality rifle. Most rifles I have shot can't shoot .01 MOA.
__________________
"Those who would give up essential Liberty,
to purchase a little temporary Safety,
deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
-Ben Franklin

Spc. Jeremy M. Campbell
Died 9/1/2005
and the best DS ever
MSG Matthew Ritz
Died 11.23.2005
matthewritz.com

For those who have had to fight for it, Life holds a special meaning that the protected will never know.

(\__/)
(='.'=) Someone set us up the bunny!
(")_(")
Blackwater OPS is offline  
Old October 21, 2005, 05:37 AM   #12
Mannlicher
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 8, 2001
Location: North Central Florida
Posts: 2,968
So far as I know, there is no certification for "Gun Expert". There are a lot of guys that have set themselves up as experts, and maybe some are. Frankly, I have my doubts.
Some even advertise their "expertise"on firearms BBS.
__________________
Nemo Me Impune Lacesset

"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so.".........Ronald Reagan
Mannlicher is offline  
Old October 21, 2005, 11:54 AM   #13
smince
Junior member
 
Join Date: October 9, 2004
Location: Northeast Alabama
Posts: 2,580
I don't know anyone who is an "expert".

I know several who are very good, and the uninitiated would think they were "experts".

However, they are still learning (a life-long activity) and consider themselves to be "serious students".

BEWARE of anyone who calls themselves an "expert".
smince is offline  
Old October 21, 2005, 12:18 PM   #14
Capt Charlie
Staff
 
Join Date: March 24, 2005
Location: Steubenville, OH
Posts: 4,304
Someone who knows one hellofa lot more than I do.
__________________
TFL Members are ambassadors to the world for firearm owners. What kind of ambassador does your post make you?

I train in earnest, to do the things that I pray in earnest, I'll never have to do.

--Capt. Charlie
Capt Charlie is offline  
Old October 21, 2005, 12:25 PM   #15
CobrayCommando
Junior member
 
Join Date: November 21, 2004
Posts: 1,631
Even if it shoots .1 MOA or worse, if its a .40-.50 cal the margin of error is still dozens of times the thickness of the card.
CobrayCommando is offline  
Old October 21, 2005, 12:33 PM   #16
swmike
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 25, 2005
Location: Marysville, WA
Posts: 658
Perhaps the only true "Experts" out there are the ones that have had to prove their skills and have survived. Everyone else is just a "Theoretical Expert".

For the purposes of this Poll, in my opinion, an expert is one who has training and experience in the field he is proclaimed to be an expert in. He/she should continually train and practice. An expert "Paper Puncher" may not due well in a tactical situation so more than "bullseye" training is necessary.

Whether Military or LEO is a good question. Both bring different skills to the arena. Different battlefields require different skills.

Something that has always bothered me is the opening question "What makes an Gun Expert". I question the qualifications of many of the "Certified Instructors" I have encountered. Too many are "Legends in their own minds".
I prefer to learn from those that have "Been there and Done that". It was their skill(s) that kept them alive and maybe I can learn enough of them to do the same for me if it ever becomes necessary.

Magazine writers and the like are not the ones I look to.
__________________
My definition of Gun Control--- A steady grip and hitting your target.


"In God we trust, all others are suspects."

"If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying, either I won't need any more, or more won't be of any help".

____________________________________________
swmike is offline  
Old October 21, 2005, 12:37 PM   #17
Capt Charlie
Staff
 
Join Date: March 24, 2005
Location: Steubenville, OH
Posts: 4,304
Quote:
Even if it shoots .1 MOA or worse, if its a .40-.50 cal the margin of error is still dozens of times the thickness of the card.
+1. When I was going to UK, there was a "Daniel Boone" range just south of Lexington. Ranges and trails were set up for ax throwing, knives, and muzzle loader only. One of the stages along the trail was a double bit ax stuck in a tree. Clay pigeons were placed on both sides of the out facing blade. The object was to hit the ax edge and split the bullet, and break both clays. With a .50 cal. maxi ball, it was a whole lot easier than it looked. You only need to shave a tiny bit of bullet to do it, and it was a great way to impress your non-shooting friends!
__________________
TFL Members are ambassadors to the world for firearm owners. What kind of ambassador does your post make you?

I train in earnest, to do the things that I pray in earnest, I'll never have to do.

--Capt. Charlie
Capt Charlie is offline  
Old October 23, 2005, 04:10 PM   #18
JohnKSa
Staff
 
Join Date: February 12, 2001
Location: DFW Area
Posts: 18,142
To be an expert, one should be trained, one must practice and one must have experience in the specific field that the person claims to be an expert. In addition, the person must have distinguished himself from the average member of his field.

You don't HAVE to have formal training but it helps.
You DO have to practice.
You DO have to have experience.
You MUST be GOOD.
__________________
Did you know that there is a TEXAS State Rifle Association?
JohnKSa is offline  
Old October 23, 2005, 04:57 PM   #19
Powderman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 7, 2001
Location: Washington State
Posts: 2,154
I can't really say. I've been called a few titles because of my absolute passion for firearms, ballistics, and all things related to shooting. Some people have even called me an expert; on that I'm not sure. I still have WAY too much to learn.
__________________
Hiding in plain sight...
Powderman is offline  
Old October 23, 2005, 05:53 PM   #20
StormTrooper
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 7, 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 110
"This would be difficult to the point of being beyond skill dependant, even with a top quality rifle. Most rifles I have shot can't shoot .01 MOA."


Well, I know I cant. Thats all that matters to me. But I think he aims for slightly off center. You cant' see that fine an edge dead on at 100trds I dont think. Maybe...
StormTrooper is offline  
Old October 23, 2005, 06:35 PM   #21
mpi
Member
 
Join Date: September 30, 2004
Posts: 49
anyone more than 50 miles away from home.
mpi
mpi is offline  
Old October 23, 2005, 06:45 PM   #22
JohnKSa
Staff
 
Join Date: February 12, 2001
Location: DFW Area
Posts: 18,142
You don't need to to be an expert to cut a card with a bullet--you also don't need to shoot .01moa, and you don't even have to be able to see the card.

I have done this with a pistol at shorter ranges, and the key is to make a visible aiming point on the target backboard that is lined up with the card. It also helps (if you're using a pistol) to orient the card vertically.

You will also have to have a firearm/ammo/sight combo that is capable of shooting all its rounds into holes that touch each other at the range you intend to shoot if you want to make the shot every time.

BTW, I am NRA certified to teach basic safety courses in Home Firearm Safety, Rifle, Pistol, Shotgun, and Personal Protection. I think I can say with some authority that being certified is not necessarily evidence of being an expert. And perhaps some will agree with me now that I have made this revelation!
__________________
Did you know that there is a TEXAS State Rifle Association?
JohnKSa is offline  
Old October 24, 2005, 05:14 AM   #23
clt46910
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 3, 2005
Location: Indiana
Posts: 149
An expert is someone that has much greater skills and knowledge then you do...

As you skills and knowledge increase you will find fewer and fewer experts....
__________________
Chuck in Indiana
clt46910 is offline  
Old October 24, 2005, 01:27 PM   #24
AAshooter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 5, 2001
Posts: 379
Those on the President's 100 are experts. Those that pass the Handgun Combat Master test are experts. There are others that are defined by a variety of capabilities.

However, it is often hard to define what they are experts in.
__________________
Play hard, shoot often, leave well worn guns!
AAshooter is offline  
Old October 24, 2005, 08:31 PM   #25
StormTrooper
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 7, 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 110
well, i was impressed, but i am also just trying to perfect my own abilities right now.
StormTrooper is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:42 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.14319 seconds with 10 queries