LE and self defense off duty

Trapp · October 24, 2005, 08:51 AM

Here's a question that I have no answer to. Being A LEO and having a CWL, when I am not on duty I still follow the rules given for any other CWL holder, right? Keep in mind that I am federal (Coast Guard).

sendec · October 24, 2005, 01:33 PM

Pretty much, unless your agency policy says different. However, I think that there are moral and ethical concerns regarding the protection of others that a civilian may not need to consider. I think we as LEOs may have an implicit duty to respond to situations that put others at risk, though as mentioned this is really a grey area.

tanstaafl4y · October 24, 2005, 04:18 PM

You may want to review you Coast Guard Regulations. As an Army Military Policeman I had ZERO ability to carry a firearm and no law enforecement authority off the base. With that said, I was North Carolina BLET certified, So I was able to get on the rolls as a reserve police officer in a small jurisdiction. All I had to do was watch the drunk tank and answers phones ocassionally. I was more interested in community service rather than carrying tin and cred's.

Something to keep inmind your "Advanced Training" may open you up to greater "civil liability". Also are you a sworn federal agent or just a graduate of Boarding Team Member School.

FWIW, Sworn lawenforcement do not need a CHP/CWL (Whatever) when off-duty. Their police ID is sufficent. You can thank George W. for that one. I think NYC is one of the few places that does not recognize police ID's

Sir William · October 24, 2005, 04:48 PM

The first issue is simple. You have a moral obligation to respond to a cry for help as a citizen. You have NO duty to respond. You may not act as a FLEO. Unless you are on duty and assigned to a post, you are not authorized to act in any LE role. There could be a smokey of the sea issue raised. If you are on land, what authority do you have? None. You are a citizen. I suggest you speak to a superior officer concerning your lack of rights, responsibilities and authority.

Trapp · October 24, 2005, 04:55 PM

I am a Boarding Officer (Step up from BTM).....Legally, I can make arrests (though we Never do, just detain people for the local cops) searches all that good stuff.....As far as status as a Fed....I think it's a grey area. Depending on what I am doing I can act in the capacity of a Border Control agent, I have Customs authority, and our main authority of "enforcing all applicable laws and federal regulations"

As far as off duty I have the FL CWL, so I carry off base.

Trapp · October 24, 2005, 05:02 PM

First, I do have some authority on land (not all land.....)

Second,
Why so condescending? I think this post has gone in the wrong direction of the question I am asking.

Basically, The question is about self defense Not being a cop off duty. Some of the laws for Florida contradict training for my job. I am assuming State laws are Rule 1. I was wanting to know if instincts from training came into play, how accountable I would be.

Sir William · October 25, 2005, 01:05 AM

Not condescending. I didn't read you as a hot dog. I simply suggest that it is a better course of action to have a tete a tete with a superior officer than ask on a open firearms forum. I am no expert on vicarious liability. I would simply imagine that you would be on your own. No governmental immunity, USCG will not support you and you should think citizen when off duty and off post. I mean no disrespect. I was told at FLETC that if I see a murder in a parking lot that it was none of my business unless, it was a federal installation/reservation.

October 24, 2005, 08:51 AM	#1
Trapp Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2004 Location: KTN Posts: 1,221	LE and self defense off duty Here's a question that I have no answer to. Being A LEO and having a CWL, when I am not on duty I still follow the rules given for any other CWL holder, right? Keep in mind that I am federal (Coast Guard). __________________ HDR Ban!? It's a shame all of my guns sank with my boat last week... Time to catch up.....like mayonnaise

October 24, 2005, 04:18 PM	#3
tanstaafl4y Senior Member Join Date: November 6, 2004 Location: Virginia Posts: 136	You may want to review you Coast Guard Regulations. As an Army Military Policeman I had ZERO ability to carry a firearm and no law enforecement authority off the base. With that said, I was North Carolina BLET certified, So I was able to get on the rolls as a reserve police officer in a small jurisdiction. All I had to do was watch the drunk tank and answers phones ocassionally. I was more interested in community service rather than carrying tin and cred's. Something to keep inmind your "Advanced Training" may open you up to greater "civil liability". Also are you a sworn federal agent or just a graduate of Boarding Team Member School. FWIW, Sworn lawenforcement do not need a CHP/CWL (Whatever) when off-duty. Their police ID is sufficent. You can thank George W. for that one. I think NYC is one of the few places that does not recognize police ID's __________________ "There ain't no such thing as a free lunch" -popularized by Sci-Fi author Robert A Heinlein

October 24, 2005, 04:55 PM	#5
Trapp Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2004 Location: KTN Posts: 1,221	I am a Boarding Officer (Step up from BTM).....Legally, I can make arrests (though we Never do, just detain people for the local cops) searches all that good stuff.....As far as status as a Fed....I think it's a grey area. Depending on what I am doing I can act in the capacity of a Border Control agent, I have Customs authority, and our main authority of "enforcing all applicable laws and federal regulations" As far as off duty I have the FL CWL, so I carry off base. __________________ HDR Ban!? It's a shame all of my guns sank with my boat last week... Time to catch up.....like mayonnaise

October 24, 2005, 05:02 PM	#6
Trapp Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2004 Location: KTN Posts: 1,221	Willy... First, I do have some authority on land (not all land.....) Second, Why so condescending? I think this post has gone in the wrong direction of the question I am asking. Basically, The question is about self defense Not being a cop off duty. Some of the laws for Florida contradict training for my job. I am assuming State laws are Rule 1. I was wanting to know if instincts from training came into play, how accountable I would be. __________________ HDR Ban!? It's a shame all of my guns sank with my boat last week... Time to catch up.....like mayonnaise

October 24, 2005, 01:33 PM	#2
sendec Junior member Join Date: April 18, 2005 Posts: 517	Pretty much, unless your agency policy says different. However, I think that there are moral and ethical concerns regarding the protection of others that a civilian may not need to consider. I think we as LEOs may have an implicit duty to respond to situations that put others at risk, though as mentioned this is really a grey area.

October 24, 2005, 04:48 PM	#4
Sir William Senior Member Join Date: October 13, 2004 Posts: 3,261	The first issue is simple. You have a moral obligation to respond to a cry for help as a citizen. You have NO duty to respond. You may not act as a FLEO. Unless you are on duty and assigned to a post, you are not authorized to act in any LE role. There could be a smokey of the sea issue raised. If you are on land, what authority do you have? None. You are a citizen. I suggest you speak to a superior officer concerning your lack of rights, responsibilities and authority.

October 25, 2005, 01:05 AM	#7
Sir William Senior Member Join Date: October 13, 2004 Posts: 3,261	Not condescending. I didn't read you as a hot dog. I simply suggest that it is a better course of action to have a tete a tete with a superior officer than ask on a open firearms forum. I am no expert on vicarious liability. I would simply imagine that you would be on your own. No governmental immunity, USCG will not support you and you should think citizen when off duty and off post. I mean no disrespect. I was told at FLETC that if I see a murder in a parking lot that it was none of my business unless, it was a federal installation/reservation.