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Old October 23, 2005, 02:24 PM   #1
Daniel BOON
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Rottweiler vs. Transients.

I have a male Rottweiler that weighs about 115lbs; thats small for a Rott, male or female; but he is as quick as a snake, with the jaws of a crocodile. now Oscar takes his job of guarding the family and property very seriously, and allows nobody to approach; that includes cub scouts, paper boys, and his favorite, transients.
We live in the 'burbs of Las Vegas, and there are crimminals/transients on every corner, all of which would steal Christ off the cross, and go back for the nails; they like to wait by the red lights, then approach the car/pickup, aggresively pan handling or worse; Did I mention Oscar likes to ambush transients? they get a face full of teeth and foam the first time, after that, all bets are off....now when we pull up to a red light, they move away mumbling to themselves; and Oscar hunkers down, with a big grin on his face, ready for the next one.
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Old October 24, 2005, 05:40 AM   #2
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Horray for Rottweilers, I've been thinking about getting one. I know a lady who runs a rescue/shelter mainly for Rotties. Really smart dogs, one of the best breeds for protection IMO, affectionate, and loyal. I'm thinking about getting a dog in the next couple of years (big decision) and it's between a Rottie and a German Shepherd. The former has the edge as far as body mass, and I live in Houston, and it's a bit uncomfortable for long-haired dogs in the summertime here. I also know that I can get a very well-trained, 6-month-old Rottweiler for free (besides the adoption fee) so if I am going to own a dog I seem destined for a Rottweiler.
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Old October 24, 2005, 07:10 AM   #3
Mark54g
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Rotties are great dogs as long as the owner doesn't abuse them and think they are somehow an attack robot. I wish I could get one here, but many homeowner's insurance companies will either drop you or surcharge you if your dog is on the "black list" and rotties are on the list. It can double your yearly cost to insure with one of them, and that's just not fair to the people who actually like some of those breeds and would care for them in a way that would keep them from being made into hostile terrors.
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Old October 24, 2005, 07:29 AM   #4
Bowtier
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My favorite breed. I've had at least one rot since I was about 8. Saved my butt once at least. I was playing in the front yard & a BIG German shepherd came onto the yard growling & snapping, well Ox (my male rot) came out from around the corner of the house & stopped half way between me & the Shep. Then took off after it in a ferocious pile of dust, drool, & blood. They went out of sight & I went & got dad. I never saw the German shepherd again & some years later my dad told me what he found in the brush row (not pretty) Ever since then I will always have a Rot or two. They will protect with their lives without considering themselves, seems especially for a kid.
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Old October 24, 2005, 10:09 AM   #5
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The Rotty Smile

"...Oscar hunkers down, with a big grin on his face...", yes - the famous Rotty "smile". Almost makes them look friendly, doesn't it? Rotty's are great dogs, particularly when they are cared for well in an appropriate setting.

Regarding the insurance cost, if you get a Rotty from an adoption agency, and the dog is not a "purebred", then it is probably fair to say that it is a "mixed breed". That puts the insurance into a different classification.
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Old October 24, 2005, 11:05 AM   #6
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Big Rot/lab

My last dog was a lab/dob. He would do the same, protect the car with fangs and foam. But he was unpredictable around kids.
So when he was getting old and dying of cancer, I decided to research my next dog.
I don't particularly like pure breds, both because of the ailments associated with inbreeding, and also for the same insurance reasons. So I found a "mutt". His mother was a small rottweiller, and his father a chocolate lab.
He came out to be a beautiful 163 pound black lab/rot that looks like a lab on steroids! His paws are a big as my hands and my neighbor measured his chest at 50 inches!
But I would recommend this cross breed to anyone. He has the mellow temperment of a lab, without the wandering and crazyness, yet the devotion. and obidience of a Rottweiller.
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Old October 24, 2005, 06:15 PM   #7
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I have 2 male Rotties and they're awsome. I don't trust them around strangers or strange children. They are the best deterent I can think of. I'll take them over ADT any day. They will defend their people to the death and seem almost impervious to pain when they get going. I feel better when I'm not home knowing that they're protecting the family. I'm the only one in the house that will use firearms. But, that is another disscusion.
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Old October 24, 2005, 06:44 PM   #8
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Dobes are just superior...

Dobes are better ie. better looking, more refined, wiser, faster, better at math... Yawning... Actually a Dobe...is roughly 1/2 Rottie and 1/2 Greyhound... However, the Dobe does have some German Short-haired pointer and some Beauceron likely in the mix too... I prefer dobes...and then german shepherd(shepherd is probably a better guard dog...but I like the dobe's speed and short-hair...and personality) Rotties are okay...but they are so bulky and I personnely don't trust their personalities as much as I do the dobes and shepherds... A good dog is better and safer than a gun! A bad dog is worser and more dangerous than a gun!
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Old October 24, 2005, 07:22 PM   #9
butch50
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Quote:
Oscar takes his job of guarding the family and property very seriously, and allows nobody to approach; that includes cub scouts, paper boys,
Quote:
My last dog was a lab/dob. He would do the same, protect the car with fangs and foam. But he was unpredictable around kids.
Quote:
have 2 male Rotties and they're awsome. I don't trust them around strangers or strange children.
From the mouths of their owners....
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Old October 24, 2005, 07:32 PM   #10
Daniel BOON
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Oscar the Rott

Hi again....
I didn't realize I would get so much input so quickly; Oscar is a 6 yr old male rescue. He has a abusive backround (X-owner is now in prison for domestic violence) when I got him he was totally out of control; the peckerwood that had him from birth trained him as a police dog/military dog; Rotts do not respond well to that type of training, there is no need to, they do it naturally.
BUT......they do need be very well socialized, especially around kids and other dogs, in that order. my dog is deathly afraid of out 8 oz African Grey parrot, but will eat any animal he deems a danger to himself or the family. 4 legs or two; so good training is esscencial, as it is with any dog;
any how, I found a lady who had a security company for 10 yrs, on the docks of seattle, without one bite; she has helped me train with Oscar for the last 8 months, and he has made a complete turn around;
as far as the owner making bad decisions with a Rott; We live in a large apt. complex outside Las Vegas. its the only complex that will allow large breed dogs. I.E pitts, boxers, Danes,Oscar has yet to get into a fight; has not bitten any kids/adults, and has good social manners. but.......he will not allow anybody to approach closely, either on his daily walk, or riding in the SUV... for the most part he ignores people/dogs but is always watchful.
I have 2 weapons in every room, but I'm glad Oscar is on duty day and night.
Dobes? I love them..
if anybody needs a trainer, or just wants to ask ?? let me know....
my e-male is daniel121350@yahoo.com. be sure to put something interesting in the box title. so i'll know who is knocking........game over.
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Old October 24, 2005, 10:26 PM   #11
losangeles
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You all may be right. I'm not much of a dog guy to begin with and rotts are a little too much for me since there are plenty of children in my presence (in my home, sports teammates of my kids, etc) and I remember one rott biting the face off of one of my friend's kids (his own rott, very strange occurence).
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Old October 24, 2005, 11:46 PM   #12
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My English Mastiff friend here doesn't have a mean bone in his body but we don't get anyone lurking around home.

All breeds mentioned are fine breeds and should be obedience trained - not trained as attack dogs. Most dogs are naturally territorial and protective. This guy and his little sisterr (he was 182# and she 154# last week at vet's office) are trained to "heel on leash - come - sit - down-stay" and are reliable protection without being a threat to even small children.

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Old October 24, 2005, 11:55 PM   #13
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I own a rottie/ ridgeback mix. VERY smart dog, very loyal... but he won't take cr@p from anyone, including my wife. He "lets" me discipline him as the pack alpha, but even there he gets too big for his britches sometimes and I have to play the whole domination game and reassert my authority.

On the plus side he's 100lbs of red hair and teeth, with a bigger chest than Arnold at his best. Sometimes I wonder if we were broken into at night if I would ever know, other than Nikki not being hungery in the morning.

He's put himself between my wife and strangers more than once, and I'm certain he would lay down his life for either of us... but he's definitely not the dog for everybody. It takes a LONG time before he accepts someone as a friend.

Funny thing is he has no problems whatsoever with kids, other than sometimes he plays too rough. He forgets that he just brush past a kid while playing and knock them down... but no anger problems or snapping at children. He saves it for the adults, he probably figures we should know better.
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Old October 25, 2005, 02:12 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighValleyRanch
His mother was a small rottweiller, and his father a chocolate lab.
Wow...i think you just described my perfect pooch. Have any pics?
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Old October 25, 2005, 05:15 AM   #15
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I have a German Vorsteh Dog, the best "allround" dog u can get. I use him for hunting and home protection. He is predicatable around kids but can be a handful for peeps thats not used to dogs.
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Old October 25, 2005, 10:27 AM   #16
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I am sure they are nice dogs, but I am leary of all those attack type breeds. I saw a statistic once IICR that 60-70% of owners or their family members are bit by their own dogs.
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Old October 25, 2005, 03:13 PM   #17
HighValleyRanch
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JCIMS:
Quote:
Wow...i think you just described my perfect pooch. Have any pics?
Here's one I took this morning:
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Old October 25, 2005, 11:05 PM   #18
Shot_24
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Wow HVR, Beautiful dog. He is one stout looking dog.
My friend owns a boxer/lab mix.
I personally have owned all labs with the exception of one retriever that had a bad problem socializing w/others. Don't know why it was as my family had been very loving to it and had other animals at the time. He actually bit my twin in the face and had to be put down. VERY SAD DAY...
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Old October 26, 2005, 12:02 AM   #19
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Dainel Boon ---

Regarding your rottie --- and in your own words --

“and has good social manners. but.......he will not allow anybody to approach closely, either on his daily walk, or riding in the SUV...”

Sir, this is not good social manners for a dog, and is not good training regardless of if it’s a protection dog, a police dog or a family pet. Generalized aggression towards everyone but the handler / owner is an outdated training goal / method only used by certain military patrol dogs who police walled areas of secure facilities, It is not at all suitable for a dog out in the general population. Your dog is, as you describe it indiscriminately protective of you in public and that may be a problem for both you and him someday, worst of all you seem at lest somewhat proud of his behavior. Think about it, what if a small child runs up to you and your dog? Do you not thing that there could be a situation when this would be a major problem or liability for you both? I urge you to investigate further training, for the sake of you and your dog. I personally am all for protection dog training, if done well and appropriately, however what you describe is not that.

To everyone else who responded talking about how great and protective their dogs are ask yourself this --- would you feel well protected if you were just carrying around a nickel plated desert eagle that you had never shot, knew nothing about how to use the thing, but had confidence in that it sure “looked scary” when you flashed it to people. Walking around with an untrained dog regardless of it’s breed, size, barking ability, apparent lack of socialization or anti-social behavior or so forth and thinking that it is anything other than a deterrent pure ignorance. Go and watch and read about protection dog training, see what the response of most green dogs is to gunfire, see what it takes to teach dogs to bite in the proper manner (think about it -- if your beloved fido bites an armed bag guy’s leg his time on this earth is probably going to be real short) --- you don’t have to become a master at these techniques (I don’t train but have worked extensively with various working dogs) to appreciate the fact that it’s very involved and that placing any confidence in an untrained dog is folly. Yes sometimes the family pet nails the bad guy but good, just like sometimes the guy who has no training and a 25 or 32 pocket pistol he has never shot successfully defends himself with that weapon --- but I would not recommend it and would sure not count on it.

None of what I have said is meant to disparage trained protection dogs, I personally think that patrol / protection dog training and competition is great, however like armed personal protection it’s also a lot of work and something that has to be done well or not at all. I hope for the safety of you and your dogs that you realize this, as someone had to say it.

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Old October 26, 2005, 02:11 AM   #20
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Thanks!

HVR, thanks for the pic! That's' a fine looking pooch...great coat! He looks like he's got a nice mix of attributes from his mom and pop. I think my girls could use his collar for a belt.
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Old October 26, 2005, 10:07 AM   #21
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I love dogs as much as the next person, but I would never have a dog in my house that I did not trust 100%. I see a lot of people here (and in the world in general) who seem to be proud of the fact that they have a big, mean dog that is somewhat on the fringe in regards to social behavior. My ex girlfriend used to tell me - the bigger the truck and the meaner and bigger the dog, the smaller the _____. I have no idea if she is right, but knowing her I bet she did the research. LOL

JM
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Old October 26, 2005, 12:09 PM   #22
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Damn right I don't trust them around strangers or strange children. I don't need the hassle of being sued and charged with something if my dogs bite a person. They love their pack members but I'm not taking any chances with strangers. They love my children and are fine with my 2 cats. They are well socialized but I feel it's better to be safe than sorry quote that.
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Old October 26, 2005, 12:22 PM   #23
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I'm with OJ on this one. English Mastiffs are the couch potato standard all others are measured by, and they are intensely affectionate and loyal to their family. But when a threat presents itself? Let's just say that the Romans used Mastiffs to fight lion and bear in the arenas, and in the times of Sir Lancelot, they could and did take armored knights out of the saddle. The aggressiveness has been pretty much bred out of them since then, but they have a natural instinct to protect family, and don't need to be, nor should they be, trained as a protection dog. As to aggression trained dogs, I worked with a K-9 officer who put it like this: "Having an aggression trained dog around your family is like having a loaded gun with a mind of its own".

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Old October 26, 2005, 01:47 PM   #24
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good things come in smaller packages, too

I have had a German Shepherd dog, a Doberman, various mixed breeds, and loved them all. However, the BEST all around dog is... none of the above. It's an Irish terrier.

In WW I, Irish terriers were used behind the lines as messengers. They are utterly fearless and will defend their families to the death. But they are unfailingly polite, intelligent, and phenomenally good with children. They know perfectly well who is in the "circle of trust" (to borrow that great phrase from "Meet the Parents"...love that movie) and who is not. They are alert and watchful, and they can be L-O-U-D. My female Irish have both been "nannie dogs" to our children, and they will let kids come up to them and love on them and just be as happy as can be. But let some noise happen outside, and they are right there, barking that "threat" bark.

They stand approximately 18 inches at the shoulder, and weigh roughly 30 pounds unless they mooch too many goodies and expand their waistlines. They do not shed, either. Being double-coated, they need to be stripped which is a different sort of grooming, but you won't have a dog dying of heat in the Houston summer (I'm in Spring, just north of Houston), won't have to worry about problems with kids or others, WILL get a good watchdog, and should not have insurance agency issues.

Irish terriers have no genetic diseases inherent in the breed with the exception of corny feet, and that is almost gone from the breed now.

You CANNOT GET ONE AT PET CITY, however. You have to go through the Irish Terrier Club of America to get in touch with a breeder. The breed is tightly controlled to keep it out of the hands of the puppy mill people. If you do get one from a pet store, it will NOT be the quality dog you want.

Go to www.irishterriers.com for a good view of the breed.

Anyway, there are other options, and the Irish is THE best!

Springmom,
slave of Jackson and Pippin, Irish Terriers par excellence
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Old October 27, 2005, 06:14 AM   #25
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Springmom,

Your are 100% correct about the Irish Terriers. My inlaw's neighbor has one. He's protective, yet friendly and well behaved around their three year old and new born. I would love to get one in the future but I prefer to rescue dogs from the pound.
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