The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Skunkworks > The Smithy

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old April 1, 2014, 03:56 PM   #1
DIY_guy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 1, 2014
Posts: 104
Breaking free rusted parts

We have all been there. Rusted and seized up parts that wont budge. What to do. The arts are delicate and you don’t want to strip threads or snap off a screw head or damage the screw slot. You fear an impact driver is too much for the task and will damage parts. You don’t want to use heat and ice but you are at your wits end.

Been there, done that.

So you go out and buy every penetrant you can get your hands on and pray for the best and still nothing.

Your answer might be in the form of a penetrant but you may have to mix it yourself. I ended up Googling for an answer and came upon this info that was gleaned from Machinist’s Workshop magazine.

It calls for equal parts Automatic transmission fluid and Acetone. Should you encounter corroded screws or bolts and find yourself in need of penetrating fluid I can highly recommend this concoction. I found this blurb online.

Machinist’s Workshop magazine tested penetrants for break out torque on rusted nuts.

They arranged a test of all the popular penetrants with the control being the torque required to remove the nut from a “scientifically rusted” environment.

Penetrating oil ….. Average "break free" load
None …………………........ 516 pounds
WD-40 ………………........ 238 pounds
PB Blaster …………........ 214 pounds
Liquid Wrench ……...... 127 pounds
Kano Kroil …………....…. 106 pounds
ATF-Acetone mix…....….53 pounds (much like Ed’s red)
.
The ATF-Acetone mix was a “home brew” mix of equal parts automatic transmission fluid and acetone.

Note the “home brew” was better than any commercial product at unseizing rusted fasteners and not just by a little. It really out performed any other product on the market.. Its much less expensive than specialty oils as well. A quart of ATF is less than $4 and a quart of acetone costs about $6.

I hoped to speed the penetrating action by submerging the entire receiver in the mixture and then vibrating it with an ultrasonic cleaner/bath. The only problem is, I don’t have an ultrasonic parts cleaner.

What I do have is an old Oster hair trimmer and an empty bean can.



Here is a short video of this engineering marvel at work.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqlZ48PRSGw

I let the receiver soak in the solution for 24 hours then wiped the entire assembly dry. The seized screws and pins were removed with normal hand held screwdriver torque with no damage to the parts. The fluid had soaked the threads the entire depth of the parts. Im impressed by this simple mixture of fluids and will store that trick for future uses.

Now the old shotgun that was buried in the ground for 7 years is reduced to 40 rusty parts but I was at least able to get it apart.

DIY_guy is offline  
Old April 1, 2014, 04:06 PM   #2
Dixie Gunsmithing
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 27, 2013
Location: Ohio
Posts: 939
I liked the vibrator on the paint can. Wonder if one could find a barber to bum one from?

I will try the mix, and see how it does.
Dixie Gunsmithing is offline  
Old April 1, 2014, 04:37 PM   #3
DIY_guy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 1, 2014
Posts: 104
Im just a shadetree knife maker and gun tinkerer so I make do with what I have on hand. It worked very well.
DIY_guy is offline  
Old April 1, 2014, 04:54 PM   #4
Goatwhiskers
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 8, 2009
Location: Batchelor, La.
Posts: 479
I've been preaching that for quite some time, had a lot of folks tell me I'm wrong, but I just ignore them. Apparently the acetone is thin enough to creep into very tight places and carries some oil with it, all I know is it has worked for me for years, not only in the shop but outside with various farm equipment. I no longer have to use a torch to heat up old rusty bolts. GW
Goatwhiskers is offline  
Old April 1, 2014, 08:29 PM   #5
Dixie Gunsmithing
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 27, 2013
Location: Ohio
Posts: 939
I actually like the vibrator idea, and found an old razor I had hear, so I will give that a try to speed cleaning along. I usually build a dam around pins, screws, etc, with clay, then put the penetrating fluid in it, so it couldn't run all over, and let it set overnight.
Dixie Gunsmithing is offline  
Old April 1, 2014, 08:56 PM   #6
DIY_guy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 1, 2014
Posts: 104
Vibrator???? Hell no! I built me an ultrasonic gun part servicing device. I didnt build no vibrator.
DIY_guy is offline  
Old April 2, 2014, 12:23 AM   #7
nemesiss45
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 6, 2014
Posts: 361
Awesome. I will remember this next time I have a stuck part
nemesiss45 is offline  
Old April 2, 2014, 03:12 AM   #8
HiBC
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 13, 2006
Posts: 3,810
Its been a long time since I used an ultra sonic cleaner,but we had one in the shop and I did use it upon occasion.I have a vague memory that it required water based fluids.
Solvents,etc were not to be used.I have forgotten why.It could be they got hot.

Given Kroil performed very well,I wonder how it might work with a little acetone.
HiBC is offline  
Old April 2, 2014, 09:20 AM   #9
gyvel
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 30, 2009
Location: Northern AZ
Posts: 5,229
Quote:
So you go out and buy every penetrant you can get your hands on and pray for the best and still nothing.
You haven't tried "every penetrant" until you try "100% natural wintergreen oil," available at your local health food store. (Not the Walgreen's stuff.)

It was a tip that was passed to me by the late Clarence M. Bates, a master machinist and maker of numerous .45-70 revolvers in his day. (When you find them, they are marked "CMB".)

To date it is THE best penetrant and rust dissolver I have ever used.
gyvel is offline  
Old April 2, 2014, 10:14 AM   #10
DIY_guy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 1, 2014
Posts: 104
Thanks for the tip. From a performance standpoint I would like to see something of substance to warrant the HUGE cost difference in buying wintergreen oil vs the very low cost of ATF and acetone. A quick search indicates that wintergreen oil would be about 10 times the cost of ATF and acetone.
DIY_guy is offline  
Old April 2, 2014, 03:03 PM   #11
gyvel
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 30, 2009
Location: Northern AZ
Posts: 5,229
Quote:
A quick search indicates that wintergreen oil would be about 10 times the cost of ATF and acetone.
A small bottle at my local tree hugger store is about 6 bucks, but it lasts for years. (A little goes a very long way.) A quart of ATF and a quart of acetone? I don't know, but I can't see ATF and acetone being 60 cents.
gyvel is offline  
Old April 2, 2014, 03:26 PM   #12
Clark
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 4, 1999
Location: WA, the ever blue state
Posts: 3,155
That penetrating oil test data above showed up on a dozen forums 2 years ago, and it made the rounds 4 years ago:

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/for...k/21737/page1/

http://www.jeepsunlimited.com/forums...t-rusted-stuff

Snopes does not address this, but does talk about WD40 as hair spray.

I have taken ~ 100 rusty barrels off old military actions and I find that Kroil soaked in for 5 minutes will cut the torque by 50%.
That is not exact, as no two barrels are the same. and once the rust is cracked it is easy.
__________________
The word 'forum" does not mean "not criticizing books."
"Ad hominem fallacy" is not the same as point by point criticism of books. If you bought the book, and believe it all, it may FEEL like an ad hominem attack, but you might strive to accept other points of view may exist.
Are we a nation of competing ideas, or a nation of forced conformity of thought?
Clark is offline  
Old April 5, 2014, 01:22 PM   #13
Gunplummer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 11, 2010
Location: South East Pa.
Posts: 1,523
Been using ATF for years on everything. It really cuts bad carbon build up too.
Gunplummer is offline  
Old April 5, 2014, 01:34 PM   #14
4V50 Gary
Staff
 
Join Date: November 2, 1998
Location: Colorado
Posts: 17,045
Didn't know about ATF/Acetone. thanks.

BTW, when Kroil failed, I used a hand held torch to heat it up. Had to do it with several guns.
__________________
Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. Molon Labe!
4V50 Gary is offline  
Old April 5, 2014, 01:57 PM   #15
Garycw
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 27, 2011
Location: Ohio-Kentucky - florida
Posts: 1,171
Breaking free rusted parts

PB BLASTER works wonders on rust. I've found EEZOX works good too.

Edit:After looking at the home brew results I'll be mixing up some ATF & nail polish remover.

Last edited by Garycw; April 5, 2014 at 04:28 PM.
Garycw is offline  
Old April 15, 2014, 12:35 PM   #16
pjh421
Junior Member
 
Join Date: January 2, 2010
Posts: 1
Nice thread. Next thing to do now that you have a collection of delicate but rusty parts is to buy some feed grade molasses. Get a bucket and mix with water to make a very gentle, effective and biodegradable de-rust solution. It takes a couple weeks to turn rust into black slime. Just rinse with water from time to time so you can check your progress. Anyway, its cheap and easy. To clean up, dump it in your yard.
pjh421 is offline  
Old April 15, 2014, 02:14 PM   #17
RickB
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 1, 2000
Location: Western WA
Posts: 5,845
I had a rusty revolver, which I soaked (submerged) for a week in mineral spirits, followed by weeks of regular hosings with WD40 (which I happened to have on the shelf), and some internal parts were still bone-dry; no penetration at all.
RickB is offline  
Old April 15, 2014, 11:33 PM   #18
Sierra280
Junior member
 
Join Date: July 29, 2013
Location: Gardnerville, NV
Posts: 569
Quote:
Garycw PB BLASTER works wonders on rust. I've found EEZOX works good too.
Being a professional mechanic, 'peanut butter blaster' as we all call it around here; has always been my goto. After reading this thread I'm going to try the 50/50 ATF/acetone mix in a pressurized can and see how it compares.

That being said, I always thought that WD-40 was little more than scented diesel, many things work better.
Sierra280 is offline  
Old April 16, 2014, 01:01 PM   #19
F. Guffey
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 18, 2008
Posts: 2,780
Discovery and rediscovery, there is Reslone, Marvel Mystery oil, there is ATF, one is for slip the other is for minimum slip to non slip, one was identified as D, the other was identified as F.

Some of the newer stuff is a repackage of the old stuff. I never got into Kroll oil for Fred's Red? Then there was the long fiber, most impressive when watched whole turning a handle while paying your bill, but, I want my lube to be thrown off and away whole removing heat to the housing.

Long fiber lube worked with Federal type ball bearings, but when tapered and long roller bearings replaced ball bearings the lube had to improved. Long fiber did not lube when cold and got too thin when hot. Then disc brakes added heat.

F. Guffey
F. Guffey is offline  
Old April 16, 2014, 01:14 PM   #20
F. Guffey
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 18, 2008
Posts: 2,780
Quote:
buy some feed grade molasses.
I never visited my grandmother that I did not take her a couple of bottles, she used it to make something she called tea, in the old days it could have been all she could afford. Then I found Grandma's Molasses with a list of minerals. She said in the beginning you had to be a horse, mule or poor to appreciate it. Then there is the 'other good stuff' with labels like North Georgia and Raccoon Mountain.

then there was the General that had his favorite called Black Strap Molasses.

F. Guffey

Last edited by F. Guffey; April 18, 2014 at 07:13 AM. Reason: change gad to had and of to or
F. Guffey is offline  
Old April 16, 2014, 01:49 PM   #21
James K
Staff
 
Join Date: March 17, 1999
Posts: 19,951
FWIW, black strap molasses is the gooey, almost tar-like, substance left after the sugar has been removed from sugar cane. It is supposed to be full of vitamins and minerals with enough sugar left to sweeten it. In color, it is dark brown, almost black, the color of old leather, which is where it gets the name "black strap".

Jim
__________________
Jim K
James K is offline  
Old April 16, 2014, 02:08 PM   #22
Jim Watson
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 25, 2001
Location: Alabama
Posts: 11,372
And of course the OTHER worthwhile use for molasses is to ferment and distil it into rum.


If you are wet tumbling your brass with steel pins, the same setup will remove rust from anything small enough to roll around in the drum. I have used it for rusted magazines and scope mounts.
Jim Watson is offline  
Old April 16, 2014, 08:13 PM   #23
243winxb
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 26, 2011
Posts: 1,065
I use kerosene

Acetone = Repeated or prolonged exposure may cause damage to the liver and kidney. Be careful. http://physics.utsa.edu/memslab/MSDS/Acetone.pdf
243winxb is offline  
Old April 16, 2014, 08:26 PM   #24
pgdion
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 22, 2010
Location: MPLS, MN
Posts: 1,113
Interesting, especially since I was working on one of the trucks last weekend. Had to clean up some injectors an guess what was recommended as the best way to remove carbon. Soak them in ATF.

Thanks for the tip, I'm going to give this a try next time.
__________________
597 VTR, because there's so many cans and so little time!
pgdion is offline  
Old April 17, 2014, 03:10 PM   #25
DavidAGO
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 7, 2008
Location: Magnolia, AR
Posts: 205
I have bought rusted old pipe wrenches and adjustable wrenches and soak them in ATF/Acetone, they always break free and clean up. If you have an engine that is seized up with rust you can fill the cylinders up with the mixture, plug off the oil filler hole and fill the crankcase to the rocker covers and it will free it. good stuff. Keep the acetone off your skin and don't breathe it .

David
DavidAGO is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:30 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.12866 seconds with 9 queries