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Old October 23, 2005, 09:48 PM   #26
Powderman
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Quote:
been wondering when someone was going to mention stairways try going downstairs into a dark basement with open stairs that was fun
Dude, that is SO far past not fun.

That is major suckage.

The one time I had to do it, after hemming and hawing around it for a few seconds, I elected to take the first two stairs and jump the rest of the way. I figured that whoever was down there would not have a decent shot that way.

The person we were looking for was not down there, thank heavens. I keep wondering, in the back of my mind, what would have happened if he HAD been.
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Old October 23, 2005, 09:55 PM   #27
greeneggsnham
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It absolutely sucks. However, we learned a tactic from the Mossad that allows you to look into a room without being seen. I'm sure many of you fellows know what I'm talking about. Many tactics. High low duck. Light rolls... dang, lost my light... hehe. Miss nothing, not even the bathroom cabinet. Found a feller under a kitchen sink once upon a time. Glad I got out of that bidness long ago. I'll leave it up to the brave and immortal. I came home one morning and my back door was open and the only thing I had was a damxxx pellet pistol. Don't ask, and I won't tell no lies. My next door neighbor was a local reserve officer and he covered me outside while I cleared the house with my Benjamin to the point that I could reach a hidden real fire belcher. All clear was never so sweet.
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Old October 23, 2005, 11:49 PM   #28
Blackwater OPS
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Trick to avoiding the stairs is to start at the top. Just don't let go of the rope like I did once. Ouch.
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Old October 24, 2005, 11:19 AM   #29
stephen426
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I'm sure it is different if you know there is someone holed up there for sure. If it was to serve a warrent and the person was considered armed and dangerous, different tactics would come into play. I think a flash bang/and or tear gas would get their attention. If you are clearing your own house, stairs are a real pain in the butt.

Going upstairs is a real biotch as well. Your head makes a great target for someone who is laying prone with good cover. I think it is like that scene in the movie The Rock where the seal team enters the shower room. The bad guys are shooting from a elevated position with cover with criss crossing fire.

Captain Charley,
Don't get me wrong. I love my dog as well. I love my wife more though. I don't think my dog could defend her as well as I could. Hell, they would probably get killed if I was taken out. Some people are so silly about their animals sometimes. My wife's aunt decided to ride out Hurricane Charley last year at their home in Bradenton. They had no shutters and it was catagory 4 storm. She said that she would rather die than to leave her cats. I say take the damn cats and go some place that allows them. Even if she couldn't take them, she was putting her sons' and her husband's lives in danger. If I were her husband, I would have shot the cats so she wouldn't have to worry about them. They are very fortunate the hurricane swung south. Like I said, I love my dog. I love my wife more and I plan to ba around a lot longer than my dog.
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Old October 24, 2005, 12:25 PM   #30
Capt Charlie
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Stephen426
Understood, and a difficult choice no matter how you cut it. Let's just hope that it stays just theoretical for all of us.

Blackwater
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Trick to avoiding the stairs is to start at the top. Just don't let go of the rope like I did once. Ouch.
It really gets hairy when you're jumaring up that length of Bluewater and aren't sure exactly what that rope's secured to at the top .

A tac team clearing a building is usually a piece of cake. Well trained, teamwork, good equipment, and it goes down very fast and very violent. When it's just you and a couple of patrol officers, things get dicey. I don't mind the ones where granny heard a bump in the night and you find the exterior of the home secure. The ones I hate are the "I came home & found my door kicked in", or worse yet, the "My ex broke in and he has a gun" scenario, and SRT isn't available. It's those that make me wish I was retired .
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Old October 24, 2005, 01:46 PM   #31
BreacherUp!
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For LEOs, I would advise having an extendable pocket mirror that can be put on your duty belt, or within easy reach in your car. It is worth every cent when you have to stick your grape up into an attic, looking below stairs or even rooms. One thing to remember, if you're using a mirror, you need a cover man (b/c you're not in a good position to defend youself while you're manipulating the mirror). Also, once you "clear" that area with the mirror, you must keep looking at it until you partner visually checks it. Nothing like clearing an area with the mirror, pulling it back, and someone moving right into the area you just "cleared."
It was mentioned earlier that clearing a room by yourself is inviting a bullet. You are certainly at a disadvantage, a very dangerous one at that. But it can be done if you've done it quite a bit. Hoewever, the question that I think you need to ask yourself is, "What am I trying to accomplish and at what risk?" If you're investigating the noises coming from your living room, are the articles in that room worth losing your life over? If your children are in the next room, I think we all know what that answer will be, whether you're alone or not, you're going in. My .02
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Old October 24, 2005, 06:50 PM   #32
Blackwater OPS
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It really gets hairy when you're jumaring up that length of Bluewater and aren't sure exactly what that rope's secured to at the top
Could not agree more, it gets even hairier(sp?) when some premature jacka$$ decides to toss a FB into a SMALL room with a window opening about a foot away from where you are climbing. Thank god this was during an exercise or I would have been KIA.
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deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
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Died 9/1/2005
and the best DS ever
MSG Matthew Ritz
Died 11.23.2005
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For those who have had to fight for it, Life holds a special meaning that the protected will never know.

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Old October 26, 2005, 08:34 AM   #33
hso
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Twice, once with a friend who insisted on going into his house without calling LE first. I'd had training for it, but he was so insistant that I couldn't let him go in by himself. Not something any reasonbly knowledgable person wants to do.
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