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Old October 16, 2005, 09:06 PM   #1
Radiki
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Getting Out and getting Tactical because of the worst.

I was reading one of those "end of the world is coming books" today while in the local bookstore. Made me think a little. Although I am confident that the .45 and 17 rounds I carry with me on a daily basis is a good comprimise for "average" touble I might encounter in my area. What if something really bad happens? I am not talking about hurricanes or or tornados. What if some extremist group or rouge nation does start a nuclear war? Biological war? or some other kind of craziness. I have a bug out bag of sorts.... extra ammo, first aid, change of clothes, other goodies for food, fire, etc. which will probably cover me for local catastrophies until help reaches me or I can find help... But what if the situation arises that you know from the moment it happens that you could not rely on help or government or police or fire etc. for weeks?... For Months?... Years???
If I survived I have multiple options for possible shelter in many middle of nowhere places (family in the mountains.. couple friends in "not likely to be attacked places") but to get there, I may have to fight my way through, or defend it once there. Obviously everyone would like a tractor trailer full of MRE's, ammo, weapons, and survivial gear. But assuming you had to get gear in [truck, jeep, car] possibly with other people, fast, what would you take? How much could you realistically store and mantain prior to the event happening in terms of first aid, food, ammo? I am not looking to turn my home into a doomsday storehouse.. but if you have two or three bags to take with you to possibly start a new life somewhere else with little to no communication with the outside world, and no idea who the agressors are, where they are, or what will happen next what would you bring?
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Old October 16, 2005, 10:17 PM   #2
Capt Charlie
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I trained in wilderness survival with the Natl. Park Service when they assigned me to back country. The trick is not to pack direct survival tools, but rather to take those things that help you find or make your own tools, shelter, etc. When planning for survival, you never think of it in times of a finite time period. You plan as though it were forever! In this case, think of a gun as an expendable item. Ammo won't last forever, they're heavy, and they don't make good clubs. More than one good knife and axe are permanant tools. Water is usually your first need. Iodine tabs for water are temporary; you'll sooner or later run out of them. A Sweetwater or PUR filter will last a long, long time, and a plastic drop cloth, under the right conditions, will gather water (condensation) almost forever. It's stretched across a pit in the ground with a rock placed on the plastic in the middle. Place a cup under the plastic where the rock is. Ta-da! clean water. Hope you see what I'm getting at. I'm suggesting that everything you carry should be weighed in ounces, not pounds, and evaluated by how long it will last, and what roll it plays in helping you live directly off the land. Then next thing I would suggest is a good, hands-on course in wilderness survival. All the tools and goodies in the world aren't any good if you can't make a deadfall trap, navigate by the stars, or know what's edible and what's poisonous.
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Old October 16, 2005, 10:21 PM   #3
noone
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hmm, not really sure. although I have been talking to family and friends about this recently, due in part to what happened in N.O. so far I have just been all talk, but have stocked up on more ammo. Seeing as have all my camping gear, and hiking gear loaded up and ready at all times anyway. suppose if i were to stock up on camp food, i could be self sustainable for awhile. this would give me enough time to get the important people in my life(if possible) and figure out a decent plan.
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Old October 16, 2005, 10:50 PM   #4
Radiki
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"Iodine tabs for water are temporary; you'll sooner or later run out of them. A Sweetwater or PUR filter will last a long, long time, and a plastic drop cloth, under the right conditions, will gather water (condensation) almost forever. It's stretched across a pit in the ground with a rock placed on the plastic in the middle. Place a cup under the plastic where the rock is. Ta-da! clean water."

Just as an add-on, I am not a eviormental expert so I don't know exactly how all this works, but i would assume that the rain and water could be contamianted by radiation, chemicals or biologicals, right? Are there any filtration systems that can protect against this? or any tests that can be done on collected water before drinking it?
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Old October 16, 2005, 11:32 PM   #5
Capt Charlie
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Quote:
but i would assume that the rain and water could be contamianted by radiation, chemicals or biologicals, right? Are there any filtration systems that can protect against this? or any tests that can be done on collected water before drinking it?
For biologics and chemicals, absolutely! Google Sweetwater Guardian, or PUR or MSA hand held filters. Along with ceramic filters that strain out biologics down to .02 microns (everything but viruses), they use a long lasting activated charcoal filter for chemicals. I have the Sweetwater Guardian, and have used it to pump out water so nasty that even sewer rats wouldn't drink out of it, and the result was pure, clean, good tasting water. Will it filter out chemical weapons like serin, etc? I don't know, & doubt any of them have ever been tested for things like that. There could be a problem with radiation though. I'm no expert there, but gamma radiation won't permanently irradiate water. The problem will be with alpha and beta particles that continue to emit radiation, and I don't know if a filter would work there or not. There are chemical tests for the water, but the number of tests needed to scan for numerous contaminates would be many, along with complex and costly.

It's interesting to consider how society would degrade in something like this. There's an old movie, made in the early 70's I believe, titled "No Blade of Grass" that does a neat job on this. Great and thoughtful viewing, if you can find it. Sort of a "Lord of the Flies" on a continental scale. The scenario begins with a virus that kills all members of the plant order we call the grasses. Starvation is rampant, and society breaks down into a kill or be killed anarchy. This one was well done and really makes you think. Lots of guns in it too!
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Old October 17, 2005, 10:34 AM   #6
Double Naught Spy
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Quote:
Although I am confident that the .45 and 17 rounds I carry with me on a daily basis is a good comprimise for "average" touble I might encounter in my area.
My guess is that you are already over-armed for the average trouble you might encounter in your area. It is only very rarely that non-LEOs ever get to do a mag change in a civilian gun fight. So you are more prepared for the 1 in a 1000 sort of gun fight, assuming you end up being in it.

I am not knocking your decision. Me, I prefer to carry two spare mags or one spare mag and a bug.

As for the whole new life post disaster scenario, what you bring depends on how long it may last. After Katrina, officials announcing the evacuation of the TX/LA coasts for Rita were suggesting evacuees take 3 months of prescription medication with them. That's MONTHS.

My favorite post event survival book is a 1950s fictional book called, "Alas Babylon." It is about surviving after a nuclear war and all the trials and tribulations a family and some community go through as a result of being without resources or contact with the outside world. While it is a qutie dated book, the same sorts of hardships documented there could happen now, the only difference being that the people did not migrate to a new location.
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Old October 17, 2005, 10:55 AM   #7
Glenn E. Meyer
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SM Stirling has a series starting with Dies the Fire.

The premise is that modern civilization fails. Guess what most people die. Some communities survive but the general life seems quite unpleasant. Those that do survive because of local circumstances that allow some reasonable organization and agriculture.

Most of our scenarios involve some breakdown and we take our bug out bags into the country, hold out and move back to WHAT?

I'm too old for a Darwinian, Mad Max situation. If civilization totally fails, I go back to my original plan of stocking scotch, steaks, hersey's kisses and brandy. Enjoy and wait for the end.

I think my rambling point is that if civilization is down for months across the whole country, then it probably isn't getting back up without a restart from the 14th century level of tech. Thus, learn how to farm after the great starvation deaths and plagues.

That's a different level of planning from let's make it through Katrina.
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Old October 17, 2005, 11:00 AM   #8
Derius_T
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Captain Carlie has the right of it. My absolute, in the bag already necessities, are 2 superior fixed knives, (kabar) 1 machete, 1 small axe, a handheld water purifier, first aid, 50' of cordage, essential meds, fire starting tools, a signal mirror, a couple flares, and a small battery/solar powered radio. Also a couple of very high energy food/candy bars, and a couple good military flashlights. (with the different changeable lenses)

Weighs about 20-25lbs I guess. Heavier than I would like, but still easily managable. Ammo runs out. A good utility and/or fighting knife can keep you alive long after that......
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Old October 20, 2005, 01:37 AM   #9
losangeles
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The type of survival tools, food, water, arms are well chronicled. Something not so obvious are your important documents -- passport (if you don't have one, get one), photo id cards, ATM & credit cards, birth certificate, deed/title to property, cash. Might be a good idea to have a checking account out-of-state with a healthy balance.
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Old October 20, 2005, 12:17 PM   #10
Capt Charlie
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Quote:
Something not so obvious are your important documents -- passport (if you don't have one, get one), photo id cards, ATM & credit cards, birth certificate, deed/title to property, cash. Might be a good idea to have a checking account out-of-state with a healthy balance.
I was just about to comment that there are no ATM's in the boonies, but then I remembered the rule, Always plan for the type of conditions you'll most likely be facing. If you're in Maine, obviously you won't be planning for desert survival. But I always tend to think in terms of wilderness survival out of habit. What would be needed for surviving in the remains of a nuked city, etc? I still do think that, if conditions were so catastrophic that I would be forced to live off the land, money and papers would have no value other than fire fodder.
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