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Old October 18, 2005, 10:32 PM   #1
USP45usp
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What should one do?

Honest opinion.

You have a couple of very stressful weeks, work wise, life wise, etc.. Then you have to send your Uncle to the ER where he still is, and then you have school, and another week that is sure to be just as stressful.

Your sleep has been almost nil, you are awake, but not clear thinking, and you have to get to work because your boss is going to be out for another meeting the next day.

You're tired, you're irritable, and you're just tired.

When a person is in this state, should they lock up their safety, now a danger and should be devoid of their rights, or should they carry on as they have as long as they can before just falling down from total exhaustion.

Comments?

Wayne
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Old October 18, 2005, 10:50 PM   #2
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Hmm.....I know mine will not be the popular opinion, but I think it might be best to put it down if you are irritable AND overtired AND concerned enough to wonder if you should not.
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Old October 18, 2005, 11:15 PM   #3
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Sleep deprivation is just as debilitating as alcohol
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Old October 18, 2005, 11:16 PM   #4
281 Quad Cam
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Quote:
Sleep deprivation is just as debilitating as alcohol
MUCH moreso. Outright halucinations are likely.

My rule would be... If you are questioning your ability to... Don't.

However on the other hand it sounds like you're still on track, going to school, going to work. Tough it out... It is a bear, but (from what I gather) it will alwyas get better.
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Old October 18, 2005, 11:46 PM   #5
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Wayne, do you have gun savvy friends close to you? Someone who can see you, listen to you, evaluate your state of mind? Someone you can trust to be up front and honest with you? These are the one's I'd ask this question. We can't evaluate your alertness or state of mind without listening to your speech, interpreting your body language, or looking into your eyes. You need someone that can. I hope you have that good of a friend. Problems never seem to come one at a time; they always seem to gang up on you. I understand the importance of job and school, and especially family as mine are all gone now. You can't do anyone, including your uncle, any good if you are in bad shape yourself. To help them, and solve problems, you have to help yourself first. From experience, I'm going to suggest, regardless of the cost, that you take time off from work, from school, from life, and get the rest you need. Your boss and your dean should understand if they're any kind of human beings at all, and I'll bet your uncle would want you to as well. With a little R&R, you can look at things in a new perspective, which will do you, your uncle, and those around you, a lot more good.
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Old October 18, 2005, 11:54 PM   #6
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second a day off from work for rest...... the prof and the boss will understand like Capt Charlie says if they are any kinda human being.
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Old October 19, 2005, 12:20 AM   #7
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+1 -- if you have to ask, you're too tired to carry.

Take a day off and sleep in.
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Old October 19, 2005, 01:31 AM   #8
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Sleep is good! It sounds to me like you really need some rest, man. Get that need taken care of and it will no doubt make a variety of things much more manageable.
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Old October 19, 2005, 01:36 AM   #9
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I've been without sleep and overworked several times in the past. If it lasts long enough, by the end of the week, I hardly feel I should be on the road, driving. If I were you, I wouldn't carry in that state of mind, unless you really feel it is necessary due to where you work or how late you might be out.
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Old October 19, 2005, 07:49 AM   #10
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Hmm, where to start?

In my experience, some people are better able to withstand the pressures of stress and exhaustion than others. To a certain extent, tolerance to and performance while under stress and exhaustion can be trained into a person (combat military and doctors, for example). But unless you have actually been so trained, I'd advise against pushing it, especially with something as potentially catastrophic as having a firearm on-hand. Or driving a vehicle. You just may have to "call in sick" and take a "power-sleep". And it wouldn't be a lie -- a body requires rest, it isn't optional. Look after yourself.

As far as being a hazard to yourself or others by having guns on-hand: As long as you are actually going to get some sleep pronto-like, I wouldn't worry about it too much. You will experience some level of decreased situational awareness while you are in deep-exhaustion sleep, even more so than "normal" sleep. With that in mind you might want to arrange for some alternative security precautions for the time being, if your situation really warrants it. But get some sleep. Nobody -- not even doctors who train for this sort of thing -- can keep burning the candle at both ends indefinately.
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Old October 19, 2005, 08:19 AM   #11
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I have been there, at one time or another.
It's time to get out and back off. Forget what everyone else needs, look out for yourself. If you can't hold yourself together you can't do anything for anyone else. Step back. Do 'me first' - crappy I know, but it works.
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Old October 19, 2005, 12:17 PM   #12
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Thanks all.

I have put the firearms into the safe for now. In the house I can get to them if need be but just going to lock all the doors/windows until I get the rest that I need.

Unfortunatly, I had to come to work today. We're short one person (and from what I understand, it's going to stay that way for the future) and my Boss had to take over their job for the road stuff and myself for all the other stuff.

I may go to the doc for sleep aids for this weekend. Thankfully, I have weekends off and can catch up there hopefully.

Yes, I thought about the hallutionations(sp) also, which is must more dangerous to me than alcohol. Haven't gotten them and I doubt that I will but why take the chance.

I guess (and from re-thinking some of my other posts from the past) that part of responsibile gun ownership is to know when it's best to know when to carry/have around and when it's better to put it up for a short time.

Thanks all.

Capt.: No, no one like that around here. I basically have 'associates', not any real friends within my trust circle (long story). Probably the reason that I spend why too much time here .

Wayne
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Old October 19, 2005, 12:36 PM   #13
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Quote:
I may go to the doc for sleep aids for this weekend. Thankfully, I have weekends off and can catch up there hopefully.
From someone who is currently working (at least one job) in the pharmaceuticals industry...

The two most popular, though most expensive, options on the market currently are Ambien and Lunesta. Based off of our records, Ambien usage through the insurance plans we process (over 1000 at this time) outstrips Lunesta by an almost 2 to 1 ratio.

Ambien seems to work the best, if it works for you. There are some people who have little luck with it (a small percentage), or who build up a resistance to it very quickly (a slightly higher percentage). One note though, when the warning states to make sure you have time for 8 hours uninterrupted sleep, they aren't joking.

A number of people have reported that Ambien 'drags' on them for part of the next day. Most report that the feeling evens out over a period of time as their system gets used to the new chemical being introduced to the blood stream. But if you start taking it, make sure that you have some 'free time' until you know what it's going to do to you.

Lunesta seems, and I want to stress the word seems, to be prescribed for people who have difficulty with Ambien. Generally speaking, our patients indicate that it doesn't seem as 'harsh' as Ambien, but has a MUCH higher rate of little to no results.

Whichever path you take, I recommend you call whoever might process your Prescription Insurance, if you have insurance. A number of plans either put specific limitations on the amount of Ambien or Lunesta that they will cover, or they might require Prior Authorization before they will cover any of it. Just ask them to verify if it is covered, and what the copay will be. They should tell you if there are any 'special steps' required.

That said, I think you did the right thing. The moment you start doubting yourself, questioning your own ability to act safely, is the time you need to step away for a little bit.
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Old October 19, 2005, 12:38 PM   #14
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Hey USP45usp, glad to see you did the smart thing and locked it up for a few days till you can get the rest you need. Even the smallest lapse can cause a death or injury, cost you your livelyhood, and possibly freedom if jail time was involved, god forbid. To say nothing of losing your right to keep any firearms. Nothing wrong with a short hiatus from carry in times like these. And be careful with the sleep aids, I work in the medical field and drugs like ambien are very powerful and can cause hallucinations.
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Old October 19, 2005, 12:58 PM   #15
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Just to add to the warnings, especially about ambien, I had a VERY bad experience with it . A few years ago my doc gave it to me for a couple of weeks. Now early in the evening, I like to enjoy a couple of glasses of wine (I know, I know... lesson learned, and the reason for this post). I only had a nice buzz on, and at bedtime took ambien. Within several days, I woke up with the WORST possible hangover you can possibly imagine! It was horrible! I was burning up with sweat just pouring off of me. I even stood outside in 20 degree weather with no shirt on, and still I was burning up! My head hurt. My stomach hurt. But the worst was that feeling of extreme agitation and jumpiness. The slightest sound had me jumping out of my skin. It took days to get over it . So brotha, heed the warning! Absolutely NO booze while you're taking that stuff, and don't use it any longer than you have to (and you will be tempted to.)
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Old October 19, 2005, 02:53 PM   #16
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Capt Charlie: With powerful drugs like these, I don't drink. Since it will be the weekend, I can take one and just "hibernate" for the two days. When my back went out, they gave me two pills (same stuff) and had me take one there. Told me to drive home (right then, dorm was just right down the road), no stops, and lay down. Did so and I was out. Got up took another pill, etc.. to the last just as he had prescribed. Felt like a million bucks (I'm still trying to find out what that stuff was). But I remember him saying that alcohol would intentsify(sp) the effects and since I was basically comatosed just taking them as prescribed, I shudder to think what they could do if on top of alcohol.

Wayne
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Old October 19, 2005, 03:33 PM   #17
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For the lack of rest - get two days worth of really good sleep. DOn't get caught up on a late night show, just get some rest.

For the stress - get laid. (I'm serious) when I was in college we studied the effects it has on the human body. The magazines were'nt kidding, it helps with stress. Craziest psychology class ever.....

Glad to hear your taking it easy.....good luck!
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Old October 19, 2005, 07:00 PM   #18
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Wayne,

I can understand not being comfortable to put it away for a while and more so I can understand getting strung out as you are saying lately. I have been there. My longest stint was to work 51hrs straight with no sleep. I was not coherant at all after that, barely speaking in complete words much less sentances. It is best, and I know how tough it can be when you are relyed upon by many, but sometimes man you just have to accept that you have reached your breaking point and take time for yourself. You sound like you need to take a day off from everything and just get the rest you need. Our senses and reflexes are what we depend on most and the more you let them deteriorate the more likely hood of making a mistake, often times one we can not undo. I like having you hear to chat with. Get some rest as soon as you can buddy.
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Old October 19, 2005, 08:40 PM   #19
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That was an interesting question Wayne posed. I've never thought of it before. I was taught that a firearm was an extention of the body and I guess that it became so ingrained- I have a much healthier fear of power tools and motor vehicles when I'm overly tired and stressed. In one way or another, I've been officially carrying the majority of the time since the summer of '87. I want to say thanks for bringing that idea to light. I'm in a position now where I may actually be able to do something benefitial in a training program.
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Old October 19, 2005, 10:22 PM   #20
USP45usp
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10-96,

I guess as we go through life, and what it may take from us, we don't realize what external aspects may act upon it.

A gun is a tool. A very powerful tool if need to be used. But we need to look at ourselves to know when maybe that tool should be put up.

I just got up and to hit the computer real fast, get a drink of water, and go back to bed.

In life, I'm finding that there really aren't any answers to any questions. Should you carry, shouldn't you carry, if you are tired, should you do this, or that.

I'm finding that it's up to the person to know their limits. And that no one should demand what those limits are except for the person that it affects.

I put up my guns, all are in the safe. I went to plan B which is a total lock down of the house, and I do have enough time to get to the shotgun at least.

I tell you the truth, too many boards will lay out blame or call one irresponsible without teaching, this board, teaches (the members are great) and then one can make a good decision about what needs to be done without a full fledge flaming.

I am grateful for such.

Thank you all.

I'm going back to bed now, I think I have one more thread to read and maybe respond.

Wayne
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Old October 20, 2005, 01:10 AM   #21
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Quote:
When a person is in this state, should they lock up their safety, now a danger and should be devoid of their rights, or should they carry on as they have as long as they can before just falling down from total exhaustion.
If you lock up your gun, you are not devoid of your rights. Your rights are still in place, but you are simply choosing not to exercise them. It is sort of the same with voting. If you chose not to vote in an election, your right to vote hasn't changed to being devoid.

If you feel like you have such mental issues (lack of sleep, medication, stress, etc.) that you should not carry a gun, then chances are that you should not be operating heavy machinery such as your automobile. I believe it would be safe to say that a lot more people (relative) get into wrecks due to such mental issues more so than people unsafely discharge firearms as a result of such mental issues.

There is something else to consider. Do you feel you are less likely to get robbed or attacked in some manner while you are having these issues? My guess is that you would be more likely to be a victim because your body language will reflect your mental state and you will have the appearance of being a much easier target. The same goes for people that are sick or feeble.

I don't know how bad off you are/were, but my guess is that you probably are not as bad off for carrying than you think, but I do think you have made a good precautionary choice.

Now, had you been having troubles with anger management, not only would I have suggested you lock up your guns, but that you let somebody else you trust lock up your guns until said crisis passed. From your description, it doesn't sound like you have an anger management issues that pertain here.
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Old October 20, 2005, 06:18 AM   #22
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USP - can you get away for a break? I had a really bad year a long time ago.
I'd worked my arse off double shifting and nights, everything was getting out of focus. Drugs didn't do much good, and I had the wife kids and mortgage to worry about. I found a place on a remote island where I went for six weeks (family came too) - after that I got together again.
It wasn't a very flash place but it was private, and the 'phone had an 'off' switch. Groceries were delivered by the daily ferry. I didn't have to talk to anyone or tell them what to do.
My cousin in Canada has a house on an island in Georgia Sound. He goes there when he needs to retreat from the World. Works for him too.
I guess it's a form of practical disengagement therapy.
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Old October 20, 2005, 01:58 PM   #23
USP45usp
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Can't get away. Boss came back today and whined about him being behind and that I'm needed, yada, yada, yada.

If I didn't like him as a person I would have just told him to live with me taking a sick day. But he is ticking me off abit though being slow about getting some of the things that I need done.

Not anger, just disappointed. I gave up the anger things a couple of months ago, didn't do me or anyone else any good .

This weekend, I may try to get out of the house. Been catching "cat naps" when I go home at night.

Wayne
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Old October 20, 2005, 04:26 PM   #24
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It's time for you, my friend, to hit the weight pile. Work out smoothly and in good form, but push it as far as you can. It's a panacea for stress and related symptoms. If you aren't a lifter, then swim, run, bike, kata..
Any of this will help you get your head on straight, bonchance!
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Old October 20, 2005, 05:47 PM   #25
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If you don't feel competent, don't mess with guns.
Same would apply if one has been drinking, taking pills, or whatever.
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