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Old October 15, 2005, 06:19 PM   #1
StormTrooper
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Danger at the Range

I wanted to hold this one in as I remeber what its like to be a youg kid. They get excited and loose focus. BUT!
I felt like I was having to watch my back today more than my down range. A man brought in his two sons and one of thier friends to the range. Dad had his own rifle and he rented a .22lr semi for the kids to shoot. I was going to keep my awareness on a little higher when I saw them come in but as I watched them it got even higher, especially when I heard the dad tell his son he had jammed 4 rounds in the pipe. I backed off and out of my lane when i heard this. I dont know if it was lack of instruction or supervision but it could have been dangerous for someone. I called out to the range master to lend a hand as well as make sure they understood the need for safety.

I think its great to be taking your young boys out to learn, but please teach them well before you get on a crowded range.
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Old October 15, 2005, 09:08 PM   #2
chrisandclauida2
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i have no problem calling the rso and rm on people. they always know it all so when you try to tell people things like dont point your gun at me they get pissy. i find the ones who know it all are the dangerous ones. if i see anyone turn their weapon down the line when they load[very commom watch next time yo go to the range] i have no problems have them corrected or kicked out. hell boys and girls this aint highschool this is your or a family members lifer. dont be afraid to get rid if the idiots let them shoot someone else. stuff like you said is less common but with all the novices doing **** i wonder why.what is worse than those who think they know it all is those who know it all teaching someone to shoot. next time you go to the range take a trip up and down the line and watch.
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Old October 15, 2005, 10:00 PM   #3
BloodyBucket03
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Range Safety

I believe maybe the father was not that experienced with the use of firearms. The first thing he should have did when he brought those young kids out their was explain muzzle awareness, range rules and common courtesies on the range, recognizing dangers and calling seize fire. Explaining the function of each weapon that they were firing and how to perform S.P.O.R.TS. on a weapon that is malfunctioning. That is the basics. I will be taking out my neighbor’s kids who are 2 teenagers to the range to fire a rifle for the first time. I have an AR-15, I do plan on giving them a full Military style breakdown on safety, how an AR works, zeroing, how to take it apart, what to do when you have a malfunction the entire bit. Range safety is important! Like you said if he had a lot of kids (More than 2) with him it would be best to do that before getting on to the range and also he should be watching them closely to make sure they are not committing any us-safe acts. Storm Trooper I commend you because if I was there I might have went up to the father and said something to him especially if I felt unsafe.
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Old October 15, 2005, 11:09 PM   #4
Talon66
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In my experience I've found that most people that shoot are "know it alls" when it comes to guns. I even saw a range/shop employee loading his Glock during a "cease fire". As a firearms instructor, I try to keep an open mind when others give advice. I'm surprised at the amount of things I can still learn even after all these years. I guess that's why I keep coming here.

I like seeing responsible people teaching and encouraging new shooters. It's the irresponsible ones you got to watch out for.
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Old October 15, 2005, 11:17 PM   #5
ClarkEMyers
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For my money 1 adult 3 children the adult should be too busy to shoot.

For my money 1 adult 3 children the adult should be too busy to shoot. 3 children on the firing line sounds to me like a case for 2 adults; for novices I like one adult per child. Although when I was teaching hunter safety the children were often much safer than their parents.
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Old October 16, 2005, 12:56 AM   #6
aflyer
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It ain't just kids.

I was at a public (though non supervised) range a couple of months ago. My wife, sister-in-law and two nephews were with me. My wife and Sis-in-law were down range changing targets, while I kept an eye on the boys, and their hands off the guns.

An older gentleman arrived and occupied the next bench. We nodded and smiled at each other and I pointed out that the ladies were down range. He acknowledged that.

A couple of minutes later, as I was going to the car for a water bottle, one of the boys poked me in the arm and pointed at the next bench.

The old gentleman had placed his rifle, pointed downrange, on some rests, and was adjusting it and snuggling down behind his scope. Both boys looked shocked and surprised... as did I.

I went over to him and pointed again at the ladies downrange. He said "Uh-huh, I see them." and snuggled down behind his scope. I said "I'd appreciated it if you left your rifle alone until they come back from downrange." He kind of frowned at me and said, "Well it isn't loaded and the bolt is open."

I was almost stunned into silence! But I quickly got over it.

"I don't want you pointing your rifle at my wife. And I don't want her to turn around and see a rifle pointing at her! Nobody is to handle a weapon when people downrange." (I had made the assumption earlier, that he would probably know some range basics because he had a couple of veteran's bumper sticker on his car.)

He grudgingly left he bench and went and fumbled in his car for something. In an attempt to ease the tension I suggested this might be a good time for him to set up a target, but he ignored me.

When the ladies came back, the boys told them what had happened. They were not pleased.

When we announced we were ready to shoot again. The old fellow fired a few rounds, then packed up his stuff and left. I don't know what he shot at, because he never went downrange to set up a target himself!

There was a universal feeling of relief when he left, and much discussion about the incident later at the burger joint. The boys were not at all happy about watching someone point a gun at their mother and their aunt.

At the very least they got a memorable lesson about shooting range saftey and responsibilities.
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Old October 16, 2005, 01:18 AM   #7
chris in va
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Aflyer, you were a LOT more patient than I would have been. I've seen RO's threaten to call the sheriff on guys like that. Gives me chills.
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Old October 16, 2005, 01:25 AM   #8
SAXD9
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The more things like this I see, the more I appreciate being able to shoot in my own backyard instead of a crowded range.

A couple months ago, on the LEO range for re-qualification, I saw a veteran officer turn his pistol sideways, pointing it down the line, while fumbling around trying to insert a magazine.

I wear my bodyarmor when I am shooting with a group like that.
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Old October 16, 2005, 01:48 AM   #9
aflyer
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chris in va
Yah I was rather patient. The only answer I can give for that is partly shock, and partly because I was at a strange, out of state shooting range. And truth be told, this was the FIRST time I had ever experienced something like this... and I have been shooting/hunting since I was 9 - I am 58.

I have been shot at, and had guns pointed at me, and read and heard about these kinds of situations, but never before watched someone do something so idiotic in what was for me a usually calm, familiar and civil place.

It must be that first stage of disbelief that often occurs in some situations. So out of context (for me) that I just didn't believe what I was seeing at first.

It was a lesson for me too!

Last edited by aflyer; October 16, 2005 at 02:27 AM.
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Old October 16, 2005, 01:51 AM   #10
stratus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SAXD9
The more things like this I see, the more I appreciate being able to shoot in my own backyard instead of a crowded range.
Amen to that. At my family's ranch we have an area that is perfect for shooting. I go there every weekend, and the only persons whose safety habits I have to worry about are myself and whoever I'm tutoring.
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Old October 16, 2005, 09:19 AM   #11
JR47
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We were at an indoor pistol range in Maryland. There were two middle-aged men in the lane next to us. They had a collection of older .25 autos, and were fiddling with them. We started to shoot, and took a break after about 15 minutes to change targets. While doing so, I heard a crack, and a really strange noise just above my head. As I glanced up, I noticed pieces of the ceiling tile drifting down. The man had discharged the weapon while aimed up, and back! I guess he was flinching in response to it's immense recoil?

I headed out, got the Range Master, and he at first talked to the pair, and then ordered them, after he had insured that their weapons were indeed onloaded, off the range. He told me that the man advised him that he always started, finger on the trigger, from a position directly above his head, arm outstretched, and then brought it down and onto target to "simulate real life". My guess was that he spent a lot of time in the "put your hands up" position in real life.
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Old October 16, 2005, 11:30 AM   #12
StormTrooper
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he starts above the head and draws downward to simulate real life scenario. That would be the first damn holster in a hat that I have seen.
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Old October 16, 2005, 02:15 PM   #13
JR47
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Thinking about that. Both of them were "round boys". Maybe a holster could only fit there? Nah, maybe they were French?
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Old October 16, 2005, 03:28 PM   #14
gddyup
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Quote:
he starts above the head and draws downward to simulate real life scenario. That would be the first damn holster in a hat that I have seen.
ROFLMAO!!

I shoot at an indoor public range and I'm always on guard for people who just don't look comfortable on the line. Anyone who gets in the lanes near me, I'll always step back for a minute and observe before continuing. The RMs there are very good and take everything very seriously which is a good thing. I haven't really had an issue yet with anyone, but I'm sure I will at some point...
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