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Old October 13, 2005, 09:51 PM   #26
Harley Quinn
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I am not a believer...

Of using small cal to kill, but the 22 magnum was the preferred rifle of a hunter I knew.
Used dogs...had a combination of hounds and Pits. He would shoot them out of trees (bear) with one shot and they were dead when they hit the ground.

If he went after hogs same thing dogs would give chase and pits would do the jowling. Lost a few dogs once in a while but when he shot them it was a well placed hit in the ear,eye etc.

So I bought myself a little 22 mag and shot a pig (domestic) right in the brain pan fell like a sack of flour. Found the bullet where you get your canadian bacon. (Jaw) Went side ways.

I have a little 30 cal carbine necked to 5.7 mm.
I can bring my Glock 17L 9mm 147 grain.

I will take you up on that hunt Rich when and where?

Harley
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Old October 13, 2005, 10:08 PM   #27
Joven
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Are we talking about hog hunting or hog shooting?

No where was hog shooting mentioned, it was hog hunting. anyone who has hunted for any length of time knows the difference. If it is not possible to make a clean kill, you don't take the shot. The question was simply what is the best type of ammo to use if the situation warranted a shot. A .45 will kill a hog, under the right circumstances(size of hog, distance, etc.) Will it kill all hogs under all circumstances? No. Will a .300 Weatherby? 30-06? .270? etc.? Not under all circumstances. It depends on the situation. If you are sitting in your bow stand and a hog walks directly under you, you have a 2-3 yard shot at the base of the neck or head. Clean kill with a .45? I have seen it done with a 9mm. I don't consider that unethical.
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Old October 13, 2005, 10:25 PM   #28
Harley Quinn
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They are domestic pigs.

Or are they Javalinas??? Joven where are you at??? By gosh lets kill them critters. Invite Rich and have us a humdinger of a Texas BBQ.

I believe you are correct.
I have a plan, invite me and my shooters, we will rid the land of that scourge.

Harley
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Old October 13, 2005, 10:28 PM   #29
Art Eatman
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Rich, I know a lot about Bambi and Wily and a few other critters on account of listening and doing, but I haven't had anywhere near the breadth of experience you've had. Anyhow, I really doubt there is such a thing as a thin-skinned hog. Even a little old 35-pound javelina has a hide that's a lot tougher than a deer.

I just figured that at ten or fifteen yards, an eye isn't all that hard a shot on a standing-around critter. If it were, I'd take up a new line of work. (I grant that I'm sorta coasting on what I used to be able to do. ) But an eye at 15 yards is darned near like a small pie-plate at 100.

Look: Anybody who's gonna hunt with a pistol, here's a good practice deal. Draw a bunch of circles, using a nickel for the pattern. It's mathematically possible to shoot seven rounds of .45 and cut out the circle. At five yards it ain't easy, but you'll danged sure learn sight-picture and trigger control. Once you get to "Darned near did it!" you can work up to being pretty fast at just hitting the center. Then start backing away to the point of unreliability. "A fella's gotta know his limitations." Most folks hadn't oughta hunt with a pistol.

Somebody sez to me, "Art, let's go hog-huntin'," my first choice is my '06 and some 180-grain loads.

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Old October 13, 2005, 11:12 PM   #30
Harley Quinn
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Art I agree with you, lots of time you just are

Not able to get that close.

Joven stated the distance. I am a firm believer of not pushing the limitations myself.

Rich is probably talking some pretty good distances livin in the panhandle area. If I could walk up close enough to get a good shot (knowing my limitations and the guns) Heck let her rip as one said earlier.

I am not going to go charging in and having them run around and being frantic. But with what I have named in my get kit. I will do it any day of the week and twice on Sunday. Rid them critters I say.

Harley
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Old October 13, 2005, 11:48 PM   #31
Harley Quinn
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Hi...Lets do it...

I'll have to reconnoiter my old 45's, Heck I can hit the range tommorrow, hone in on one of um. I can bring my Barong (filipine bolo) Karasak and Sankil (spear).

You can PM me. Night.

Harley
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Old October 13, 2005, 11:51 PM   #32
Rich Lucibella
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Quote:
I can bring my Glock 17L 9mm 147 grain.
Harley-
You are So On....Let's Do it. You bring the 17L (or even one of them heavy's like a Mod 22 in 45 ACP); we'll prove this out right quick.

Understand, however, that in My Hunting World you use dogs to pin hogs, not for a 3 yard shot to the brain, but to climb on and take them with a knife as TFL Staffer Rob Pincus does.

We're talking about your responses to the original post by a non-hog hunter, Joven, who stated
Quote:
I am currently on a lease that is infested with hogs, at the landowners request, we are going to lessen the hog population. I can easily take shots within 25 yards, so I would like to shoot a couple with my .45. Do you think FMJ or HP ammo would be best?
He never spoke of dogs, feeders, salt licks or leashes. He spoke of HUNTING. We'll do our best to get you within sight of hogs that you can stalk to your prescribed 25 yards. We'll film it all from distance. Should make for great TFL stories and video for years to come. You need only prove your claim with 45 ACP or less.

How about next weekend? You make your way by air to DFW (or by auto to Paducah, further directions to follow), and I'll handle your transport, food and lodging from there. Arrive on Friday, Oct 21. Hunt Friday evening thru Sun evening. Plan a flight out of DFW on Monday the 24th after noon.

Date not good? I'm flexible. I simply wanna see this done.

In fact, I wanna see this done so bad for Joven's sake, I'll even relax the rules. Bring dogs, by all means. Your dogs....no handlers....that's for REAL dog trainers; also for cream puffs and cullers. If you're a REAL dog trainer, you get to best me with a shot from 6 feet.

Wanna make it REAL interesting? Put a gentlemanly wager down: your ability to kill a hog, with a 45 ACP or less, selected by you from a herd at distance (I'll even give you three tries). You name the wager.

We can call this the TFL True Hunter Search.
You in?
Rich
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Old October 14, 2005, 09:31 AM   #33
john in jax
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Rich it is Bow season here in NE FL and the Hogs aren't skittish yet. I'm not a Bow hunter, but have been scouting unarmed each of the last 3 weekends. On each trip into the woods we have managed to drive up or walk up to within 15-25 yards on small packs of pigs. It truly is unbelievable how un-afraid they are of either the vehicel or us at this early part of hunting season.

As mentioned above I'm scouting without a bow or a gun . . .nothing to take one down with, but when you can slip up to within 15yards of a 80lb boar, 2 pigs at about 60lb and a whole bunch of piglets, let me tell you I am certain I could have taken down that boar with my 1911 - - I was just so close!
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Old October 14, 2005, 09:56 AM   #34
Rich Lucibella
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John-
I agree that our Florida hogs run smaller and are less skittish than those in other states. I believe they have far more human contact than in some other places and they also seem to be less removed, generationally, from the domestic population. I've hunted ranches in central Florida where you could drive up to them at a feed trough.

But that's not what we're talking about here. We're talking about Hunting. And we're responding to someone who is, evidently, just starting out. Joven is not in the Florida Glades. He's in Texas. 80 lb mature boars in TX? That's a truly tiny piggy, no? There MIGHT be some, but I think you'll find 150 lbs is a more common starting weight.

As I've stated, I don't doubt that this can be done. I've seen it done with less than a 45 ACP and had no problem with it. I'm simply surprised to find we have so many here who do it regularly, without unnecessary wounding and carnage. So, I'm providing an opportunity for those here to back up their claims.....in the same environs that Joven has asked about.
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Old October 14, 2005, 10:09 AM   #35
Harley Quinn
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Joven answer up let me know what to do?

I either go to your location and give you some pointers or I will have to go and take Rich up on his offer. The thing is, I know I can dump them at the yardage you are talking about...

If Rich can get me as close then, Hey I am all for it, but to go out and hunt spooked pigs. Heck I can never get that close. That is why I threw in my 5.7mm. I can take them out at 100 yds with that cute little caliber. Right behind that hairy ear or in it, side angle, no problem.

I am pondering Rich's offer. I am confused though. Are you in Flordia or Texas Rich?
I checked Map quest it is a 1600 mile one way to the location you are talking about. That is a 2 day trip. Then I need to scout the area and see what the terrain is like. I have no clue.

I think you are under the wrong impression I do not do dogs that was a friend of mine several years ago. I do Bow have in the past not recently, got a couple of them hanging in the closet. I am just an excellent shot and fearless. So that combination make's me either stupid or
what??? While we are at it let's take a few of those Armidillos. Pig and Armadillo meat make a nice tasting Chilli.
I have mentioned many times (seen to many John Wayne movies) LOL

HarleyAbout location????

Last edited by Harley Quinn; October 14, 2005 at 10:41 AM.
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Old October 14, 2005, 10:42 AM   #36
Rich Lucibella
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Harley-
Once again, I'm in Florida. The Hunting Lease is in the Texas Panhandle. Paducah. See attached Sat Image. Ground ranges from river to swamp to hilly.

Quote:
If Rich can get me as close then, Hey I am all for it, but to go out and hunt spooked pigs. Heck I can never get that close.
We'll get you on hogs, most likely. But I won't hold your hand and walk you up to 'em. You're the hunter, Harley. I'm just the camera crew.
Quote:
I can take them out at 100 yds with that cute little caliber. Right behind that hairy ear or in it, side angle, no problem.
Good deal, bring the 5.7 MM and we'll also video you placing three rounds, offhand into a 2 square inch target at 100 yards....that's the distance from earhole to behind the ear. Hogs don't generally stand downrange of bench rests and the terrain doesn't lend itself to prone shoots. You can go to a kneel, if you'd prefer; snake population is dissipating at this time, though TFL'er H&H,Hunter lost a fabulous hunting dog to a 5' Western Diamondback up there about 10 days ago.

So, what do you say?
Rich
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Old October 14, 2005, 10:54 AM   #37
Harley Quinn
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Hi Rich, lighten up on the insults.

I don't need anyone holding my hand or worring about my shooting.

I have shot more bullets than I have brain cells at this time of my life (anyway, just to be seriously talking and planning this is truly remarkable).

Lets hear what Joven has to say about my deal.

I figure you will have a strawman (staff) stand in and that is fine, but I am thinking about it. I have things to do, I will get back to you.

Harley
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Old October 14, 2005, 11:04 AM   #38
Joven
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Harley,
Your welcome to come to my place, but the guest fee is $150 per day plus $100 per animal. (Landowners rules, not mine). Rich is willing to give you an all expense paid trip. That's sounds like a pretty good deal.
Somebody should take him up on this.
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Old October 14, 2005, 11:04 AM   #39
Rich Lucibella
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Quote:
I figure you will have a strawman (staff) stand in and that is fine
No StrawMan and I honestly didn't mean to insult. If you took it that way, I apologize. It's just that you claim to be a regular handgun hunter and then mention that you'd expect me to get you close enough to do your stuff. Not my deal; not my job.

I will be there personally as cook and camera man. Will also invite Art Eatman and/or Johnny Guest along as witnesses. We'll report it fairly and honestly right here.

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Old October 14, 2005, 11:47 AM   #40
Art Eatman
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I'm in Georgia for the moment, but I'm gonna be westbound for Texas on the 23rd or 24th. If the timing works, it would be easy enough to hook up.

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Old October 14, 2005, 12:39 PM   #41
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Rich, I have read and reread every post on this particular thread and liked every danged one of 'em. I have killed many hogs but they were during a cold spell and for eating, they were tame and stood still while being shot with a
.22 rimfire. I aimed slightly above right between the eyes where eyebrows would be if they had any.

What I really want to know is how all you hog hunters pronounce "hog"?
Down here we pronounce hog as hawg. I have giggled when I heard somebody call them "hahgs" or dogs "dahgs". Oh well, thats what happens when an old buzzard has a fifty word vocabulary and has never been out of the county..........Hang in there!
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Old October 14, 2005, 02:25 PM   #42
Harley Quinn
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OK, back and still confused.

I have read the post again and would like to see what you would like me to do.
I will be hunting, with this 3 or 4 man camera crew and I am going to get up to a herd of hogs, who are wild hogs??? OK if you say so.

It has gone from 25 yds or under and what kind of ammo do I use? Joven the newbe. Now Joven is saying it is hunting land and we have to pay the landlord. Does not sound like a newbe to me. He is/was just trying to get some input.

Now I said I would take you up on your post of shooting hogs/javalinas??
Within the range stated above with the hand gun I described. Then you want a wager, then you will give me three tries?

Tries, as in find them get up to a shooting range of 25 yards in an area that on other threads is several hundred yard shoots. Apparently this is wild hog range and not an area you can get to within 25 yds?
(Do I fail then? If I can't get to my above distance with the camera crew what then? Do I get to shoot the 5.7mm? I am wondering do I only get one bullet? Any backup in case this thing decides to chase the camera crew?? I am not concerned for me, I will be the shooter with the correct postition).

Then I tell you I can shoot the 5.7mm at 100yds, then you want me to prove it by shooting a target 100 yards away freehand/kneeling and 2" placement.

Now if you want me to go down to the local range, shoot some paper with my 9mm at 25 yds and show you my groups and also my groups with the 5.7mm verified by independent range master. Does that get me a start.

If I show up and blow up tomato cans at the same ranges with above mentioned firearms. Does that qualify me to shoot at these hogs?

Since things are changing in each post I think we need to set down what you said at the start. 25 yds. skillful shooter, shot placement etc..

Jovens first post was what we were going by. Am I correct? So anyone else want to throw in their two cents? I will jump through a few more hoops, then we can get serious??? Or not.

This little fun thing is going to run into some serious time and money. So!... I am game, but I really like it clear as to what you want me to do???

Or we could trap a hog put it at 25 yds and I will shoot it. It will die and that was the whole jest in the first place. Clean kill, unload one mag and reload?
LOL. Just need some direction at this time and place, anyone who feels compelled to make somemore hoops let me know first.

Here I am, on your board jumping through your set of hoops and I am not much more familier with this, then when it started.

Reminds me of a horse I traveled to see, took two days to get there, It was in a pasture/field and you could not get within 25yds near it, let alone catch this gentle 3 year old.
I did not take rope or a horse to catch this gentle 3 yr old (I already said that) or anything like that. It was a total bust...

I really would appreciate a fair run at this. If I say I will do it, you can count on it. But lets get it straight out of the chute? OK

Harley
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Old October 14, 2005, 02:54 PM   #43
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Where's Steve????

Hello, my money is on Steve Camp if he'd swing by and straighten this session out a bit!
He's posted several Texas deer taken with his 9mms btw, the challenge of Texas/Fla hogs is likely impossible for the majority of members here who don't hunt anyhow eh? Now handgun hunters like Steve or myself would say hmmmm...230s or 255s at a 1000fps to 1100fps and yer basic shot placement....dead hog!
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Old October 14, 2005, 03:53 PM   #44
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in response to texas hogs and the 45acp

sorry wasnt trying to say your hogs in texas was that small was thinking of peccary. In response to the 45acp being to small for bear i know that its not big enough for hunting them. i had it with me to dispatch one if it got one of the dogs down and was mauling it. i didnt have a lot of choice in having to shoot it as i said it turned to start down the tree. no one else was doing anything to stop it so i took the shots.If anyone has seen a wounded bear its ****** off and I didnt want a bunch of wounded dogs to help carry out of the woods.
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Old October 14, 2005, 07:51 PM   #45
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Ultima-
I don't doubt that Steve could do it. Don't doubt that you could. Would bet that Johnny Guest or Art Eatman can, though I doubt either has a mind to.

What got my interest was the number of people who responded about what an easy deal this is.

Harley-
Please don't be obstreperous. The rules of the challenge haven't changed since it was first made. You come on down to Paducah. I'll handle food and lodging. We will get you on hogs, from a distance or close up....we keep neither radio collars nor leashes on 'em. That's why it's called hunting.

You will hunt up to whatever range you wish and kill a hog with your 45 ACP or Glock 17L. The stalk is 90% of the skill required in this excersize. But you must already know that, as you already accepted the challenge and have performed such feats before.

I will video the stalk and the hunt. Simple deal for the experience you claim:
Quote:
The thing is, I know I can dump them at the yardage you are talking about...
Shooting cans is one thing; shooting paper another; shooting a living, ranging, rooting or running feral hog with a pistol of marginal caliber is something totally different.

If TFL stands for nothing else, it stands for personal responsibility. That means backing up your claims. I'm simply trying to make that as easy for you as possible. I guarantee you a GREAT hunt with me picking up all but the ammo and transport tab. What's to think about?
Rich
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Old October 14, 2005, 09:55 PM   #46
Harley Quinn
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Obstreperous...Hmm OK...Like that is the thinking now.

Your friends who are great shooters and hunters can do it.
But now you want me to do it.

OK...I have picked up the glove.
No Biggie... Lets play...No Guts no Glory... I have said it before and I will stand by it...
I don't think it is easy, I just know my limitations and this is not one of them...

So what is next?

Harley
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Old October 14, 2005, 10:14 PM   #47
Rich Lucibella
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Cool deal.

Can you get to Dallas by air or Paducah by car one week from today (Oct 21) in th AM? We'll hunt Friday afternoon and two sessions each on Saturday and Sunday.

Will you be shooting the Glock 17L or something different?
Rich
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Old October 14, 2005, 11:15 PM   #48
Harley Quinn
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I will be there. I will be in my Dodge Truck 2500...

Now as far as the shooter goes I will make that decision and show up with it.

Lets have a few of the watchers throw in their thoughts, I will digest them and make a decision.

We are talking the 45 or 9mm men and women...
Give me a few thoughts as to which round and why. I have both at my disposal the 17L or a 45 is fine. I well throw a 40 cal glock 22 mdl. into the conversation??
What is the gun will be my decision. At this time I am leaning towards my 17L 6"...

What are your thoughts??? I will let you know mine Monday.
As of this time and date I am going to be there Friday morning.
Pm me Rich and I will give you my cell # (Phone) not room...

Harley
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Old October 14, 2005, 11:21 PM   #49
CobrayCommando
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Peh...

When I see a video of you two ladies hunting hogzilla with a sharpened toothpick, then I will be impressed

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Old October 15, 2005, 07:47 AM   #50
Rich Lucibella
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Harley-
Details sent. Check your Yahoo mail (I don't do PM's).

All best-
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