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Old October 11, 2005, 10:39 PM   #1
pepe domingo
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Buyer Beware...Wild Bill's Concealment Leather

I hate to post this, but I would like to warn other consumers and help them avoid my pitfall.

I ordered a holster and belt combo from Wild Bill's back in May. I searched feedback and found mostly positive remarks, although many commented on the long wait time. His web site states a minimum of 8 weeks, so I did not expect my stuff in a hurry. I understand small shops and custom orders.

However, my card was charged for the full amount right away. I took no action with the card company at the time because I assumed that my leather was being shipped.

Anyway, when nothing came I began to try to contact Wild Bill. Like many small shops, e-mail is not a priority and it took me several tries to get a response. I was told to expect my order to be finished and shipped in July.

July came and went. Repeated e-mails were not returned. Finally a telephone message and e-mail was returned on August 8. Bill informed me of some leather industry problems that were causing delays, but that things were being sorted out and that my order was on the bench and would be shipped shortly.

August came and went. Repeated messages were not returned. Finally, a reply came on September 13. Bill repeated the leather industry supply problem, but said that the problem was solved and that I should expect my gear to ship in a week to ten days.

September has now come and gone. My e-mail and voice messages are not being returned. It has now been a month since Bill stated my gear should ship.

My beef is not with the wait time. I understood that I would have to wait, possibly a long time to get my holster. I have a problem with paying up front and in full and being told at least three times over the last four months that my order was close to completion and would be shipped shortly.

Now I am stuck. If I cancel I lose 25% restock fee. I have now requested he provide me with a firm ship date or cancel my order with no penalty. However, I have not gotten a response from 5 e-mails and one phone message over the last month.

BTW: This was not some super custom order. It was just an IWB for a Glock 33 and a belt.

Can anybody help?

Pepe
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Old October 12, 2005, 12:32 AM   #2
leadcounsel
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Cancel the order

Talk to credit card company about fraud protection. They'll use their weight and investigation to sort it out or at least give you a refund.

You'll likely eat some of the money, but it's a cheap lesson in life.

Good luck.
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Old October 12, 2005, 01:46 AM   #3
jonathon
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I wonder what "Supply" issues he's talking about.. wreaks of BS to me, mainly since leather cost hasn't changed much(nor has the supply) at all this year, other than slight cost increases due to fuel increases, but nothing terrible.

I know this because we order various types of leather for different repair work quite often.
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Old January 1, 2006, 12:44 AM   #4
tvick66
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Deja Vu!!

Wow Pepe,
I had to reread your post to make sure I didn't write it in my sleep. Same thing with me, I ordered a Custom CZ holster, belt, and mag clip in May, credit card was charged on May 15th and I did not get any type of confirmation so I called and was told that it should be ready in eight weeks. Like you, I don't care about the wait, just give me an accurate ETA. After 2 more calls and 19 weeks I got my order in October, about the time you posted this. Did you ever get your order?

As far as the supply shortage goes, I checked the website in July or August and saw where they were building up an inventory of holsters so that they could ship immediately, that is probably what caused our delays. They already had our money.
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Old January 24, 2006, 06:19 PM   #5
geneinnc
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this clown hozed me on a holster. claimed he took it out of his "gun show stock". Never got it, same old BS, we messed up, were a small shop, get you one next time we set up on that style.

Guess what amigos, a friend told me this crook is working C&E gun shows in Charlotte, NC. should be fun when I take the holster of my choice out of his "gun show" stock.

Anyone care to join me?
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Old January 24, 2006, 06:45 PM   #6
geneinnc
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here you go people. my email to "WildBill"

Guess what? Your crooked butt has been busted! I am forwarding this to C&E, GrassRootsNC,& Foothills Gun Club also. If that doesn't get your attention I'll be happy to post a mapquest link to your front door for those you screwed over. Foothills is an IDPA affilate. I'm sure IDPA WOULD LOVE TO SEE THIS.

Read this link, and see what your dealings has got you:
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...47#post1841347

As you can see I'm not the only one you screwed over. It's been close to 2 years youve been jacking me around. Oh well, $79 I'll never see.


This message will be passed on to M1911-org. S&W Forum, Colt Forum, Glock Talk, AR15.com, AK47 gun net,SASS, and any other forum I can find.
You see, us buyers now have a place to post weasels like you. You brought this upon yourself. Enjoy.

For all you guys tha have an issue with this crook:

(919)779-9582 email@wildbillsconcealment.com
PO Box 1941
Garner, NC 27529-1941
(919) 779-9582
http://triangle.citysearch.com/map?=...tate=&map_zip=

Gene Cowan
PO Box 10261
Hickory, NC 28603
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Old January 24, 2006, 10:48 PM   #7
no2guncntrl
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Well heck, don't stop there. The Gov is interested in fraud too...
http://www.ifccfbi.gov/index.asp
http://www.usps.com/postalinspectors/
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Old January 25, 2006, 12:04 PM   #8
geneinnc
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SOS different day

Does this generic answer look familiar?

Gene,

The Firing Line is not the only place that "Pepe" posted. Please note that the date of his post is 10-11-05, and his problem has been resolved. I responded to his post on The High Road, I am not going to do that again, however, since you seem to have a legitimate issue, I have forwarded you a copy of my response. Again, if you will provide an order number or date of order I will research it and issue a refund if the order has, in fact, never been sent. Thank you,

Bill

My reply:Forget it, I went through one year of giving you my info. You screwed me from day one. You claimed to have picked me a r hand 1911 black paddle holster from "gun show stock", and some guy I talked to 3 times said you never told him a thing about it,and no one around there ever knew what was going on from one day to the next, but would get me the holster with your "next run" story. Again i never got i it. Next contact was "I will credit your card back. But that takes a while, as we only do that once a month or so". HUH?It still has never been done. This went on & on for another year. I probably have as much time in long distance calls as the holster is worth.

Seeing that you pulled the exact same thing on another customer in the same time period refreshed my memory.

I already heard from Paul Valone from GRNC. His suggestion is to let Steve know of the people you screwed over. Steve is known for bouncing your kind from his shows.

I was stupid enough to take you and your people at your word. I am NOT going through the hastle of having my Credit Card company go looking for that invoice. It did no good for close to 2 years. Why should it change now? The only dates I remember was I oredered it well before my November 2nd Birthday. It was to be a present from my wife. Thr first order was placed arounder September. Probably 2004.

Like I said, I wrote it off as a loss long ago.
I would much rather spread the word on your business practices.
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Old January 25, 2006, 12:19 PM   #9
geneinnc
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My memory has been jogged.

After you screwed up my birthday order, I bought a Galco and called your office guy and told him to forget the holster on your "next time we set up on that syle" promise. CANCEL THE ORDER. That was the first promise of a Credit Card refund.

I was wrong, I DID get my holster from you!. FOURTEEN MONTHS after I ordered it, and cancealed the order because you did not have the holster I ordered. Your really on top of things huh Bill?

So here we go again, yet another long distance call. Your guy told me to return the holster for a full refund! Seems like we have been down this road once before huh Bill?

SOOOOOOOO, I get to pay postage to return a CANCELED holster order, that took FOURTEEN MONTHS to fill.

I guess it's time for generic excuse number 2: "we only have a 3 man crew"

Maybe you should hire some help or shut the doors?

Still waiting on that refund pal.

Maybe I should hold my breatrh.
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Old January 25, 2006, 02:00 PM   #10
mtnbkr
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Did you use a credit card? If so, have them reverse the charges. They'll do it quickly and with minimal fuss.

edit: I just noticed you got your holster. Still, send it back at the cheapest rate you can use (parcel post normally) and call your CC company.

Chris
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Old January 25, 2006, 03:18 PM   #11
geneinnc
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Now he's claims he will refund my money. But he has no record of my purchase. Funny, I wonder how it got here after 14 months? I just sent him the full name and address on the Card. And the phone number I had when I made the purchase.

I should have kept the holster with the track record of this crew. Like I said, I gave it up as a lost cause. I just don't want anyone else to get burned.
It's not as eazy as calling up my CC company. I change the numbers at least yearly.

I'll let you know how this round plays out.
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Old January 25, 2006, 03:27 PM   #12
geneinnc
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"Gene,

Check for $79.00 will be cut for you and sent out tomorrow. Looked for order Aug 04-Oct 04 under last name "Cowan" and could not find it. Don't have any record of a return, but I would not expect to after this amount of time. Please advise me when you receive the check. Thanks,

Bill"


I will keep you posted folks.
Gene
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Old January 27, 2006, 01:52 AM   #13
BigFunWMU
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Thanks for the heads up. I'll make sure I put him on my "Don't use" list.
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Old February 1, 2006, 11:33 AM   #14
geneinnc
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Refund

"Gene,

I noticed that my on-line banking has shown that you cashed your refund check--are you planning on letting everyone know that you received it? Just curious....

Bill"

Of course I am letting everyone know I got my refund. I admit I never thought I would see it. Thank you for finally taking care of the problem. As for the other forum members, the entire saga for me is closed, and you can decide if you want to do business with Bill or not.
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Old February 28, 2006, 07:54 PM   #15
snowtiger308
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what a load

I hope that the posting of this saga will do what you intended to do. I will not take the time to read this post and not take heed of the warning. he if I read it properly only paid you back AFTER you posted the problem and gave him neg postings. not who I would do bis with.
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Old June 30, 2006, 11:34 PM   #16
bamagunner
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any progress with wild bill's?

i am looking for a holster and wondering if this guy has cleaned up his act (or should i avoid him altogether?)
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Old October 1, 2007, 09:36 AM   #17
Torontogunguy
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Well, count me in. I don't know what to say.
I place my order Sept 5, 2007 and received an immediate callback as my credit card information was wrong; I gave Bill my correct information and was told the goods were "in stock and would ship immediately".

I sent an email on September 15 which was responded to immediately "your goods will be shipped this week" (i.e. week of Sept 15, 2007).

All further phone calls and emails were not responded to at all. I called this morning (October 1, 2007) and was advised that the order has already been shipped but instead of shipping to our U.S. address it has shipped to our Canadian address. We can only hope and pray that it was not sent by UPS as if that is the case we will get hit with HUGE handling fees for bringing it across the border. If shipped by mail, it takes less time and the postal service here in Canada only charges a flat $5 for clearing customs. That's why we pick our stuff up from stateside and hand carry it back across the border. If they want a few dollars for taxes that's fine by me... at least they don't hit me with $30, $40 or $50 in handling fees on top of the shipping costs. We shall see. He did not say how it had been shipped only that it was already on the way. I should have, in hindsight, asked for a tracking number.

I called back and was told that they would not let him put a tracking number on it only delivery confirmation.

So, here I am. Almost a month down the road and still waiting, but it is alright so far. Not too bad a wait, although my orders from Andean, CDNN and others have already arrived (that were place subsequent to Wild Bill's). The proof will be in the pudding ... I am anxious to see what the quality of the product is. And I will report back here.. promise.

So. For now. Wild Bill's Concealment is in my good books. The reason they could not answer email is that they were doing a circuit of shows. I can live with that.

Especially considering delivery of some manufacturer's is running up to TWO YEARS, stated in advance. I just paid a $75 premium to get my hands on a Versa Max II for my HK P7M8 and it was worth it. It is the best holster I have found so far... but I really want something more compact for IWB, like the Summer Special or Royal Guard.

I think that's some of the stuff I ordered from Bill. Maybe he's given me some preferential treatment cuz my holster order was $350 or so and promises of more to come for others of our gun collection. I don't know.

I will give them the benefit of the doubt until they prove me wrong otherwise. I have yet to be 'hit' by anyone ANYONE in the gun business. They are all so exceptional! Outstanding! Andean, CDNN, and I must not forget Gunners Alley. All outstanding firms to deal with.

Wild Bill's communication is a bit behind the times.. it could be vastly improved and automated with a computer and some simple software for entering and tracking orders and it would improve his reputation considerably. But, so far, so good. I am looking for my parcel like a lost puppy dog here. I love getting parcels. And his story was so good and so complete I find it hard to believe that he could 'make up' a story like the one he gave me... i.e. 'spoke to Kim in shipping and the order has already gone out but it went to your Canadian address', etc. etc.


My fingers are crossed. There is nothing in the world that I would like better than to post a positive experience with Wild Bill's Concealment. They seem like such nice people. And you can be sure that I will report back here one way or the other guys. Either a warning to beware posted on every bulletin board, forum and website that I belong to, including my own website (front page so it appears on all the web search tools). Or a compliment of the highest order with comment on communication. Not so bad to deal with.
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Old October 1, 2007, 10:05 AM   #18
Eghad
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delivery confirmation has a tracking number for the USPS web site
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Old October 12, 2007, 11:34 AM   #19
Torontogunguy
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Re; Wild Bill's Concealment UPDATE

Nothing arrived after I was told it was being shipped. So I called two weeks or so ago. I was told it was shipped but that it was shipped to my Canadian address by mistake and it would take a little longer (it is actually just as fast by Priority Mail... and all of my orders placed both prior to and subsequent to my order with Wild Bill's have all arrived in good order).

So I called today, Friday October 12, five weeks after being told my goods were in stock and would be shipped that day (Sept 5/07). And I was told that my shipment did NOT in fact get shipped. They mixed me up with another customer. They were embarrassed and they would ship Monday by Priority Post USPS. I was told that the holsters were finished and being died... they were going to just have to wait for the die to dry and then they would ship the order. Monday for sure. (Oct 15/07) and they would call me with a delivery or tracking confirmation number. I am not sure why the holsters were being finished and died when I was already told some weeks ago that they were in stock.

So far, it has been five weeks of me calling them as opposed to them calling me. Hey, I understand that people make mistakes. We all do.


The latest promise is that the holsters will be died and dried for Monday and will be shipped out and should arrive by Wednesday. The latest promise is that I will be advised of the tracking number when it ships on Monday. I will report back my friends.

And I expect that by the end of the week I will be reporting good news or bad news. I can only hope that it is the former... I would like to see happy customers and a good report being posted.

Comments?
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Old October 16, 2007, 02:20 PM   #20
CourtCop
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If he shipped UPS then it should automatically have a tracking number. If it shipped USPS you get delivery confirmation only.
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Old October 24, 2007, 11:32 AM   #21
lawrnk
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I can't believe after all the probs people are having that you still ordered from and seem to be getting screwed?
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Old November 1, 2007, 08:41 AM   #22
ACPman
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"About Wild Bill"

Interesting that my first post on this site would be on this subject. It's hard to believe that Bill is still up to his same old standard of doing business.

After reading a number of glowing reports@ his carry leather, I called & placed an order. Much of what I went through was exactly what everyone else in this thread exerienced.

What really got to me was how so many gun writers extolled his virtues & "quality of product" compared to the real quality of what I ordered, when after much aggrivation, it FINALLY got to me.

The quality & workmanship just wasn't that great either. At least not for what I paid & the time I had to wait, not to mention all the general s@#%* I went through to get it.

All this brings us to wonder who profits from the "glowing praises' of some of our recognized gun gun writers........
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Old November 1, 2007, 05:41 PM   #23
mstuhr
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BBB & States Atty.'s office

Hi All,
I dont know if it would help but a similar problem I had with another co. was resolved after filling out papers with the BBB and State atty.'s office.

It was less than a month that I filed that I was refunded my money and I was like the rest of you who felt screwed and helpless.
wont hurt.
Something else. Instead of filing all the complaints on one form I made individual ones of each complaint. Fraud, false advertising etc. Each one is a count against the dealer.
Hopethis helps
Mike
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Old November 1, 2007, 06:52 PM   #24
G23/40
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I've had a few dealings at the gun shows with WB.
However at the last few shows someone else has been selling his gear at their table...Not WBs table but another vendors table.
I thought they had been bought out or something.
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Old February 14, 2009, 11:44 AM   #25
Captainjack
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He got me too!

Wish I would have done some research on this guy before I ordered. Has been nine weeks since my order was placed and despite numberus attempts to reach him via email and phone, I have only been able to get one response. "It will ship next week". Two weeks since that and still no holster. I can't belive that this has happened to so many people, for so long and nothings been done about it.
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