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Old October 10, 2005, 09:56 PM   #26
chrisandclauida2
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yes that sound makes grown men cower. i have been in a couple riots where the sound og a shot gun racking put 700 men on the ground. this said i woulnt run around with an empty shotgun.
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Old October 11, 2005, 06:01 AM   #27
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I gather from the general theme of this thread that a single or double barrelled shotgun is out of the running, as probably is an automatic.

It may have been covered in other threads no doubt, but I sometimes wonder if there is really any intimidation threat at all for some people who are having a gun aimed at them, other than a shotgun, perhaps. I am talking about a homeowner armed with a handgun confronting, well, anyone. Assuming the other person is a person with a little street experience, it might be that he is not at all intimidated by the sight of a gun pointed at him and he just might decide to take his chances with a homeowner who has had absolutely no such experiences behind him. Naturally a lot of other things enter into the situation and anyway, such situations are relatively uncommon. But in a confrontation between two people of different experiences, one being a little harder and rougher than the other and more than likely has been in more than a couple of fights, the whole point of the homeowner having a gun is to even up the match and tilt it a little in his way, if that is possible. The question is, does it?
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Old October 11, 2005, 06:07 AM   #28
Derius_T
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Dave in Delaware Wrote:

Quote:
And there you are: you rack your (unloaded) shotgun with the hopes of it scaring them, and all they do is pull a firearm on you instead. Now you're unarmed, gave away your position, and just ****** off an already ******-off someone who broke into your house. They shoot you dead, STILL take your stuff, AND they beat your head in w/ the butt of your unloaded shotgun, just to make a point.
I think you answered your own question bud.

And my only question is, why is it unloaded to begin with? Might as well be a huge, unwieldy club....
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Old October 11, 2005, 07:41 AM   #29
sm
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Grant Money!

Humm...

I knew I kept notes for a reason.

Semi-Autos: Teaching new shotgunners , often with a 1100 20 ga or Beretta A303 also in 20 ga- back in the day. First time the student hits the bolt release Whoa!many times followed by a expletive.

My SX1 being machined has a "distinct" closing. You get to a point if you shoot enough, or spend enough time on a range to be able to tell what semi-auto is shooting without looking, by the sound of bolt release.

I knew this being a Range Rat would pay off some day.

Lets see, following the Gimmee Greedy Gov't Guidlines:
Grants for:

-Closing Sounds Differentations b/t Pump,Semi, O/U, SxS ( spl catagory for
hammers on SXS) and Single Shots.
-Might as well do a sub study on Gauges...oh, oh, we cannot forget the 32 and 24 ga [ more money]
-Barometric Pressures and affect on Sound [ Sounds right smart don't it?]
-Synthetic vs Wood for sound suppression based on stock densities.
-Single Shots - Special study on their sounds A) open/ close , B)Hammer being pulled back, C) Ejectors ejecting.
-K80s getting a scratch
-Battery Operated Drills running cleaning rods with Scotchbrite to clean bores.
-Favorite expletives when nylon hammer misses tubes and thumbs hit.
-Identifying slugs from various guns based on Report
-Favorite expletives for 1) getting pinched on closing break open guns, 2)slicing finger on inside of 1100, 3)thumbs/ fingers caught in bolt closing. [NOT the same as Garand Thumb - that can be another grant...see how this works?] 4) Loading mag tubes.

Etc.

I have surmised this is going to take a LOT of time, and therefore requires a Really Big Grant. Gonna needs LOTs of Guns, Ammo, Range Time, and "variables" - how many many members on TFL now? [variables = members X ....whew doggie! Nawlins ain't got nothing on me.
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Old October 11, 2005, 07:48 AM   #30
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In my experience the sound of a pump racking a round into the chamber is an attention getter. Thus far all the thugs that I've drawn down on with my 870 have gotten very peaceful upon hearing the distinctive "slack-slack". I don't know if the next suspect will be brought into compliance so easily, each situation is unique. Having been on the receiving end of a suspect chambering a round on me (at 0430 in the morning) it got my attention but didn't cause either me or my partner to faint. You can put me down as one who generally believes in the intimidation value but backs that up with the willingness to use the 00 buck that is now in the chamber.
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Old October 11, 2005, 08:22 AM   #31
625
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The only sound I would make is moving the safety to the fire position.
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Old October 11, 2005, 09:05 AM   #32
Glenn E. Meyer
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The core issue is not whether the sound scares someone, only if you make a deliberate show of it to intimidate an opponent.

If I were armed and facing you and your shotgun, I would shoot you while you are futzing around with it. In your house, assuming I'm not the 'all burglars are cowards' type, if I hear a big rack, I might leave or for the tactical advantage, I would fire a series of shots at the location of the rack. That might scare you.

So, is it a show? For the LEO, facing a dude, who probably doesn't have a gun out, is misbehaving in a nonlethal threat manner - sure rack away for the Clint Eastwoodiness of it.

As I said before, when you pick up the gun, you rack it and you should be behind cover if you are able. If it is heard then and has a positive effect - goody.

Otherwise, if I want sound effects - I'll play the 1812 Overture with cannons.
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Old October 11, 2005, 10:54 AM   #33
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As Denny said earlier, it will likely scare REASONABLE individuals (and -- whether I am "reasonableā€ or not -- it would certainly give me pause).

When I was a very junior officer standing the OOD watch on an isolated, austere Aleutian island, I had a drunk Chief briefly point a loaded 12 gauge shotgun at me during domestic dispute (there was no 24/7 law enforcement -- the duty officer was the first responder). With assurance, I can tell you that was a VERY long twenty seconds until he decided that was a major error. A 12-gauge shotgun at close range should deter anyone with even minimum brains.
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Old October 11, 2005, 11:23 AM   #34
Mike Irwin
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As I told someone years ago...

If your only plan is to rack your shotgun slide and hope that the person runs off, you need another plan.
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Old October 11, 2005, 12:34 PM   #35
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Quote:
If your only plan is to rack your shotgun slide and hope that the person runs off, you need another plan.
Um...pull the trigger as the next step

WildthatwillgettheirattentionAlaska
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Old October 11, 2005, 12:49 PM   #36
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I was walking up a stairwell with 3 other MP's to check on a domestic violence call. As we approached the apartment door we heard a shot gun slide rack. We all scattered, ducked, crawled, dove, jumped to what ever cover and concealment we could find and broke leather. As it turns out, the lady of the house threw some Mac & Cheese at her husband, and the sound we heard was the wringer on a mop bucket.
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Old October 11, 2005, 01:34 PM   #37
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Dave in Delaware-

I was told a long time ago to never use a weapon as a threat- Be prepared to use it or don't have it at all. An empty weapon, even to the most ignorant, is useless. When it is time for combat, it's "Weapons Free" (round chambered and safety off). I'd sure hate to go down with an unloaded weapon or a bent trigger (because the safety was on).
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Old October 11, 2005, 03:05 PM   #38
Mike Irwin
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"Um...pull the trigger as the next step"

You'd think so, wouldn't you...

However, this individual didn't even keep any shotgun ammo in the house.

He was depending on the sound to do the job for him.

I never quite got it through to him that that might not be much of a deterrent. He was quite wedded to the belief that an intruder would hear that sound and run like a frightened rabbit.
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Old October 11, 2005, 07:59 PM   #39
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We had just moved here from Seattle, a few days before Christmas, didn't have the money for a stay in the motel so we started apartment hunting right away. We were quite suprized to find almost all the apartments in the area were way out of our cost range, so we ended up moving to the "darkside" of town, im talking neighborhoods with razor wire and iron screen doors.

One night we wake up to someone messing with the doorhandle to the apartment, I reach over grab the shotgun, sneak up and look through the peephole in the door and see 2 guys trying to pick or unlock the door. I, in my best command voice..came out sounding something like Betty Boop...asked them what they wanted? They stepped back and started cussing asking *** did I want and kept trying to enter.

I did the ol'rack of the 12g pump right by the door, they did the ol keep picking the lock till we get it open...I went back to the kitchen area, a breakfast bar seperated the kitchen from the front room and called 911...told the operator of the situation and told her that I had informed them I was armed but they kept trying to enter. I stated, knowing that the 911 call waqs being taped, that if my front door comes open Im going to blast them out the door, because as far as I knew anyone who keeps trying to enter knowing the occupant is armed, is more than likely armed themselves? Right?

After a few minutes, sirens start blaring from all directions these guys leave and start walking down the sidewalk. The cops pull up and to my suprise, these guys start fighting with the cops! Finally they are restrained and taken away. The cop comes up to my door, all dissheveled, dirty and asks what happened, I told him they were just trying to mess with the lock...he asks if the kicked the door shouldered it, or anything else...guess he was trying to pile up charges as a payback for the fight...lol

But your right, the racking of a shotgun doesnt work everytime, certainly didnt in this case!

Bob
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Old October 12, 2005, 08:45 AM   #40
Derius_T
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Just a quick thought.

Glenn wrote:

Quote:
Otherwise, if I want sound effects - I'll play the 1812 Overture with cannons.
Uhhmm.....can I have a copy of THAT mp3?
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Old October 12, 2005, 11:02 AM   #41
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Sound effects

Once, in the far,far distant past, I was in a mess hall at Camp Lejune when the prisoners were brought in to a segregated area of the mess hall by prison chasers. This was an every meal occurance. Must have been four or five hundred in there eating at the time. One of the prisoners broke and bolted for the door (no idea where he thought he was going). A chaser stepped into the isle and racked that high brass 12 gauge through that Winchester. Suddenly you could hear a pin drop and all of the tables in that mess hall were empty & every one was on the deck, including the runner who was shaking like a dog trying to pass a razor blade. That sound carries over just about any sound.

Having said that, I subscribe to the theory that guns, like knives, should come as a suprise to the reciever....
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Old October 12, 2005, 12:27 PM   #42
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Quote:
Otherwise, if I want sound effects - I'll play the 1812 Overture with cannons.


Uhhmm.....can I have a copy of THAT mp3?
Get it on a Telarc CD. They recorded it where real cannons were used, digitally, at it's REAL volume! Careful though! (Warning is included with CD). I loaned mine to a friend, who blew the 14" woofers in his Advent tower speakers .
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Old October 14, 2005, 09:19 AM   #43
TimRB
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"4) any serious bg has you made for a dufus, a newbie, or a John Wayne wannabe."

I would not want to face any of those guys, especially if he was holding a loaded shotgun.

Tim
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Old October 14, 2005, 08:54 PM   #44
Dwight55
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Yeah, Tim, . . . you are right, . . . but just take it one more step. The guy breaking into an inhabited dwelling ain't right, . . . his elevator missed a few floors. If he's caught, . . . it's Sing Sing time.

Chances are the bg is either a pro who came looking for thousands of dollars of jewels (in my house he got the wrong address), . . . and he'll slip out when he hears the 870.

Or he is part of the other 99 percent that are split between crack heads, meth heads, just plain drunks, and other invertebrate knuckledraggers who either don't know what the sound is, . . . or won't let it bother them.

Anyone foolish enough to do that, . . . deserves the beating the bg gives em.

May God bless,
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Old October 14, 2005, 09:45 PM   #45
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What if they don't know what the sound of a Shotgun being racked sounds like?

Or they are tweakers who really don't hear, or care, about the racking of a shotgun. They are fixated on where they are going to get money/goods for their next fix because they are coming down.

No, I wouldn't just relay on the sound of the shotgun being chambered to scare the BG's/druggies away.

I mean, I guess that one could make that a part of their plan, hope that the sound causes the BG/druggie to run away and all is well but you have to have follow up plans, cause sometimes plan A just doesn't work.

Plan B, if you chose that as plan A should be the pulling of the trigger and then the sound of another shell being racked into the chamber. Plan C consists of repeating Plan B until Plan D can take affect, the calling of the lawyer.

Gangs are another problem in itself. Gang members believe that being shot, and then killing the shooter makes them better leaders, and it does give them a higher position in the ranks. And being shot and killed, makes them some sort of god that the other gang members then believe that they have to settle the matter, whether the person was just protecting themselves or not (law abiding), you killed their god (or if a low end, a brother/sister).

Believe it or not, even the bums around here have a "society" of brother/sisterhood going. I've found that I am on a "list" of the bum community because of how I dissed "one legged willy". It's also known by them that I am "protected" (long story, I've one foot in the "dark society" and one foot out. Thanks to my neighbor that died but he left word with his Brothers and he asked that my Uncle and I to be "protected". I will admit, this is strange to be able to view both sides of the fence).

Get a bum tweaked up enough, there is no telling how far they will go. Same with some of the Brotherhood that my neighbor belonged to. The sound of a shotgun will not even phaze them, unless it's the BOOM instead of the racking sound.

Wayne
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Old October 17, 2005, 11:31 AM   #46
Derius_T
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I'll just say RACK AWAY!

and hope your loved ones are staying the night at grandma's house, and your life insurance is paid up....
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Old October 17, 2005, 11:32 AM   #47
Derius_T
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Capt. Carlie wrote:

Quote:
Get it on a Telarc CD. They recorded it where real cannons were used, digitally, at it's REAL volume!
Any leads on where I could find one? Google told me nothing.....
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Old October 17, 2005, 11:41 AM   #48
ted murphy
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I wouldn't count on the sound of a pump shotgun doing squat to a bad guy's Morale any more than i think shining a surefire into a BG's face will do much but make him madder.

If it does accomplish something, that's great- but i don't plan for it or count on it.

I do keep my shotgun cruiser ready but it is for reasons other than wanting to be cool while stoking it.

Ted
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Old October 17, 2005, 05:36 PM   #49
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It is sort of interesting to compare similar concepts and problems. A lot of people think laser sights, are so bad, like tracers and flashlights, because they give away one's position, but some think that racking a shotgun in the middle of the night so that you notify your home intruder that you are present, general location determined by the sound made, and that you are armed is a good idea.

I think they all have their place, but I would count on none to convince the bad guys to leave. Of course, tracers may help to convince the bad guys to leave, but at that point, you have opened fire.
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Old October 17, 2005, 05:48 PM   #50
Charles S
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Quote:
I just let the snick of the safety going off to terrify them :-) My 870 has one up the spout at all times.
I am not the police. If you are in my house I am not going to try to deter you, nor am I going to try to frighten you. I am going to stop you where you stand. The only warning you will have will be the light on the for end illuminating you to confirm you are a threat and a target, make to sure my background is clear, and then the snick of the safety going off. If you choose to stop immediately then I will let you. If you do not I will stop you.

Charles
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