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Old October 5, 2005, 12:22 AM   #1
USP45usp
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Okay, a real life scenerio

What would you do?

You are now old(er). You decided to better yourself with work and take some classes that are directly linked to some of your duties, namely, the work web page.

Your fellow co-worker, who had a degree in web design, used to maintain it but, she left.

Now, you have to work everyday and the classes offered for the web design software that you use, is afterwork, at night.

In downtown.

It's getting dark around 6:30 now. Classes let out at 9pm. Parking is VERY limited and you have to walk to the parking garage, which is highly lighted (+1) but you have to go inbetween buildings to get to it and then climb stairs, to whatever level you are parked.

The college states "No Firearms Allowed".

The State says that only they can dictate firearm laws and there is no law that allows the college to keep the guns out. In fact, they can't do so.

There were women in my class that were from 20 to 50, and men in their upper 50's as well.

What do you do? Respect their rights and take your chances or carry concealed? (even through they can't and they can't kick you out) And no, LCC is the only college that has these type of classes, it's not like you can just "go somewhere else".

And now, a touch of Irony.

They offer handgun safety classes with live fire (not on campus, at the local PD range).

Wayne
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Old October 5, 2005, 03:22 AM   #2
CyberSEAL
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Carry concealed everywhere. If you are doing it right, no one will ever know.
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Old October 5, 2005, 05:35 AM   #3
skidmark
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This is not the best answer.

But it might drive home your point.

Most colleges have some sort of "escort service" thru the campus police department. Find out how long the average response time is, then call ahead and get escorted from the parking garage to the classroom. Call ahead and get escorted from the classroom to the parking garage. (Do not agree to meet the escort outside - you fear attack/harm in the hallways as much as on the street, right?)

If there is not a campus escort program, insist on having one started. Since the college has taken away your right to protect yourself, they must provide that service to you. Get the school to release its crime stats - now required by law to be made available. Use the stats to your advantage.

Organize the rest of the class to use the escort service. You may have to settle for a group walk, but the devil in me would really like to see each person escorted individually.

I know this is below the belt, but remember that if you are over 40 years old you are a protected minority. Since higher education loves protected minorities, use it to your advantage.

stay safe.

skidmark
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Old October 5, 2005, 06:25 AM   #4
stang46gt
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It's true that only the government, federal, state, local, can set laws, however, schools and companies that we work in can say what is allowed on their property and what is not. They have the right to say "no firearms allowed on school property" and those that do not abide by that can be removed for trespassing. Just like a store or a club can post a sign stating no firearms allowed. Those that violate that can be removed. It's the school's, store's, club's and everones elses right to say what is and is not allowed on their property.

That being said, if I felt I was in danger I would carry. Most of us carry daily now and no one knows......what's the difference. I do not carry on at work because my company states no firearms and the fact that I feel safe there. If I did not feel safe my choices would be:
1) violate the rule and chance getting fired,
2) do nothing and feel unsafe,
3) have security walk me to my car nightly ( fat chance I would do this),
4) leave the company
5) carry

I would choose option 5.
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Old October 5, 2005, 07:25 AM   #5
PythonGuy
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I've taken many classes at night, just walk with the people in your group to the parking area, some of them must use it too. I walked alone on campuses at night and it was pretty dark, there is no carry in NY and I never thought twice about it. Try surviving with the senses god gave you and avoid what looks like trouble. You're in more danger carrying when its against the rules and getting caught, then from any threat you are worried about. Why does gun and paranoid have to go hand in hand, you guys afraid to sleep in the dark too????
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Old October 5, 2005, 11:28 AM   #6
leadcounsel
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Ask yourself where your priorities are. Jobs and school are replacable, you are not.

1) If you're doing it right, no one will know you're carrying unless you are forced to defend yourself, in which case you won't care if you lose your job or are expelled;
2) If you fail to carry and are assaulted and unable to defend yourself adequately, who is harmed -- you, the job, or the school. They are institutations and will not take any responsiblity for your injuries, nor will they really care
3) The only places I don't carry are areas where I cannot by law carry and risk legal trouble. I carry everywhere else because places that don't allow guns, like schools, are ironically places where violent crime tends to happen. Go figure... maybe the BGs are smarter than the liberals give them credit for...
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Old October 5, 2005, 12:58 PM   #7
USP45usp
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To help clarify:

In Oregon, Schools MAY NOT have no gun polices. Not until/unless the legislature makes a law. So that is moot as to property rights compared to personal rights in this state. Especially with schools since they are a state institution.

This is the downtown center, not the main campus. The downtown center is in the middle of the good/bad part of town. It's a good side in the daylight, not at night.

Parking is a free for all. In order to park, you may have some students right in front, some in the provided parking lots (those tower ones, forget what they are called) which the nearest is only one block away but you have to go into an alley (either side) to get to it, and if that is full, you can be parked up to four or more blocks away. You can't do a "group walk" when everyone is going in all different directions.

For night classes, there are around 100+ people there. It would not be feasible to have an escort for each and every person. I also don't believe that a person's safety should be handed over to another anyway unless they are unable, or too young, to provide for themselves.

So, with this clarification, what would you do?

PG:
Quote:
You're in more danger carrying when its against the rules and getting caught, then from any threat you are worried about. Why does gun and paranoid have to go hand in hand, you guys afraid to sleep in the dark too????
Is "paranoid" the new DU term that is being used to describe those that are interested in self-reliance and protection? I haven't been over there for a while so I am out of the loop.

Also, where do the DU members get those crystal balls that are allowing them to know when and where they are going to need to protect themselves? Is there a sale just for libs or what?

Wayne
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Old October 5, 2005, 01:05 PM   #8
leadcounsel
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Look to NOLA to see what happens to people that rely on the Gubment for safety and protection.
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Old October 5, 2005, 01:25 PM   #9
hkg3
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Quote:
Carry concealed everywhere. If you are doing it right, no one will ever know.
+1
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Old October 5, 2005, 01:27 PM   #10
PythonGuy
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The same place you get your crystal ball to know that bad is going to happen all the time and danger is just around the corner. Besides, your the one that's worried all the time, maybe your balls are crystal, mine must be brass.
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Old October 5, 2005, 02:55 PM   #11
USP45usp
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PG,

Quote:
your the one that's worried all the time
Not worried at all. Observant, not worried.

Besides, last time I glanced at the name of this forum it was named "Tactics and Training".

This is a gun board.

So therefore, it would seem that bringing up scenarios, realistic ones, and seeing what the membership's opinion would be in such a situation, is what this forum is for.

I could be wrong, won't be the first or the last time, but constructive opinions would be nice for a change.

Wayne
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Old October 5, 2005, 03:00 PM   #12
20cows
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Quote:
The State says that only they can dictate firearm laws and there is no law that allows the college to keep the guns out. In fact, they can't do so.
...so, what's the problem.

Conceal well and you are legally AND morally on solid ground.
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Old October 5, 2005, 09:39 PM   #13
USP45usp
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Quote:
...so, what's the problem.
No problem on my end, what I'm trying to do is to get others, that don't have the same rights as I, to think about it. To get them to think about why I can do such things, and they can't, and what could happen, because they can't.

I could be on the board shoving the fact that I have these "rights" that they don't and gloat and grin and just basically make an ass out of myself.

I could do the same about the automatic knife that I am legal to carry each and every day.

But I don't wish to do so. I want the membership to think about it. To get mad at what they are told to do and if they don't, get into trouble (of which one member has already stated on this thread that it's basically better to follow the law because if you don't and protect your life, that it's not worth it).

And then we have the ones that consider another paranoid because they just don't feel that everything is a game of tag, that you got to "home" or the safe place and no harm will ever happen.

I do wish for other members and gun owners to feel abit of envy that I have this right to do what I can, to carry concealed in areas that their state has deemed off limits, to own and carry the automatic knife, because maybe it will get them off their butts to do something about it.

But, I am fearing that all in all, it's just going to be another "he's paranoid" or "what does one need to have a gun 24/7" or "We're safe in our homes and nothing can happen" replies.

And then it will come up that because I have and carry an automatic knife, that will just justify in some people's minds that I am even that more paranoid.

The fact remains, I can, you can't.

Wayne
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Old October 6, 2005, 12:35 AM   #14
tanksoldier
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Carry everyhere that is not specifically illegal. Know the laws so that if you DO decide to risk breaking them you know the potential penalty.

Note that in some states that do prohibit carry on campus, off site "satillite campus" classes held in rented office space or whatever don't count as "on campus".
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Old October 6, 2005, 11:27 PM   #15
DobermansDoItGoofy
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sharks are in the ocean!

Just because there are sharks in the ocean...doesn't mean I need go surfing
with a pistol...
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Old October 7, 2005, 06:29 AM   #16
Gannet
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I'll combine two of the previous responses:

Carry concealed everywhere that is not specifically illegal.

Your life and health is a HECK of a lot more important than school, or someone's "property rights".
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Old October 7, 2005, 07:10 AM   #17
sterno
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I go to a state-owned college, and it's illegal to carry on it's main and satellite campuses. The campuses are not the safest places to be after hours, not just at night. At about 3:30 the campus goes from holding about 12,000 people to around 5,000, and it feels like much less. It's a ghost town whith plenty of nooks and crannies. As we speak, the local/campus police are looking for a guy that has been threatening women with a knife.

I've had trouble on campus afew times with the undesirable element. The college refuses to actually do anything about these people,. The only logical reason I can come up with is that they don't care about their students once they pay tuition. Having the campus be a firearm free zone just makes it a haven for oppourtunistic criminals.

A person should use their wits as the first self-defense weapon, and mine tell me that when I have a late class I should carry and should be able to do so legally.
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Old October 7, 2005, 07:14 AM   #18
plom
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the first thing I learned when I went in Law Enforcement was:"better judged by 12 than carried by 6"...
I respect the law, but more than that, I respect the life and the right to keep it safe, for me and the other. My advice is carry! If you find yourself in the very unpleasant situation of using your gun to protect your life, I think a jury might take in consideration that you're a good citizen attacked by a perp on your working place.
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Old October 7, 2005, 08:24 PM   #19
jcoiii
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State of TN says that you cannot carry on any school property (39-17-1309) How does that change your opinions? (for TN obviously)
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