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Old October 3, 2005, 03:05 PM   #26
leadcounsel
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Meyer:

Look, I'm not interested in another PI55ing contest with you. To clarify my point, I placed the priorities in order.

1) protect the child. obviously it depends on the lot and adjacent lots, but i would park far enough away to move the vehicle out of any immediate danger from stray gunfire while i can still observe.

2) i said to call the police and gather info

3) IF, and that's a big IF, i felt I could tackle the situation without endangerign my child, i would do so.

I would at least give it some effort. A couple of clear aimed shots on the BG as he's exiting the store at least. Maybe even lucky enough to get a few clear shots at him through the window if the background allows.

It's extremely unlikely that something bad will happen to my baby in a locked car in the time I'm gone, particularly because LEO will be there momentarily. Conversely, it's extremely likely that there is a BG waving a gun in my wife's face and she could get killed in the blink of an eye. I would want to be there to intervene if given the chance or to kill that SOB the moment I get a clear shot.

I live by the "commando" policy of "leave no (wo)man behind" particularly if she's my flipping wife!

Seriously, how could you sleep at night tearing off in your car, saving your own neck, leaving your wife behind.... "whew sally, that was a close one. looks like it's a bad night for mommy. let's go get some icecream...." and later when sally is older... "where's mommy?" "well sweetheart, we were at a store one day and a bad guy came into the store with a gun, so daddy took you and high-tailed it outta there."
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Old October 3, 2005, 03:12 PM   #27
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So taking cover and shooting both BG's in the eye is not a feasible solution? What about taking off in your car, squalling the tires, and shooting out of the window?
Not with my kid in the line of fire. My wife would also be in there, opening fire is a great way of getting her shot.

A couple scenarios could occur:

1)You shoot the one in the car, his buddy gets freaked out he pops your wife and the cashier, grabs what money he can and runs out the back door. Cops never find him.

2) You shoot at the guy in the car, glass changes the flightpath of the bullet and you miss. He pulls up a shotty and rakes your car with your kid in it, with buckshot, possibly killing your kid.

3) You pop the driver, his partner happens to be deaf and has no idea what happened and you put one through his head.

4) You pop the driver, the scout they have inside sees it, pops your wife and he and the original guy kill everyone. You just got 7 people not including yourself killed.

5) They post on TFL and are more tactically minded then you. There is a sniper on top of the Baskin Robbins across the street 75 yards away. Easy shot. You ninja roll out of the car then your brains get sprayed onto your left rear fender. Your kid is now an orphan.

6) Their gun is empty, he gets 237.51 from the register and a carton of smokes, they drive off. Your wife gets back in the car kisses your baby and on the way home you see the cops pull the guys over and arrest them.

7) The gun is loaded, they want money not a blood bath. Everyone plays it cool and you get to take your wife home sans body bag. That night she turns on some Barry White and thanks you for not getting her killed. 9 months later you have two toddlers to worry about and shes still walkin' funny.
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Old October 3, 2005, 03:31 PM   #28
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Not with my kid in the line of fire. My wife would also be in there, opening fire is a great way of getting her shot.
Um yeah, I was kidding. Next time I'll use these tactical ninja throwing stars => ***
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Old October 3, 2005, 03:37 PM   #29
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Um yeah, I was kidding. Next time I'll use these tactical ninja throwing stars => ***
Heh failed to see that you were kidding. My e-sacrasm detector has been way off the past week or so.
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Old October 3, 2005, 03:44 PM   #30
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Heh failed to see that you were kidding. My e-sacrasm detector has been way off the past week or so.
That's way okay friend. I prefer my sarcasm to be enveloped in subtlety.
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Old October 3, 2005, 04:29 PM   #31
Glenn E. Meyer
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Leadcounsel - it's your baby and Darwin as far as I'm concerned.

Tactically move all you want.

If I were in that situation, I would want my spouse to save the baby and leave me to my own devices. If I found out that my spouse left the baby to 'tactically' save me with ninja skills - I would think said spouse was an idiot as the spouse increase the probability of the baby getting hurt and/or being an orphan.

There are only doctrines that make sense as to the best final outcome. Leaving no women behind - blah, blah - tough guy bullcrap. You do what you need to do for the best outcome.

Oh, far enough away to observe but be out of danger from gunfire. That's tactically sound, if you are in visual view of the store, you are in risk of a round. Hey, wrap the baby in your vest.
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Old October 3, 2005, 06:38 PM   #32
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Despite the slight tarnish in some of the replies, I think his scenerio was wise -excluding the tossing of the car keys.

If anything I would:

Place car in reverse, move a few hundred yards down the street.
Put on hazards, start dialing 911 as I walked back towards the store.
Conceal cover behind the passenger with a bead on the inside man.
He takes a bead on her, he gets my beads.
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Old October 3, 2005, 08:34 PM   #33
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Wouldn't the starting of your car/truck/van and then moving off, even slowly, be enough to gain the attention of the lookout and then draw attention to yourself?

That doing so my put you and your child in danger if they get the wrong idea?

Just putting in another aspect to the scenerio, not trying to get flamed or such here.

Wayne

Last edited by USP45usp; October 4, 2005 at 05:23 PM.
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Old October 4, 2005, 09:05 AM   #34
Glenn E. Meyer
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Decided to talk to young moms who are aware of my gun interests and also pretty sensible warrior types. Uniform opinion is to get the baby out of Dodge, out of the line of fire, never leave baby and call the cops.

No tactical movement here - kid is saved first. They will handle their end as best they can.

Also, some opinion that a good mom would be breast feeding the kid anyway, which obviously depends on the age of the kid.

A basic principle of this which many 'tactical' movers seem not to understand is that if you can see the muzzle of the gun, the muzzle of the gun sees you and baby.
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Old October 4, 2005, 01:43 PM   #35
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I would get the hell out of the situation with the kid if at all possible, and would EXPECT my wife to do the same if it were me in that store. The safety of the child comes first. Any responsible parent will understand that. Anything else about the scenario is up in the air. No idea what can or will happen, nor do I care, UNTIL kid is safe. Period.
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Old October 4, 2005, 02:34 PM   #36
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My question is should wife take the perk's wallet after she pulled out her CCW and put six in the back of perks head. IF you taught her well Obewon. Guy in car frealks out and speeds away after seeing his bud's head do a "Marvin".

I mean if YOU are a regular here you probably didn't marry a vegetarian, right?
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Old October 4, 2005, 02:39 PM   #37
Ramcharger
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Just thinking out loud...

Last edited by Denny Hansen; October 8, 2005 at 07:24 PM. Reason: non-relevant, sexist remarks
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Old October 4, 2005, 02:43 PM   #38
Glenn E. Meyer
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More moms talked to with the following points:

1. Mom is idiot to go to a convenience store at night.

2. Should have sent in dad for milk. Leave the jerk, there.

All say - Dad should flee out of possible range. No way you leave baby alone in the car.

Tactical movement be damned - it's time to boogie, Daddy!
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Old October 4, 2005, 02:52 PM   #39
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The reason the woman went for milk is cuz she had a $100 and the guy behind the counter did not accept it last time the guy went in.

Last edited by Denny Hansen; October 8, 2005 at 07:23 PM. Reason: non-relevant, sexist. borderline racist remarks
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Old October 7, 2005, 11:43 PM   #40
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In this situation I would be glad my wife didn't have a gun because it would most likely get her killed. She would attempt to draw on a person who is 1) already pointing a gun at her and 2)probably a lot more experienced with a gun than the average house wife. If she was properly trained, which most women aren't, then she could possibly get a shot off if he wasn't looking.
Yeah, because obviously if your wife had gone to the trouble of purchasing a firearm for herself, she would never bother learning to shoot, or taking a class, or anything like that. She would never think about any of this stuff. Since most women are unarmed and stupid about guns, it's a good thing yours is too.

Did you really mean to say that?

(Me? I'd have been inside, and gotten ticked with my husband if he didn't drive away to protect the kid and call 911 while he was doing it. I wouldn't draw against a drawn gun; instead I'd act submissive, wait for the inevitable "in your face" intimidating gun-wave thing that 99% of videotaped convenience store robbers do, and take the idiot's gun away when he tried it on me. If I die, I'll die on my feet rather than my knees.)

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Old October 11, 2005, 07:44 AM   #41
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PAX wrote:

Quote:
If I die, I'll die on my feet rather than my knees.
Damn, thats good enough for a sig line. Amen.....
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Old October 11, 2005, 09:20 AM   #42
Glenn E. Meyer
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John Farnham says that alot.

I think we have established by now that leaving the baby by itself was a bad plan. Also, the fighting, competent wife is preferred.

However, the fighting, competent wife wouldn't do the convenience store late at night for a nonemergency. Having raised a kid, milk is not an emergency. The baby won't die till morning.
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Old October 11, 2005, 12:43 PM   #43
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I would get out of the car then walk around to the back of the getaway car. Put my gun to the drivers head and make him exit the vehicle.
Then as I walked in to the store with the robbers friend and a .45 to his head, he would look at me and that is when I would shoot him in the face and put my gun back on the other guys head and tell him that he f****d up by associating with someone who would treat a lady like that. Then i would spit on him. Is That Normal?
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Old October 11, 2005, 01:29 PM   #44
The British Soldier
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We Brits cannot carry weapons and since I left the Army I often miss the feel of carrying; I spent 2 years in Ireland in a Counter Terrorist Unit and carried a SIG P226 every day. I felt naked when I left the Province to come back to the mainland...
I'd have got out of my car and stood with my body between the opposition and the baby - he's now protected.
Anyone who comes out of either the car or the shop with a pistol gets shot for threatening me.
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Old October 11, 2005, 01:43 PM   #45
pax
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John Farnham says that alot.
He wasn't the first one to say it and he probably won't be the last.

pax

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'No, you have it the wrong way round. It's better to live on your feet than to die on your knees.' -- Joseph Heller

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Old October 12, 2005, 08:48 AM   #46
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Jebthomas wrote:

Quote:
I would get out of the car then walk around to the back of the getaway car. Put my gun to the drivers head and make him exit the vehicle.
Then as I walked in to the store with the robbers friend and a .45 to his head, he would look at me and that is when I would shoot him in the face and put my gun back on the other guys head and tell him that he f****d up by associating with someone who would treat a lady like that. Then i would spit on him. Is That Normal?
Somebody's been watchin rambo again....
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