The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Tactics and Training

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old September 30, 2005, 05:10 PM   #26
KaceCoyote
Member
 
Join Date: June 9, 2005
Posts: 51
Keep your phone on vibrate,and remember. Family looks out for one another, when your relatives stop looking out for you they're no longer family.
KaceCoyote is offline  
Old September 30, 2005, 05:48 PM   #27
exoduster16
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 27, 2005
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 148
I also will not flame you or judge. You have admitted what you did was wrong of your own conscience. You have represented situation, as you saw it, throughly. You made us understand what was said and what was done. IT TAKES A VERY UPSTANDING, GOOD MAN TO ADMIT THEY ARE WRONG AND ACCEPT THE CONSEQUENCES. You did what you felt was right, no matter how wrong it may have been in the legal sense. You diffused a potentially dangerous situation with out using direct violence on someone. Congrats on being a man able to admit his mistakes and point out to "Monday Morning QB's" where you screwed up without them having to tell you.
__________________
Mine:
Weatherby Vanguard in 7mm Rem Mag
Remington Model 572 Pumpmaster
Remington Model 11-87 12 guage
Remington Model 870 Express 12 Gauge w/18.5 in. barrel
And plenty of ammo for all of them
exoduster16 is offline  
Old September 30, 2005, 07:27 PM   #28
John28226
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 28, 2005
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 292
Excellent

Leadcounsel; thanks for the best and most concise explanation of the mechanics of a restraining order that I have ever seen. This should be printed and available to pass out to anyone who is having difficulty with an ex or otherwise. Outstanding.
John
Charlotte, NC
John28226 is offline  
Old September 30, 2005, 07:37 PM   #29
blackmind
Junior member
 
Join Date: July 21, 2005
Location: West Palm Beach, FL
Posts: 1,224
Quote:
she'll call the police at the first sign of trouble. she'll never arm herself, thats not part of her nature. she is interested in the surefire flashlight as a distraction device, though. good thing i have two, she can have one.
Does she regard it as "her nature" then to be wilfully and voluntarily at the mercy of anyone who does consider it "their nature" to arm themselves?

That is, after all, what she's doing. She's consigning herself to having less power over her future than anyone who might confront her with superior strength, or a weapon.

I hope you can get her to reconsider. But then if she doesn't value her own life that much...


It's a subject I wonder about. Take average Woman A. She hates guns, won't have anything to do with them. Won't even consider the idea of shooting someone to prevent herself being raped, or even murdered. (It's a mindset I can't even begin to relate to, caring so much about a rapist's life that I would prefer my own to be ended at his hands...!)

Put a kid into the picture. She now has a two-year-old daughter in a carseat in the car with her wherever she goes. Ask her about how she feels about not using a gun to defend against a carjacker/kidnaper now. Maybe she feels more like she should take responsibility for having some power to direct events when someone threatens. If she doesn't, I think she's a pitiful parent. Any parent of a helpless child, who does not ensure that he/she can fend off attack for the sake of that child's safety is pitiful, in my book. Should not be in charge of caring for, much less teaching, that child.

Sorry to digress.

-blackmind
blackmind is offline  
Old September 30, 2005, 07:58 PM   #30
swmike
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 25, 2005
Location: Marysville, WA
Posts: 658
Wynterbourne's story had a very familiar ring.

My family started placing more value in the material things rather than just old fashioned closeness. I had a brother, two sisters, and mother (my dad died over 40 years ago). I had to say goodby to my family about 10 years ago because the only things they cared about were material and just couldn't accept life as it is. Almost like a bunch of vultures. My wife and I are now enjoying our two children and 5 grandchildren without their influence. If I am wrong for doing this I guess I will pay the penalty in the "next go around". I fear that my situation might have deteriorated to what occured in yours. I just cut it off sooner.
__________________
My definition of Gun Control--- A steady grip and hitting your target.


"In God we trust, all others are suspects."

"If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying, either I won't need any more, or more won't be of any help".

____________________________________________
swmike is offline  
Old September 30, 2005, 08:06 PM   #31
spacemanspiff
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 16, 2002
Location: alaska
Posts: 3,171
Quote:
Does she regard it as "her nature" then to be wilfully and voluntarily at the mercy of anyone who does consider it "their nature" to arm themselves?
actually, in a way, she does. i'm trying to think back to when she was responsible for all three of us kids, and i dont think theres ever been a point where she had to be a protector of us. if anything she shielded us from the right things.

so the obvious question is 'Why?'
well the answers kind of complicated, so bear with me.
i was raised in a home with strict rules and just about anything fun was forbidden. my mothers conscience moved her to try and instill in her kids that anything that didnt glorify [insert higher power's name of your choice here] was abhorrant. many of the people she associated with in church advocated 'non-violent reactions', the whole 'turn your other cheek' philosophy.
over the years i've came to the conclusion that if one decides to be a martyr it should be for the right reasons. johnny crackhead looking to split my skull so he can get my cash is not the right reason for me to be a martyr.
my mother isnt physically strong. if she was attacked by anyone it would be only by pure luck that she might fight them off. in a way i dont worry much about her getting accosted by a stranger. i do think she has at least one guardian angel on full time duty making sure she doesnt get in a car accident (shes the worlds worst driver EVER) and that angel probably makes sure badguys dont approach her.

because of her beliefs, i dont think that the possibility of death scares her much. she is convinced she knows what happens to a soul at death and it doesnt frighten her. but thats really the kind of thing that can only be proven when you are staring death in the face, right? i think i'll not fear death either, but who knows? i might be soiling my pants begging for my life when that day comes.

so obviously it distressed my mother when i got interested in guns. at first it was a hobby, just to go to the range every now and then, and i wasnt interested in carrying.
then when i did start carrying, she agreed that it did make sense to be prepared for the worst.
she has even gotten used to my carrying openly. and this last week she made the milestone step of asking me to be her armed protector.
and this morning when i left her home, she got to see the big evil ninja-ed AR in all its glory, and she was okay with that being on hand to protect her home.

what did make me happy was that she didnt give me a chance to gift her a surefire, she said 'you have more than one of those, right?'
'yeah mom, here keep this with you at all times, and remember i'm just a phone call away if you need anything.'
__________________
"Every man alone is sincere; at the entrance of a second person hypocrisy begins." - Ralph Waldo Emerson
"People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use." - Soren Kierkegaard
spacemanspiff is offline  
Old September 30, 2005, 11:54 PM   #32
ozarkhillbilly
Member
 
Join Date: July 17, 2005
Location: MO
Posts: 58
I think most people have had this experiance or knows someone who has. With me it was on my moms side when my grandparents were dying, they died within a couple of weeks of each other, I had a unlce and a cousin, the son of a different uncle, who were causing problems. The uncle was just a jerk but the cousin is a real pice of s### who has stolen quite abit of money from my grandparents over the years which does not include the money that he would borrow and just not pay back it is in the tens of thousands of dollars. My grandparents would just keep giving him money.

Now when they both got sick I think it really scared my cousin because he saw his money source drying up so he started making threats like if he did not get everthing grandma and grandpa had people would be sorry because it all belonged to him. When grandpa died first and my cousin realized that all the inheritance was going to be equally split between their children and the grandkids were not getting anything, he really went nuts. He threatend to kill my mom and dad and all of their kids and their familys and his dad because they were in charge of the will. However my father spent nearly 30 years as a LEO before he retired and 10 years after in various LEO capacities so we had the local sheriff 10 deputies and 3 Highway patrolmen all at the funeral and when my cousin showed up,not armed, he was promply arrested and held for over 48 hours. It is my understanding that he was quitely informed as to what would happen to him if he ever threatend a LEO family again this part comes from another family member who spoke with my cousin afterward and said that the cops really scared the blank out of him.

Now while all this was going on my mom would get upset if anybody started talking bad about her brother or nephew she would not defend them just get upset if we said bad things about them. To this day still she would like to work things out with them. My dad explained it to me this way Your mom still rembers playing with her brothers as alittle girl growing up with them on a farm when they all were best friends, she rembers her little brother holding a brand new baby that he was so proud of and seeing your cousin grow up, its hard for her too seperate that from today. While its easy for you to realize that they are nothing but trash because thats what they have been your whole life.

So Spacemanspiff it is probably hard for your mom to realize how bad her sister might be because she still looks at her through colored glasses of yester years while all you see is your mom's nut case sister.
ozarkhillbilly is offline  
Old October 1, 2005, 01:10 AM   #33
JohnKSa
Staff
 
Join Date: February 12, 2001
Location: DFW Area
Posts: 18,282
Quote:
it is probably hard for your mom to realize how bad her sister might be because she still looks at her through colored glasses of yester years while all you see is your mom's nut case sister.
...that's what I was getting at with my ramblings. People have a way of looking past the bad in their relatives. The ability grows with age and really blossoms when something bad happens to a relative.

The classic example is the the interview with the family member of a morally bankrupt multiply felonious piece of garbage who's just gotten his ticket punched by a cop. It's rare for them to have even a single negative thing to say about him.
__________________
Did you know that there is a TEXAS State Rifle Association?
JohnKSa is offline  
Old October 2, 2005, 12:44 AM   #34
spacemanspiff
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 16, 2002
Location: alaska
Posts: 3,171
Quote:
So Spacemanspiff it is probably hard for your mom to realize how bad her sister might be because she still looks at her through colored glasses of yester years while all you see is your mom's nut case sister
in my familys case, that probably isnt the case. the aunt is 15 yrs or more younger than my mother, and if i recall correctly mom had already 'left the nest' before she could ever really bond with her sister.
they've never gotten along.

been two days since the aunts shown up anywhere. who knows>? maybe they did go back to kodiak?

spacemanforalighterscenarioseemynewthreadspiff
__________________
"Every man alone is sincere; at the entrance of a second person hypocrisy begins." - Ralph Waldo Emerson
"People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use." - Soren Kierkegaard
spacemanspiff is offline  
Old October 2, 2005, 07:50 AM   #35
Billy Sparks
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 10, 1999
Location: Winston-Salem, NC 27105
Posts: 745
Do anything just don't get creative with the packing material. My FFL holder rolls his eyes when I open a package with that burst of confetti. Maybe its because I am so excitted that I did into it like a kid at Christmas.

Seriously good luck on family problems. I have been very lucky in that we have never had those types of problems.
Billy Sparks is offline  
Old October 24, 2005, 06:52 PM   #36
spacemanspiff
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 16, 2002
Location: alaska
Posts: 3,171
update!

well the aunt hasnt done anything yet, at least nothing illegal or violent. what the aunt has done however, will prove to be much worse in the long run, for the entire family.

they convinced gram to sign a statement revoking my mothers powers of attorney. the lawyer delivered the papers saturday afternoon. the same day they were having a garage sale of grams possessions. the gods seemed to have smiled on them however. they sold everything but the kitchen table by 3pm. couches, end tables, bedroom sets, dressers, everything. in about 6 hours. the goal being, to have the home ready to put on the market, to fund the nursing home gram will have to be placed in.

the aunt showed up as everyone was leaving gram's, jaws dropped to the floor when they saw that there was nothing in the home.

think the aunt was upset enough by being denied money? whoooo boy! this has got to have her laying napalm! however, she still hasnt sweettalked gram into granting her power of attorney and thus she cant get at the money. doesnt matter, since theres only one small bank account that has grams name on it. years ago she had mom transfer all her money into moms accounts. just a matter of time though before they serve papers ordering mom to hand the money over. which she'll do, now she doesnt want to shoulder the responsibilities of making sure all of grams affairs are in order, the aunt has promised to do it all.

oh yeah, they also found out i took grams dog to the pound. no one could care for the dog anymore, its been miserable in an empty home with no one to keep company, it was the right thing to do. turns out the dog was put to sleep. so i'm now on the doo-doo list. almost makes me wish i did what i originally intended to do, in a field with a .22 and a shovel.

so now mom is going to move in with her best friend until this blows over. i'll keep patrolling the neighborhood and do what i can.

the sad part is, now there will be no one who will spend time with gram. the aunt won't, she just wants the money.
__________________
"Every man alone is sincere; at the entrance of a second person hypocrisy begins." - Ralph Waldo Emerson
"People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use." - Soren Kierkegaard
spacemanspiff is offline  
Old October 24, 2005, 09:30 PM   #37
exoduster16
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 27, 2005
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 148
spacemanspiff.....

Dude, I love the name....Calvin and Hobbes is the best!!!

Anyhow, I know exactly how you feel. One of my aunts did the same thing. My family has always been really tight. Even with this aunt. But when she found out that my grandmother was terminally ill, oooohhhh boy, she was so far up my grandmother's ass that you couldn't tell where she began and my grandmother ended. The worse part is that she is an aunt by marriage ( ). She thought that my uncle had power of attorney, but he didn't tell her that he signed off that right to his sister. My aunt would go everyday and visit my grandmother. She would take weeks off of work just to go to the hospital and visit. Most everyone thought that she was as nice as could be. Up until my younger cousin repeated a phone call more or less word for word that a call my aunt had with one of her friends about getting everything. And then she found out that my uncle signed power of attorney away. She tried to have my grandmother sign off on it to. It got to the point where no one would communicate with them anymore. My aunt finally got the point. There is still bitter feelings amongst us, but she didn't do anything really stupid and threaten anyone. (I think this is because most of my older cousins and other uncles carry!) I'm sure she figured out to keep her mouth shot when they were around.

Anyhow, I hope your situation improves and best of luck to you and your mom.
__________________
Mine:
Weatherby Vanguard in 7mm Rem Mag
Remington Model 572 Pumpmaster
Remington Model 11-87 12 guage
Remington Model 870 Express 12 Gauge w/18.5 in. barrel
And plenty of ammo for all of them
exoduster16 is offline  
Old October 24, 2005, 10:27 PM   #38
StormTrooper
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 7, 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 110
It really sucks when its your own family, but as hard as it may be to do, I agree with the restraining order for the safety of both your mother and grandmother, if you still have to support her some how, make it a set amount each month direct deposited into an account...maybe where she can only take out so much at one time, thus limiting her spending habits.

sorry...thats the best i could suggest before you camp out with the scatter gun.
StormTrooper is offline  
Old October 25, 2005, 08:43 PM   #39
FirearmFan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 25, 2005
Location: Philly
Posts: 270
Another restraining order story

Spacemanspiff,

If you haven't already, get the restraining order ASAP! A good friend of mine and his girlfriend moved into an apartment in my building. Things were going good until she went nuts thinking he was cheating. Next thing you know she thinks she's Mike Tyson with a Bruce Lee Kick and starts wailing on him. Now she use to be a gymnast, which means she's little but strong so when she kicks him in the face it actually does some damage. Anyway he shoves her away, they make up and the cycle begins.

Well this process goes on for about two months and he can't take it anymore. She starts getting louder, more beligerent, and combative because he won't hit her and hasn't called the police. (For the record I'm not suggesting hitting women, I'm refering to her noticing his lack of response)

The straw that broke the camels back was when she tells her mom he's hitting her and she calls the police. Now he didn't hit her at all. In fact he was in my place laying low and cooling out. Well we met the police at the door and they talked with both of them and told them both the same thing. WHOEVER GETS THE RESTRAINING ORDER FIRST, WINS!

Next thing you know I'm doing 60 in a 45 to get to the court house at 5:30 in the morning. Luckily her car isn't working so we get the jump start and end up in court getting an emergency restraining order first. Suffice to say in the long end of it he won and kept the apartment plus all his stuff she was trying to take. The restraining order CYA's your A$$ in case the poop hits the fan. Good luck, I'll be praying for ya.
FirearmFan is offline  
Old October 26, 2005, 11:32 AM   #40
20cows
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 22, 2005
Location: West Texas
Posts: 376
Quote:
...the sad part is, now there will be no one who will spend time with gram.
Spiff, YOU'RE there. This is an opportunity to give yourself and your gram an incredible gift of time and precious memories. Don't let it pass you by.
20cows is offline  
Old December 2, 2005, 01:26 PM   #41
spacemanspiff
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 16, 2002
Location: alaska
Posts: 3,171
update

yeaaaah, well see that wont be happening anytime soon 20cows.

see, the leeches did find out that i took the dog to the pound, thats all documented. and they were quick to let gram know i was a mean terrible person. then somehow someone got the bright idea to change that story and say i took the dog and shot it.

ran into a couple of cousins last night, at first they were nice and friendly, then a few hours later after they had their liquid courage (i was working security at a boxing event) they confronted me. i got told that they 'never like me'. gee, what a shock! and i lost sooo much sleep over it! well, only one of the cousins actually did any talking. it was as if it was some big revelation that she never liked me, and oh, if i ever get the urge to shoot another dog, they'll be on me!

i'm 99% positive this rumor got started by my own brother, who has made threats to me in the past, so i'm considering him as much of a threat as the rest of them. although i'm keeping the eyes on the back of my head wide open, i'm not too concerned since they all know i carry.

none of us have heard from gram. shes cut off contact and told us she doesnt need us.
__________________
"Every man alone is sincere; at the entrance of a second person hypocrisy begins." - Ralph Waldo Emerson
"People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use." - Soren Kierkegaard
spacemanspiff is offline  
Old December 2, 2005, 02:12 PM   #42
20cows
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 22, 2005
Location: West Texas
Posts: 376
Yours is the only part of the relationship you have any control over. If YOU love Grams, don't let others poison that relationship. I would suggest you go to her and give her a true explanation of your actions and motives (don't turn it into an opportunity to bash others). If she still has hard feelings towards you, then it has become her problem, not yours.

I'm just suggesting you not leave anything positive unsaid that will be cause for regret later.

Go in peace.
20cows is offline  
Old December 2, 2005, 02:32 PM   #43
Marky
Junior member
 
Join Date: November 28, 2005
Location: HUNTINGTON, W.VA.
Posts: 326
crazy aunt

Im new here so i hope i dont get kicked-off but when i have a problem with a female there is plenty of crack-heads on about every corner here and they (female ones) will knock another females teeth down her throat for 10 or 20 bucks, that might sound nutz to some people but man when you start talking (and typing) about domestic problems and gun-fire your opening up a real barrell -o-worms, at least get a police record of her threats incase something does happen because too many times you will be the one behind bars no matter what happens. As far as the law goes around here you have to be able to articulate to a prosecuter &/or jury that you had absolutly no choice left to use your firearm, so anything short of her comming at you w/a butcher knife or a gun wont do. Have you thought about having her committed to a mental inst.?, im serious, cause when the hearst shows up its too late. see ya
Marky is offline  
Old December 2, 2005, 02:38 PM   #44
coolridelude
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 26, 2005
Location: TX
Posts: 406
spacemanspiff, hope everything goes alright. all you need to work about is yourself and wow ever you love. i am kinda in the same.

my anut never viisted my grandmother only unless she wanted money. this happened about a couple years ago. my grandmother died in 2002. i came down to the funeral. what do you know she was crying her eyes out. she made a promise to my grandfather that she would visit him once a week. she only visits him for money. i confronted her(against my moms wishes) because my aunt can only dish out, but cant take when someone confronts her. now i don't talk to her, and i have to try my best to keep my mouth shut because my mom asked me and i told her to the best of my ability. she tried to convice my grandfather to give her the land that was promise to my mom.(straw that broke the camels back).

some history. i live right next door to my grandfather visit her everyday. my aunt can go to the mall and such but can't visit her own father. from the mall we live about a mile away. you have to pass out house and my grandfathers house to get to the mall.

i told my mom my mom talked to her. but her husband said it was theirs. my mom is paying for that property. well when my uncle raised his voice and pushed my mom i knocked my out, and kicked him a couple times on the floor.
i don't care for those relitives, and my grandfather said i did a good job. he know is is going to be my moms property and told everyone in the family this.

p.s. thanksgiving, and christmas are very intresting.

now i go viist my grandfather when they are there because, i personal don't want them to talk to him. but when i get their all the sh** talking stops and my grandfather tells me when they are coming.
__________________
life doesn't give you a second chance to learn from your mistakes.
coolridelude is offline  
Old December 2, 2005, 03:15 PM   #45
Double Naught Spy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 8, 2001
Location: Forestburg, Montague County, Texas
Posts: 10,388
spacemanspiff, this is not a scenario. It is real life. A scenario is a hypothetical situation.
__________________
"If you look through your scope and see your shoe, aim higher."
-- said to me by my 11 year old daughter before going out for hogs 8/13/2011
Double Naught Spy is offline  
Old December 2, 2005, 04:49 PM   #46
ozzy1038
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 11, 2005
Posts: 110
Sad to hear you have some scum related to you as well. Hopefully everything works out and your Aunt doesn't get s**t.

I am a little ****** to hear about the dog. There is no one that could have taken it or taken care of it? Sounds a little harsh for an innocent creature. Innocent dog dead, freeloading trash alive.

But who am I to judge? The world goes on.
__________________
Lead Thrower
ozzy1038 is offline  
Old December 2, 2005, 05:04 PM   #47
spacemanspiff
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 16, 2002
Location: alaska
Posts: 3,171
no one in our family was in a position to take the dog. taking it to the pound was the best option, as there was the chance someone would adopt it.
__________________
"Every man alone is sincere; at the entrance of a second person hypocrisy begins." - Ralph Waldo Emerson
"People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use." - Soren Kierkegaard
spacemanspiff is offline  
Old December 2, 2005, 06:42 PM   #48
woodland
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 26, 2001
Location: western wa.
Posts: 566
Spaceman, I really feel for you. When my grandfather died, (he was muti-millionare with several companies, bus companies, 1800 acre ranch, etc.) it was world war three between my dad's three brothers and their step mom. I kid you not, the estate went on for over 16 years!!!! After a year of trying to mediate and reach a conclusion, my dad finaly said "I'm out. Give me this and this, and I'm done." They all tried to convince him it would all be settled in a month. HA! The brothers were stealing things and selling them for dirt just for fast cash. Things like buldozers, dump trucks, busses, front end loaders. It was really sick, because they all could have been VERY well off. Instead, they fought, and the lawyers wound up with almost all of it. One of the bankers ended up in fed prison for embezeling hundreds of thousands of dollars off the estate.

I also know what you mean about the people from the villages. I lived in Alaska as a kid, and my other grandfather was superintendant of education for all the villages in the state in the 70's and 80's. He would go out and set up and oversee the schools, and spent a lot of time in many of them. He would get very close to the people in his times there, and it would break his heart to see what happened to some of them after they left the villages.

Thoughts and prayers are with you man!
__________________
"There is no spoon..."
woodland is offline  
Old December 10, 2005, 02:59 AM   #49
spacemanspiff
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 16, 2002
Location: alaska
Posts: 3,171
i've had two more run ins, one with the aunts husband (i may have told about this already, i forget), but he was just getting verbal.
tonight thought both psycho aunt and him cornered me at my post (working id check point for wetside of hockey arena) and went on and on about how i'm the scum of the earth and i'm on everyones ****-list and were all liars and thiefs and blah blah blah.

i have to admit i did bait them a bit, i did throw a few things back in their face, didnt do much good. so when they started cussing me out royally i took a few steps back and told them to 'Walk away', which they really didnt like. so i threw out a 'Want to get tossed from the building?' and started calling for my partner with the radio so i could get some backup, that made them scurry off.

talked with a police officer who was in the building, and he said it sounds like i've got enough to get a restraining order put against them. i've already started a paper trail, filling out an incident report with the security office of the arena, and let them know what happened.

so now i gots a question. when i get a RO against the aunt and her husband, thats going to make it so they cant come around my home or work, but could they turn around and have a RO put against me in retaliation?
__________________
"Every man alone is sincere; at the entrance of a second person hypocrisy begins." - Ralph Waldo Emerson
"People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use." - Soren Kierkegaard
spacemanspiff is offline  
Old December 10, 2005, 04:01 AM   #50
Glock 31
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 30, 2005
Posts: 541
Go with the AR and ninja accessories.
Glock 31 is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:54 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.14258 seconds with 7 queries