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Old September 29, 2005, 06:58 PM   #1
spacemanspiff
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heres a scenario....and its true

domestic disturbances in my family have led to an aunt threatening to kill my dear mother.

the aunt is a human leech and is upset because my mother (who is in charge of my grandmothers finances) is not giving her money, like grandmother has been doing every month for the last few years.

the aunt and her husband both go crying to my grandmothers hospital bed lamenting about being evicted because they cant pay rent, or that their car is being repossessed because they cant make their car payment. this stresses grandmother out and shes shouldnt be having to bear this cross while shes trying to gain her strength back from having pnemonia (sp?) and various other ailments from old age.

the aunt has made not just outright death threats against my mother but veiled threats that indicate they are covertly watching her movements from home to the hospital.

mom suspects the aunt will try something, either by breaking into grandmothers home, or making a scene down at the hospital.


being the only member of my entire family that carries, i am now the Bodyguard. Shall i load up the 12 guage and camp out in front of the home? or the AR with its ninja accessories?
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Old September 29, 2005, 07:06 PM   #2
Wildalaska
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Does your aunt wear body armor? if so, back shot!



Spiff you know my views of this BS with your aunt already. Go get that cell phone!

WildrightupthestreetAlaska
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Old September 29, 2005, 07:20 PM   #3
john in jax
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It seems stalking laws would apply and a restraining order should be easy to obtain if you could get any of these threats on tape.

Documenting the threats in any way shape or form should help you and your case, no matter what path this senerio takes. If your aunt and uncle have been in trouble with the law before, most LEO's won't be very sympathetic to their excuses if they are caught violating any laws.
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Old September 29, 2005, 07:22 PM   #4
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Get the aunt to make the threats where you can record them being made, or have witnesses hear and see them.

THEN GO TO THE POLICE ABOUT IT. GET A REPORT MADE and put it into a safe-deposit box. CYA, my friend.

THEN, if TSHTF and you have to defend against this psycho aunt, you can say to the police, "See? See?!" (And any relatives who have a problem with what the aunt forces you to do.)

I guess that if you really thought the aunt was such a lethal danger, you'd have already been doing what you gotta do. Are you sure you really feel that she's headed toward doing something insane?

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Old September 29, 2005, 07:28 PM   #5
spacemanspiff
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never occurred to me that shes stalking her....
hmmmm, TRO?
i like the sounds of that!

tonight if i can find the time i'll go buy a cell phone. but i'll also stop by and visit grandma, in the hopes the aunt will be around. i can tactfully suggest it isnt in her best interests to follow through with her threats.

and i'll camp out with the kimber and the AR. just put on a surefire vert foregrip, perfect for alaskas dark nights.
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Old September 29, 2005, 07:44 PM   #6
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If I may....

I'm certain you don't care to hear my take, but I'll plug away anyway.
This is a tough situation and without knowing more it's hard to advise.... is your aunt really a violent person? Or is she just upset and saying stupid things?

Here's the basics of how restraining orders work, if you don't already know.

Your mom must go to the courthouse where she lives and request a temporary restraining/protection order (TRO or TPO). This will be served to your aunt by the police or process server. It will probably cost about $100 total. It will tell your aunt that she is breaking the law by coming within a named distance of your mom and it will also instruct her that she has a permanency hearing in roughly 10 days. In requesting the orignal TRO and in the permanency hearing, your mom will have to demonstrate these KEY words, "I'm in fear for my life." Otherwise, the TRO and/or the restraining order will probably not be granted.

Even if it is granted, it's not a magical shield. In fact, statistics show that restraining orders may not work and often are counterproductive because they incite violence...

What a restraining order WON'T do is keep a determined person from harming your mom. The police won't act as body guards. They will only come over after the fact and clean up the mess and hand out the tickets... and coming over because there is a violation in the restraining order will be a very low priority. You can expect to resolve the situation yourself long before the black and blue show up. So, if someone wants to hurt you, restraining orders have limited effect.

What a restraining order will do is for certain make your aunt extremely mad and, if her threats of violence were only threats, it could drive her to lash out.

It will also keep your aunt legally at bay from your mom and anywhere your mom goes. You can name the hospital where your mom visits your grandmother and this will keep the aunt away from grandma too, or at least give legal grounds for having your aunt arrested.

Of course, the paper trail will be good if you end up having to use force to defend your mom or you.

Heed this warning. If you REALLY want to Pi55 someone off and make them violent toward you, attempt to get a restraining order against them, or worse yet, get them arrested under contempt for violation of a restraining order. It will likely put you or your mom in worse harm than you originally faced.

Good luck.
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Old September 29, 2005, 07:56 PM   #7
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I got a good deal with T-Mobile. The phone ($99) is a Nokia 6010, and had a $99 instant rebate so it cost me nothing. The plan comes with 1000 anytime minutes and unlimited night and weekend minutes for a base price of $45.99 or something like that. I added 400 text messages for $4. Taxes on the plan should be about another $10. Given that I can blab forever at night and on weekends, it's a pretty good plan. They also have a cheaper plan under that, if you don't need as much talk time.

Their coverage is excellent, and seems to beat Cingular hands down (I used to have Cingular).

Also, LONG DISTANCE and ROAMING are included for no additional charge! I was able to travel to NY and Nantucket from FL and it cost me nothing additional to use my phone. (Roaming charges with Cingular were something like $.79 per minute! )


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Old September 29, 2005, 07:59 PM   #8
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Leadcounsel, if more women knew the facts of what you presented, I think we would all be better off. More women would therefore understand the need of equipping themselves to defend themselves, rather than thinking that the police are going to drop everything and come a-runnin' because the old boyfriend is drunk and showed up at 2 a.m. again after the TRO is in place.

We need women, who are far underrepresented in the gun-rights political landscape, to be conscious of the fact that responsibility for their own protection rests with THEM.

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Old September 29, 2005, 08:07 PM   #9
spacemanspiff
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been mulling over your post, blackmind... i gotta admit i'm a little ashamed of myself.

see, this domestic disturbance has been going on for over a week now. and i really havent taken it seriously. not because the aunt is unlikely to follow through with her threats, i've just been, slightly apathetic.

to fill in some of the backdrop, the threats occurred at the hospital, right in front of grandma. she heard her daughter threaten to kill her other daughter. none of the nursing staff heard this, but they are aware that the aunt is a loose cannon. the aunt has laid hands on my mother, grabbing her by the shoulder, and the nurses intervened, telling the aunt to leave.

a few days later, the aunts husband was refused from seeing grandma, infuriating the aunt. (they were asking for a check to be made out to them for $1900; my mother was going to write it, provided they gave over collateral). the aunt stormed in, cursing up a storm, accusing everyone of bleeding grandma dry (hmmm, projection perhaps?) and ended it by saying 'you'll never see us or the baby again!', to which grandma says 'oh well, i've lost a daughter.'

too bad we couldnt hold the aunt to her words of never coming back. today the aunts husband made another tearful display, saying they were being evicted.


would they do anything? the husband wouldnt. if anything he'd just be a driver. the aunts state of mind is indeed suspect. when she did make the threat, mother said 'go ahead, you'll spend the rest of your life in jail away from your family', the aunt replied 'it'd be worth it!'

unfortunately, i dont think my mother would go through the steps of getting a TRO.
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Old September 29, 2005, 08:10 PM   #10
Bender711
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Quote:
being the only member of my entire family that carries, i am now the Bodyguard. Shall i load up the 12 guage and camp out in front of the home? or the AR with its ninja accessories?
personaly id got with the 12 guage...but thats just me.
good luck with your crazy aunt, ive got one like that but she lives real far away.
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Old September 29, 2005, 08:47 PM   #11
Wynterbourne
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NOTE: After reading this post, I fully understand that I will be flamed. I'm ready to be flamed, to be roasted, to be incinerated by the messages that I am likely to recieve. The incidents that occur below were reckless, stupid, and illegal in most states.

But I've been in the same damn situation before, and am simply relaying what I did in that situation. I'm not saying that it was the right thing to do, or even the sane thing to do, simply what was done. If you take issue with that, flame away.


Spiff, you're giving me a little bit of DejaVu here.

'Bout 11-12 years ago, my Grandmother was lying on her deathbed. It had been a long, slow degradation from a form of skin cancer. She'd reached the point where she was virtually unresponsive and almost vegetative. We all knew that she was holding on for the kids to say goodbye, and that it as ok.

So the family drives in to Georgia from around the country. Some lived local, we lived in Texas, some from Illinois, and some from Florida. My Grandfather, a man who I'd never seen struggle with anything in his life was barely holding it together.

While we're there, the family heads outside and starts to have a heated argument over who's going to get what when my Grandparent's die. The most vocal individuals were an Aunt of mine and her husband who, as much as I hate to say it, is utter scum. They're a leech upon society who's only notable accomplishment is that ALL of their children have managed to serve multiple terms for 'Production of Metha-Amphetamines'. They constantly begged for money, for cars, for rent. I can't think of a time in my life when they haven't been on welfare.

I decide to head outside and see just what the smeg is going on when I see my Grandfather start to cry. I'd never seen this man cry in my life. He didn't cry when his father died. He didn't cry when his sister died. The man was a rock.

I listen for about 20 minutes when I start hearing my Aunt, and her husband, start with the threats. They commented on how most of us lived out of state and how they could simply come and get whatever they wanted. When another one of my Aunts who lived locally started talking about how she held Power of Attorney, and wouldn't let them, the threats of violence started flying.

All the while the rest of the family is STILL arguing over who's going to get what, and how they'll get it out of the house once my Grandfather is dead.

This would be a good time to mention that I wasn't as 'stable' then as I am now.

My response was to go to the van, reach under the driver's seat, and pull out my father's .44 Ruger Redhawk. It's an intimidating little piece with a 7.5" stainless steel barrel and wood grips. Nobody noticed me pull it, nobody noticed me check to make sure there was a round chambered, and nobody noticed me lift it into the air.

*CLICK*...BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM..silence.

At this point I calmly notified them that if I heard one more person make any further statements regarding the disposition of my grandparents property prior to their death, I would happily "shoot them in the face". I further notified them that, as I had a very menial job that didn't mean much, I would be more than happy to drive back to Georgia and rectify the situation should it occur again in the future.

My aunt started to make a comment.

Point...*CLICK*...comment aborted.

I spent the next 4 days with a loaded .44 Ruger with me at all times, and I have to say that it was the most peaceful time I'd spent around my family in years. Of course, it might have something to do with the fact that I was half deaf after firing off a .44 right next to my head.

My Grandfather's only response was to hug me when I came back in.

My family remained civil until my Grandmother's funeral. I was a Pall Bearer, in a grey 3-piece suit, with a .44 Ruger in a hand crafted western holster on my right hip. It was there at my Grandfather's request.

Needless to say, I don't see my family much any more.

We came to find out, after the fact, that a restraining order had been placed against the one Aunt by the other, for stalking and threats of violence at her workplace. We found out even later that someone had peppered the front of their home with shots of 00 buck, shot up her mailbox, and put a couple of slugs into her car. The truck being driven by the attackers looked REMARKABLY like the truck owned by a certain member of my family's husband.

I do not recommend that anyone undertake a course of action similar to the one I took above. It was reckless, immature, and highly unstable. It was just plain stupid, and I could have gotten into a lot of trouble for it. I could have possibly seen jail time for it.

And don't even start on the fact that I pointed a loaded weapon at someone's head. I fully realize what could have happened. Understand, however, that at that time I would have followed through upon my promise.

I wasn't right in the head at that time in my life, if you haven't figured that out.

But that was one of the formative moments in my life. Someone with an extensive history of violence and abuse, when faced with definitive and possibly terminal consequences for their actions, backed down. Upon realization that there was someone out there with the means and capability to do them harm if they did harm upon another person, their sense of self-preservation took hold.

I echo the sentiments of the other people who've commented so far. Go through the motions, file the necessary reports, get the necessary documentation. In today's world the First Commandment should be "Cover Thine Own Ass".

But after that, if your mother is willing, you might consider trying to get her to arm herself with SOME form of weapon. It's better to have something that she can use to defend herself with than nothing. If she's willing, and she recognizes the danger, take her to the range with you. You might even consider it a 'bonding' experience.

Other than that, you can consider travelling with your mother when you can. If she's unwilling to arm herself and train, then it's better that she have someone along with her that is armed and does train. It might be a hassle, but she's family. Family's worth the hassle.

If you can't travel with her, get her some form of a cordless phone, if she doesn't have one. Even a prepaid would work. Program your number into the speed dial for every button on the panel. I'm willing to bet you can get there a whole lot quicker than the local police can.

But in the end, you might consider letting the family know, perhaps in some very general terms if not specifics, that if ANY harm comes to your mother, there will be rather severe consequences to whomever is responsible. Understand that if you do, you WILL be putting yourself in the line of fire. In the end, however, what will decide the issue is whether your Aunt feels that harming your Mother is worth whatever repurcussions might be visitted upon her. Whether said repercussions are from the local judiciary, or from the end of a loaded gun, is not for me to say.

Domestic issues are some of the most emotionally charged, violent issues that can happen. If it escalates to violence, I believe that you will agree that it is highly unlikely that local law enforcement will arrive in time to protect your mother. She either needs to be able to protect herself, or she needs to be protected, whether it be through word or deed.
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Old September 29, 2005, 08:56 PM   #12
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Wynterbourne,
Wow! That is some story!

No judgment from me. You sound like a guy who had been pushed too far, by scumbag relatives.

For someone who says he was "not right...in the head," you sure are one articulate sonofagun. "Well written," was the first thing that came to mind after the initial shock of the actual story details.

Thanks for coming out with that.

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Old September 29, 2005, 09:08 PM   #13
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Wow... I dont know bout other races but us asians got a tight family. Its very rare you will hear bout an asian family getting upset over financial stuff after a death. If my grandmother were to die, my extended family would be pushing each other to take the cash instead.

Anyways, I think you should get a restraining order aganist your aunt. Its a very sad thing when things like this happen within family. If your aunt and husband attempts to harm your mom or anyone, the only thing I can say is to put them down, family or not.
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Old September 29, 2005, 09:25 PM   #14
almark
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Wynterbourne,
I can't pass judgment on you either... it's entirely possible that you did the only thing those relatives would have responded to, and everyone has their limits. Sorry you had to go through that.
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Old September 29, 2005, 10:35 PM   #15
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I don't have to tell you what a terrible situation this is.

As the bodyguard, have you thought about the possibility that you might end up having to shoot a relative? Have you thought about how other family members would handle this? Whatever they're paying you, it's not enough...

I'm certainly not saying you should let your mom go unprotected, but the implications of being armed against your own family are pretty severe and far-reaching. I think I'd go HEAVY on the defense/protection/precautionary angle and seriously de-emphasize the weaponry angle. Down the road, it might make a world of difference in how your family sees you.

So to your initial question, I'd carry a firearm (I always do) but it would be something very discreet. You don't want to LOOK like you're out to kill someone, and you also don't want to escalate the situation.

Good luck
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Old September 29, 2005, 11:00 PM   #16
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Quote:
My aunt started to make a comment.

Point...*CLICK*...comment aborted
I do believe that this is the fastest way to get someone to shut up ever invented.
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Old September 29, 2005, 11:28 PM   #17
Wildalaska
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Quote:
I do not recommend that anyone undertake a course of action similar to the one I took above. It was reckless, immature, and highly unstable. It was just plain stupid, and I could have gotten into a lot of trouble for it. I could have possibly seen jail time for it.

And your man enough to admit it...bravo


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Old September 29, 2005, 11:41 PM   #18
spacemanspiff
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apparently i was wrong, mom has already brought out the words 'restraining order'.

WB, thank you for sharing your story. family strife is the worst kind.

massan, our family used to be 'tight', but that crumbled as the stronger uncles of mine passed away, they could always keep the stupider familymembers in check.

johnksa, yes i have reconciled the possibility of using deadly force against my own blood. but its my mother who has been threatened. there are some things that civilized humans just arent ever supposed to do, and i regret taking this long to come up with a reaction to it.

now, there are two fronts that need protecting: my mothers home and my grandmothers home. mom is spending the night at grandmothers with her sister-in-law, and i'll stay at moms.

she'll call the police at the first sign of trouble. she'll never arm herself, thats not part of her nature. she is interested in the surefire flashlight as a distraction device, though. good thing i have two, she can have one.

spacemanhandsabovethewaisttherebuckospiff
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Old September 30, 2005, 01:21 AM   #19
tanksoldier
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Depending on your Mom's legal status with regard to Grandma she may be able to prevent these hospital visits by Auntie and may be able to get a restraining order if there are witnesses to the threats. Recording them is even better.

Also, in most states making a threat with the apparent ability to carry it out is assault... and making threats in general can be illegal several ways depending on your state laws.

OTOH, if your Aunt makes some veiled mention of your Mom's safety you can always tell them not to worry, you CC and will be escorting Mom around for the forseable future.
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Old September 30, 2005, 01:31 AM   #20
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Old saying we have in the Army: "If it's stupid, but it works, it isn't stupid."

Your solution worked. May not work or be the best choice for everybody, but it worked for you.


Quote:
If you take issue with that, flame away.
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Old September 30, 2005, 06:52 AM   #21
Billy Sparks
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Two things, first off you have made me VERY happy to be a only child. Two you still haven't bought a cell phone? Okay WA cut him off of Colts and AR's until he gets one. After the last story where you were in the middle of street with the guy following you I thought you had learned.

Good luck on the family issue. When my mother's mother passed away her sister agreed with everything she did and her brother was afraid of my father and I so he wouldn't cross her.
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Old September 30, 2005, 07:09 AM   #22
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Next time on Jerry Springer...............
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Old September 30, 2005, 09:03 AM   #23
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We might be related. My aunt placed my grandmother in a nursing home, sold all her belongings, house, car, purchased a huge motor home, remodeled her house, didnt like the motorhome cause it was "to small" and sold it for probably half the price and purchased one with a queen size bed in the back. Then she built a garage big enough to cover it. After all that she declared my grandmother indingent and moved her to a state run facility. My grandmother told me other residents would come into her room and steal her stuff, she woke up several times being beat on by residents.

My grandmother saved all her life for retirement and got it all taken away.
Hope my aunt enjoys her "blood money" now, cause she cant take it to hell when she goes, and she is definately going.

When my dad died, they ravaged his house. So desperate to get into his safe they pried the door til it broke. Went to look for his guns, they had moved them all to their collections...
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Old September 30, 2005, 11:59 AM   #24
spacemanspiff
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whoa nelly there billy!! don't want us to get creative when using packaging material for your next purchase, do you?

one thing has changed since the last incident: i am mobile. and getting fatter since i'm not walking to and from work every day. dont worry i'll get a cell phone, todays payday (should be getting a check from you as well, WA?) so i can splurge a little.



theres a mentality that i've only come across with people who come from the village, as most of my family has. this mentality moves the individual to live 'feast or famine'. in years past when commercial fishing was a lucrative business (pre-exxon valdez oil spill) every family in the village was rolling in money. family members who fell on hard times would never ask for a 'loan'. they'd just ask for 'money', and it was always given to them, no questions asked.
village life is obviously different than city life, and those who live in the village have virtually no debt to the outside world. their homes are usually bought from the village corporation, built on land owned by the corporation, and thus are bought for only the costs of the materials/labor. vehicles are purchased for cash, as are boats, atv's, etc.

now this mentality works in the village, that lifestyle is nothing to be ashamed of. but when that villager moves to the city and gets in debt, and is fully able to work but chooses not to, and has to survive by living on handouts, its quite dishonorable. having a generous matriarch doesn't help much either.

my grandmother has supported half of her children, and about 2/3's of her grandchildren over the years because she can't say 'No' to them. she knows they dont appreciate her, but as long as they keep coming back for handouts she has someone around to keep her company, take her to the store, do the little things.

now the aunt is realizing her free ride is nearing the end of the line. she hasnt paid any attention to the medical condition her mother is in, she refuses to realize that she will have to go into a nursing home, at the cost of $11,000 a month, and when cash reserves are used up, they will put a lien against her assets. the aunt is assusing my mother of stealing all grandmas money, and everyone else of 'cleaning her out!'

btw, mom has power of attorney of grandma so what she says goes. and the only will that has been found left out the aunt entirely. whenever my dear grandma dies, it will make this little situation look like quite the molehill.
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Old September 30, 2005, 04:31 PM   #25
spacemanspiff
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okay i got a cell phone during lunch. i'm not cut off anymore, right?

i think this increases my ninjatude by 1 point!
whooooooooo hooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.
Ninjatude 17!
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