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Old September 27, 2005, 01:46 PM   #1
rallyhound
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poor tactics- disturbing video

I stumbled across this video of a police officer shooting.
I think we can see where the officer made his mistakes.
I do hope he survived the fight.
www.filecabi.net/v/file/officervsguy/wmv
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Old September 27, 2005, 02:43 PM   #2
MD_Willington
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This movie is actually part of a training video now:

https://www.lineofduty.com/cart/Deta...96&category=71

Quote:
Georgia State Trooper (24 Minutes)

A traffic stop on a Georgia interstate involves lethal force; an outstanding example of the hazards of any traffic stop and use of backup. In this case, backup was a critical issue. Proper backup procedures are also addressed separately in this program.
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Old September 27, 2005, 03:17 PM   #3
CobrayCommando
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He didn't survive.
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Old September 27, 2005, 03:33 PM   #4
AMT8951
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I actually watched the "Line of Duty" segment which was done on this incident. If I remember correctly, the shooter was a Vietnam and used a M1 Carbine. He was a socopathic nut job who had a history of problems with the police, gov't and authority in general. One of those idiots, like David Koresh or Carl Drega, who some of the more "radical" members of the gun media tries to put up as some sort of 2nd amendment "Patriot".
The Officer died at the scene. The shooter was found a few hours later, alive , gut shot and hiding behind a tree on his own property. He stated to the cops who found him that he was "Waiting to die". After he was arrested, he told the police that he wasn't trying to kill the officer, because he using an M1 Carbine and he didn't think the rounds would penetrate his vest.
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Old September 27, 2005, 03:49 PM   #5
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And yet the shooter approached the officer after he was down and wounded and shot him in the eye...
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Old September 27, 2005, 04:39 PM   #6
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pretty sad.

What was the police officer waiting for?
He warned the guy to put the gun down numerous times. How many does it require?
It actually looked like the officer was waiting while the guy was loading his rifle in his truck instead of stopping him before he got the rifle out ready to shoot.

I know it is a police officer's duty to keep everyone alive, if possible, but he took it too far and cost him his own life.
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Old September 27, 2005, 05:09 PM   #7
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He should of shot as soon as the guy walked or danced...back to his car. I would have. Whats the old saying...better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6?
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Old September 27, 2005, 06:06 PM   #8
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Unfortunately, that officer waited much too long and gave the guy too many warnings before acting. He never took the opportunity to end the situation before he lost the advantage.
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Old September 27, 2005, 06:22 PM   #9
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Can't watch the video in question because I'm not at a computer that will do it; but it sounds like people are saying that this officer did not apparently have the nerve to use lethal force.

You know, like when a crime victim exhibits the knee-jerk reaction of, "I'm gonna get a gun," and gun owners who know the person say, "Wait, slow down; do you even know for sure that you could shoot somebody if it came to that?"

It sounds like this officer did not "have what it takes to pull the trigger," and may have been forestalling doing so because of what he perceived as the grave implications of shooting a human being. It's not a decision that everyone would make in the same amount of time. Sorry that he could not make it fast enough.

Anyone know if the officer had any history of having drawn/fired before?

-blackmind
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Old September 27, 2005, 06:23 PM   #10
rgoudy1975
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Quote:
I know it is a police officer's duty to keep everyone alive, if possible, but he took it too far and cost him his own life.
Yes, very, very sad. Lose/lose situation.
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Old September 27, 2005, 06:24 PM   #11
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Deputy Dinkheller had been "disciplined" a couple of weeks before this incident for pulling his weapon on a citizen. This is why many people familiar with this incident say he was so slow to act. I do not watch this video anymore than I have to now, since I have seen it too many times. However, every new Deputy at my agency is made to watch it, and I think every LEO should watch it. There is a lot that can be learned. May God Bless Dinkheller family.
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Old September 27, 2005, 07:07 PM   #12
23Skidoo
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I am not a trained LEO so do not know what training would suggest. But at the point of "put the gun down, sir" it seems obvious that if that doesnt look like it's going to happen very soon the next move is "BANG" on the officer's part. I sure wouldnt have convicted him seeing this tape.
A real pity.
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Old September 27, 2005, 08:01 PM   #13
gddyup
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Quote:
Deputy Dinkheller had been "disciplined" a couple of weeks before this incident for pulling his weapon on a citizen. This is why many people familiar with this incident say he was so slow to act
It's unfortunate that that had to happen prior to this altercation. That "discipline" may very well have cost him his life. It's sad to see things like that happen. Unless his prior issue was so blatant that this "discipline" was the best recourse, not to say that it wasn't because we dont know, then it's bull5hit. If he pulled his service piece before for fear of life or to protect than he should have been backed up by his superiors. It's hard enough doing that job and it's made worse by superiors' sometimes unneccesary reactions to problems that didn't exist.
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Old September 27, 2005, 08:09 PM   #14
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That guy's a scumbag and I hope he rots in jail/hell. To this day, he has never expressed any remorse for killing Dep. Dinkheller. Dep. Dinkheller left behind a wife, a kid, and a kid on the way (pregnant wife).

Unfortunately the deputy made some major mistakes that led to his death. It's easy to monday morning quarterback what happened, but it's pointless. It's a useful training video, but it would be a great one if the scumbag fell instead of the deputy.
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Old September 27, 2005, 08:19 PM   #15
branham91
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MAN that was disturbing

Hindsight is always 20 20. Once the shooter got back in his truck (after repeated pleas from the officer) I would have assumed he was getting a gun. At that point- He should have reached in his police car and grabbed a shotgun. As soon as I seen the guy with the gun I would have unloaded on his ass. THats what I think I would do. Yeah-- because I would be scared shi_less.
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Old September 27, 2005, 09:29 PM   #16
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Yep, watched this one at the academy. Talked at length about it. We did not critique this officer becuase we didn't like him, but so that we could learn from his mistakes. And allowing this man to load the firearm was his mistake. The man should have had at least 3 rounds in him once he picked up the unloaded gun.
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Old September 27, 2005, 09:34 PM   #17
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For those who can't see the video, it's much longer than you expect it to be.

The video begins with both cars stopped and the man opening his truck's door. The deputy calls out to the man and asks him to come back to the squad car. The man starts to comply but then refuses and begins to act very irrationally. The deputy tells him to get back repeatedly (about 15 times). At this point the man is literally dancing in the middle of road telling the deputy to kill him and screaming obscenities at the deputy. The deputy is still calling him "sir". "Sir, get back. Sir, get back now."

The man goes back to his truck and with the door open he reaches in and pulls out a gun. The deputy begins shouting for the man to put the gun down. He repeats the command 6 times over a period of 26 seconds while the man is apparently loading the firearm. The deputy isn't saying "sir" anymore. Interspersed in the commands to "drop the gun" or "put the gun down" are calls over the radio asking for help.

I can't tell who shoots first, but the shooting lasts for about 50 seconds with the attacker rushing and retreating a couple of times. The last time he comes up close and shoots several times while the deputy screams. Then he returns to his truck. At that point the video ends.
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Old September 27, 2005, 10:59 PM   #18
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Once you get to the point of "put the gun down" it's time to take action.
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Old September 27, 2005, 11:28 PM   #19
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Im not saying this jokingly. But does anyone have any idea what kind of gun the assailant was using?
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Old September 27, 2005, 11:50 PM   #20
JohnKSa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AMT8951
If I remember correctly, the shooter was a Vietnam (vet) and used a M1 Carbine.
The shooter states on the video he was in Vietnam so I'm inclined to believe that you do remember correctly.
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Old September 28, 2005, 01:12 AM   #21
R1145
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So, scenario time...

During the car stop, the subject exited the vehicle and refused to comply with the officer's commands. No weapon yet visible.

I probably would have peppered him when he approached me. If I was reasonably sure the vehicle was clear, I'd go hands on, but there appeared to be a passenger in the vehicle, so I'd wait for backup.

When I saw the rifle, I'd move to cover and draw, giving commands ("drop the weapon or I will shoot you"). When he failed to comply, I'd probably shoot him.

His non-compliance and subsequent brandishing of a firearm would, I believe, make me morally and legally justified in my use of lethal force. I don't think I need to wait for him to load his weapon and point it at me.

So what's the "school solution"? What other tactics are possible?

Next month, we're doing force-on-force with Simunitions, and we'll integrate this into the scenario.
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Old September 28, 2005, 11:24 AM   #22
Rob P.
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I agree that it appears that the officer probably didn't have the ability to kill even when given enough cause to do so. This is apparent when he continues to command the suspect to drop the gun up to, and even after, the shooting had started.

It is unfortunate but the abilty to take life or not is usually something that will never be known until/unless the situation actually happens. And then it's too late to change your mind and rearrange your life's plans.

What's really interesting to realize is that had the general citizenry been armed, this nut job couldn't have done what he did. It is because of the fear the gen pub has of guns, this mental defective realized that he could gain power through intimidation with a weapon. Take the fear away and you have no power to intimidate.

Betcha the officers family is vehemently anti-gun now.
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Old September 30, 2005, 05:16 PM   #23
ws6_keith
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Anyone else think a taser might have been an alternative that could have been used the first time the guy headed for the cop?
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Old September 30, 2005, 05:24 PM   #24
jcoiii
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When we talked about this shooting at the academy, I was told that the officer did use his baton on the guy off camera, when the guy attacked the officer. One hit, the guy backed off again, and went to his truck. Our rule was, if you have to use the baton, use it til the BG is subdued. (Same as shooting, ironically)
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Old October 2, 2005, 07:03 PM   #25
Ingram
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Good example of why non lethal force like tasers should also be implemented.

The man was obviously acting in a dangerous, insane, suicidal manner that would justify taser use before he even went back to his car to get a gun.

Very sad.
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