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Old October 17, 2005, 12:16 AM   #101
tinkanting
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nope, just being prepared
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Old October 24, 2005, 06:32 AM   #102
Jack Malloy
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There have been two shootings in the town I live in in the past few years.
One of them was an incident where somebody did indeed get barricaded in the bathroom by a nut with a knife. The nut got shot because somebody kept a gun in the crapper.
It can happen.
It was about this time that I started keeping my carry gun there when it was not on my person. I seldom have company at my place so there is not much worry about somebody having access to it.
Ive not had a corrossion problem yet, but then again my usual carry guns are stainless or a Glock. I generaly place it inside of a towel which seems to keep moisture from humidity from affecting it.
In regards to people's anti-gun opinions, I have noticed over the past few years a phenomenon that appears to have started in the PC world and has carried over everywhere else.
Basically, in the day and age we live in the PC types and media elites have convinced people that just becuase they have an opinion (no matter how loopy)its as valid as the facts or truth.
Unfortunately, this is hogwash.
Intelligent people have opinions that are BASED on facts. However, most peoples opinions are not based on anything other than what they WANT to beleive irregardless of the truth.
You started seeing this crap a lot first by the lefties. They would go on and on and on about what a great president CLinton was, but they could never tell you why. When you pinned em down on it, all they could say was stuff based on soundbites, which were usually baloney. No, the economy was NOT better than ever under him. He STARTED the outsourcing of jobs with NAFTA, and the Enron theives were ripping people off right and left under his watch by claiming profits they never made, ditto with other wall street hustlers. He made Haliburton and Blackwater skads of money by downsourcing the US MIlitary which meant that we had to hire private contractors to do things like basic security and transport as we just didn't have the manpower we used to and so forth....
But these people get irate when you point those facts out, because the REALITY does not jibe with their OPINION. They have been brainwashed and inculcated into thinking that their opinions are as valid as the truth or facts.
Yes, there are people who keep a gun at home for defense and get askanse at people who carry. Because they don't want to admit the truth to themselves, which is that you have just as much of a chance of being attacked at work or on the street as you do at home. They have an OPINION that you only need to worry about defense at home, because a part of their personality is too lazy or overly optimistic or whatever to go through the process of obtaining a CCW permit.
Just as their are people who have an opinion that the only arms needed are those for deer hunting. They think that because they have never rolled around in a dark alley with a mugger who is knifing them that it won't ever happen. So those who have had that unpleasant experience and who do pack are viewed askance by them.
I once dated a leftie who refused to do any routine maintenance on her automobile which became a rattling hunk of junk. Her opinion was that you should just wait till it broke down before doing anything to it. Meanwhile, last month somebody saw my 1984 Oldsmobile tootling around town. It probably has 300 thousand or more miles on it now. It had close to that when I sold it to my cousin who was a janitor for $100 bucks.

Personally, in my OPINION, the primary purpose of a gun is self defense. Im not half the man I used to be and I might not be able to fight off five guys bare handed anymore, or one guy with a shiv. I've never been attacked by skeet, and I don't view deer or wild turkey as a threat to my existance. But I can understand and respect the other shooting sports as well as the facts of modern conservation (which is that we need hunting to cull herds now that we don't have predators who do it).



>>>Many people do this. There are hunters who judge gun owners who keep guns for defensive purposes. I wouldn't be surprised if there are people who own guns for defensive purposes who are totally against hunting. There are those who own handguns but don't see the purpose for "assault rifles"or "sniper rifles". There are those who own "sniper rifles", but can see no sporting purpose in a handgun.There are those who keep a handgun in their nightstands to kill an intruder, but are shocked to find there are people who carry them outside the home.

Meanwhile, there are people who own no guns who vilify all gun owners. Is there a difference? Not much.

<<<<
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Old October 24, 2005, 06:57 AM   #103
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Jack, That was sooo .... cool! You should win, 'Post of the Month' for that one!
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Old October 24, 2005, 01:34 PM   #104
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Call me paranoid

Everytime I shower or am in the bathroom alone in the house, my Glock 37 accompanies me. I wrap it in my bath towel and lay it on the floor next to the shower. A curtain is the only thing between me and it. I live next to a questionable part of town and although I don't expect anything to happen, I would hate for my last thought to be, as the life is seeping out of me, "You mutha****er, if I'd had my G37 you'd have been dead as ****." And I always turn the bathroom lights out before I exit the door gun in hand so I can see my Meprolights clearly. Call me paranoid.
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Old October 26, 2005, 10:18 AM   #105
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Yes, it is paranoid. I suppose if someone attacks you in the shower then the paranoia served you well - but if you don't feel comfortable enough to shower without a gun in the shower with you - you either need to move, get a more secure home, or stop showering. Sorry guys but I just don't think it is possible to be 100% tactical at all times without quality of life suffering. Lets take it to another level. When I watch a movie in my home theater the volume is up enough that I can't hear little noises upstairs. Should I stop watching movies? When I play music it masks noises - should I stop listening to music? When I have sex with my girlfriend, I am both undressed (not tactical), and preoccupied - and truth be told it can get a bit loud so I might not hear little noises in the rest of the house. Should I stop having relations with my girlfriend?

You have to live life - don't let your fears or precautions make you a prisoner.

JM
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Old October 26, 2005, 10:25 AM   #106
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You folks need to get a dog. I got two wieners and they will alert me in 2 secs to any intruder. Already happened once. I was asleep with the sliding door open (nice spring day). My dogs went ballistic. I didn't pay much attention. They do this at folks walking by. Got up and my screen door was wide open.

Dogs will save your ass more times than a gun will.
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Old October 26, 2005, 10:30 AM   #107
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You folks need to get a dog
Domesticated dogs are God's home security gift to man.
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Old October 27, 2005, 03:57 PM   #108
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Paranoid?

May seem that way until the day comes your firearm is right where you need it to be. Brings to mind an old Gahan Wilson cartoon, man & wife on a street corner downtown, man holding rifle, dead elephant in front of them, and wife saying "I'll never make fun of you for carrying that elephant gun everywhere again."

I have a coworker, also a "gun person", who for a long time had tried to get me to come by his house. He lives alone in a typical 3 bedroom 2 bath place. When I finally dropped over, he started showing me around the house. As we went from room to room, he'd also show me a 1911 he'd have stashed in that particular room. After several rooms, I commented he had a lot of 45s out & about. He told me he had one in every room, because you never know which room you might be in when you suddenly need one. Might seem a little overboard to some, but the bad guys don't always creep in slowly. If they come in fast, that 45 in the spoon drawer, in the kitchen, might be just the ticket.

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Old October 27, 2005, 05:20 PM   #109
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look, I am a new poster, to this site, but I have been reading it for about 3 years now... and i have come up with some interesting deductions about some of the clientele of this site.
1) where the heck do some of you people live, that you feel that unsafe???
2) I am currently in the army in Iraq, and have been for the last 11 months... NEVER have I been so paranoid as some of you are in your own houses.... and don't think that i am in a remf job... i am an MP stationed about 20 miles outside Baghdad, and we are on the road almost every day.... yes, i am careful, and yes, i keep my eyes open, but then again, this is a war zone, not my living room! and please do not get the impression that i am saying i am not extremely cautious about what i do, or my surroundings, but never, ever in the usa have i seen anything remotely resembling what i have seen here, so i just don't see how you all could be so worried all the time!
3) i have been here for, like i said, 11 months, and i know that the level of threat here has made me extra vigilant... but the price for being so alert, beyon my usual day-to -day alertness at home is that it is VERY stressfull, and drains you of a lot of your energy! I just don't see how anyone would want to live with that level of paranoia everyday... it just seems to me it must be an aweful way to spend every day.... do you give a background check to all visitors to your house? do you screen your girlfrend/boyfriend? where do you draw the line?
so in the end, do i think it is paranoid to carry a gun to the shower.... yes. paranoid to the point of not being free. congratulations, you are a victim of yor own fears. they now control your every move and thought. and thats just sad.
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Old October 27, 2005, 05:23 PM   #110
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Old October 27, 2005, 09:20 PM   #111
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He told me he had one in every room, because you never know which room you might be in when you suddenly need one.
The only person I know who does this is a retired State Trooper. I don't follow his example, but it's certainly hard to argue that he doesn't have the experience to back up his decision...
Quote:
Originally Posted by sgtdemeo
where the heck do some of you people live, that you feel that unsafe
I don't feel unsafe. But I do like to be prepared.

As I pointed out earlier, I don't carry a gun in the shower, I started this thread after reading about a serial killer who specifically targeted people in the shower because of their vulnerability.

I think it's important to realize that people are vulnerable to criminal attack, even in the safety of their shower or bathroom. Not to live in fear as a result of that knowledge, but to make rational decisions based on reality, not on wishful thinking.
Quote:
NEVER have I been so paranoid as some of you are in your own houses
That doesn't surprise me a bit! It's not very likely that a serial killer is likely to attack you in the shower in the middle of a military installation, is it?

Ok, seriously, there's a huge gap between being paranoid versus pretending that a house offers invulnerability against criminal attack. In the same way that you wear your body armor and carry spare ammo in combat, it's important for people to realize their vulnerabilities and rationally assess what action they want to take to mitigate those vulnerabilities. Carrying in the shower is extreme--that's why I don't do it. But people have been killed/attacked in the shower and we know that criminals realize that people are more vulnerable in the shower. Therefore it's worth thinking about, at the least.
Quote:
it just seems to me it must be an aweful way to spend every day
Well, I can't speak for others, but I don't spend the entire day on alert. I have made what I consider reasonable provision for the defense of myself and my family. That means I DON'T have to be on constant alert. I can relax knowing that if things get crazy, I have provided a means to let me know of potential danger and have at hand the means to deal with threats.
Quote:
you are a victim of yor own fears. they now control your every move and thought. and thats just sad.
It would be if it were true. And I suppose it is for some. But I don't live in fear. I don't let threats control my every move. I have thought through things that might happen and have taken some precautions that I consider to be common sense. Now I don't have to worry--I can relax.

I understand your comments and you have good points. But remember, just because a person has fire extinguishers handy doesn't mean they live in constant fear of fire. In fact, just the reverse is often true.
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Old October 27, 2005, 11:38 PM   #112
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John. you have brought up some valid rationales for supporting your opinions! i especially like the quote about the fire extinguishers! i guess i just maybe got the impression that statistically speaking, most of the people who take so many precautions with their firearms, as well as most of the people in america, (including myself!) will be at a much higher risk of having a heart attack. Do the people who are so concerned about thier safety to carry in the shower take the same safety precautions against heart attack, or cancer, I.E> No smoking, plenty of excersise? (please do not confuse this with preaching, for i am a 1/2 apack a day smoker) I just am interested in the responses! I guess what i am asking is, does the "totally prepared and planned out for everything attitude" extend beyond firearms? again, thanks for the good and insightful debate!
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Old October 28, 2005, 12:00 AM   #113
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sgtdemeo ~

Here's a post I made a couple years ago, on another board. I'm posting it here in hopes that you will understand that carrying a gun all the time doesn't necessarily mean someone is the prisoner of their own fears. On the contrary, carrying a gun keeps my mind free to worry about other stuff.

Here's the post.

Quote:
The fact is, carrying a gun can be uncomfortable. The gun gets in the way of some activities, both literal and figurative. There is a constant and slightly uncomfortable awareness that the folks around me would frown upon me if they knew I had a gun under my outer clothing. Nevertheless, I continue to carry almost all day, almost every day -- and here's why.

Last week, I went to pick up two of my children from summer camp, and drop another two off at the same camp for the next session. The camp is about 3 hours from my house, in a rural area. The road we travel to get there is a two-lane highway, scenic and beautiful. And we were traveling in broad daylight.

Before I left the house, I put my gun on.

Did I expect any trouble? Nope. I just wear it as a matter of course. It's what I ordinarily do and that's what I did on this ordinary day.

After dropping one set of kids off and picking up the next set, the kids (ages 11 and 9) and I wandered down to the beach. We walked along a nearly empty boardwalk and enjoyed the sun and the crisp breeze. Yes, I still had my gun on. I didn't leave it in the car because I expected no trouble. I carried it, because that's what I always do.

Because we were enjoying ourselves, we stayed at the beach a bit longer than I had originally intended, and so it was nearly sunset before we got back in the car for the ride home. We got back in the car and I noticed the car needed fuel, so we stopped at the gas station. There were other people fueling up, and I did my standard observant glance around the station before I stepped out of the car. I did that, because that's what I always do. Filled the tank. Got back in the car ... and the car spluttered spluttered didn't want to start.

Hmph.

My sons and I push-started the cruddy little car and I mumbled a few choice comments under my breath. The car was going, sounded all right, and I was wondering ... "Now what??" The ride home was going to take about 3 hours. We'd piddled around at the beach so that it would be full dark before we got home. For various reasons, I do not own a cell phone* -- not that it would have mattered since this particular stretch of road is notorious for its lack of cell service. Was the car reliable enough to drive down the deserted stretch of road? Should I risk it? If I didn't risk it, what would I do instead? There were no service shops open in this almost nonexistent town on a Saturday night, nor were there likely to be the next day.

I know nothing about engines (hey, that's what God made mechanics for!) and had no idea what was wrong. Maybe I'd left the headlights on while we were walking the boardwalk? If so, driving awhile would take care of the problem -- and I couldn't think of any really great alternative plans.

So we started back on that empty deserted stretch of road. And of course the car died (fiddlesticks and other comments). So there I was, a woman alone with two young boys, with no cell phone, on a deserted stretch of two lane highway just as it was about to turn dark.

Was I worried? About the car, yes. But I wasn't worried about our physical safety -- I had my gun and I knew I could protect myself and my children if a predator came along.

Shortly after the car died, another car pulled over and the man driving it asked if we needed help. Was I worried? Nope, I was relieved. I didn't have to worry about him, because I knew I could protect myself if he turned out not to be the good Samaritan he appeared to be. Having the means to defend myself allowed me to be friendly and confident in talking to a stranger in what could have been dangerous circumstances. So I gave him the phone number for AAA and asked him to call them for me. He said, "All right, I'll do that -- and I'll come back and let you know what they said so you'll know if I got ahold of them okay." Nice guy.

Fifteen minutes later, the man returned, handed us three cold Cokes, and told me AAA was on the way. I thanked him profusely and the kids gave him their best grins.

An hour after that, I was still sitting on the side of the road, waiting for my tow truck. The boys and I had run out of things to talk about. I was bored, a little worried that AAA had forgotten us, and getting hungry and sleepy. Finally, the tow truck showed up -- a greasy driver who talked a mile a minute. Of course he was greasy, that's his job. But a woman alone on a deserted country road knows in her bones that the tow truck guy could be a rapist. Did I worry about that? Nope, not really. I had the means to take care of myself and my kids if I needed to. Because I was confident, I was able to be friendly and forthright.

Eventually, the whole situation worked itself out, as these things do. Nobody offered me the slightest violence and because I was confident in my ability to take care of it if they did, I was able to be outgoing and friendly rather than frightened or churlishly suspicious in dealing with other people in what I considered to be a risky situation.

And that is why I carry a gun all the time.
I keep my gun on my hip or within reach at home for all the same reasons I carry my gun in public.

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Old October 28, 2005, 12:17 AM   #114
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Yes, it is paranoid. I suppose if someone attacks you in the shower then the paranoia served you well - but if you don't feel comfortable enough to shower without a gun in the shower with you - you either need to move, get a more secure home, or stop showering.
Um, home invasions occur even in very exclusive neighborhoods, so your claim that anyone who feels the need to have a gun in the bathroom should move to where it's "safe" falls very flat. There is no place in the world where a criminal can't bring his attack. Every place is safe until a criminal attacks someone there.

Quote:
Sorry guys but I just don't think it is possible to be 100% tactical at all times without quality of life suffering.
Well, here are numerous people telling you that they feel the need to do this and they do it. Ask them if they feel that doing it has diminished their quality of life. If they say, honestly, that no it has not, then again, your assertion falls flat in the face of reality.

I carry around town and around my house, too. My quality of life is just as it would be, but better, because I also know that I have the means to protect myself better than if I didn't have the gun with me.


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Old October 28, 2005, 12:25 AM   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NB4ZOT
You folks need to get a dog. I got two wieners and they will alert me in 2 secs to any intruder. Already happened once. I was asleep with the sliding door open (nice spring day). My dogs went ballistic. I didn't pay much attention. They do this at folks walking by. Got up and my screen door was wide open.

Dogs will save your ass more times than a gun will.

Okay, so, you're in the shower, NO GUN there with you, and your ... ahem ... "wieners" start going ballistic...

What if they're doing it because someone has already busted down a door or knocked out a window, and they're on their way up through your bedroom and possibly to hear you in the shower?

Wouldn't it be a little late, then, to start scrambling for your hideout gun?

And you describe dogs that seem to cry wolf all the time. Now that they react that way even just for "folks walking by," how will you ever know if it's a genuine threat to which they are reacting?


-blackmind
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Old October 28, 2005, 12:32 AM   #116
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agree with blackmind

We live in a nice, middle-class, new neighborhood in Harris County. Some of our church friends live in VERY VERY nice, way-upper-middle-class areas in Sugarland, in Ft. Bend County. Others live in Katy and other points west. Home invasions and terrorizing of families on their driveways, people hiding around the corner of houses until somebody drives up then pistolwhipping and carjacking them IN THEIR OWN DRIVEWAYS happens out there with alarming regularity. I went out recently to the Bass Pro Shop out on I-10 west of town and was very thankful that I had my permit and therefore my gun... people get robbed and carjacked and assaulted in broad daylight.

Sadly, blackmind is right. No place is without crime. No home cannot be the target of a home invasion. Even if your life is squeaky clean and no drug lord has any reason to target you, maybe he gets your house instead of the one with the same address and appearance one block over. Or you live in Ft. Bend county, in some of the nicest and most expensive real estate outside River Oaks (the area of Houston where #41 lives), but you're not safe on your driveway.

I carry in the house, and I don't take my gun out of my skirt or pants unless I am getting in the bath or going to bed, and then it is available within reach. As a stay at home mom, I feel much safer with that on my person, alone during the day, even though we do live in a nice, neighbors-watch-out-for-one-another type neighborhood. My overinflated $.02.

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Old October 28, 2005, 12:43 AM   #117
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Sorry guys but I just don't think it is possible to be 100% tactical at all times without quality of life suffering.
And that is one of the most succint way of putting it I have ever seen.

I've had a CCW since I think 1981 (?) in such varied and sundry places as NY, NYC, Pennsylvania, Florida and Alaska. When i think of all the times I spent putting on a gun, spare mag, taking it off, locking it in trunk making sure it didjnt print, thinking about it on my hip, worrying about this, worry about that...instead of just....LIVING....

I wonder...

You can arm yourslef to the teeth, spend your whole life looking over your shoulder, carry nine guns and wear body armor, alarm your house, spend thousands of dollars on tactical schools...

And when the big guy calls your number...

Your going.....nothing is gonna stop it.

And think of all you missed.

I think that its typical of humans though....we tend to think that we, either individually or as a species, mean something...that we can somehow make a difference...that by our actions we can stop the march of time and nature and fate,,,,guess its our way of trying to conquer the fear of inevitable death,

Aint gonna happen. And when we are gone, the world will spin very nicely without us until the sun goes out

Now me, Im gonna take a shower, soap up, and not worry about the boogey man. if he doenst get me, something someday will

WildguessitsphilosophytimeAlaska
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Old October 28, 2005, 07:35 AM   #118
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blackmind

OK then get a Rotty or Doberman. Problem solved.

Most (if not all) would be intruders want nothing to do with a barking dog. I feel fine with my wieners to hold down the fort while I take my 4min shower.
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Old October 28, 2005, 08:23 AM   #119
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I don't usually wear a gun when sitting around the house, but by Crom, I keep one handy, usually close to where I am at.
You never know when trouble might come a callin'.
My next door neighbor got robbed in broad daylight not long ago and we live 60 feet from the front door of a police station. His wife is now terrified that somebody might break in again, this time, when she is at home.

I would say that many people who keep a small arsenal of guns handy across a house do so, simply because they have several guns and don't keep them all in storage.
Up till the robbery, I kept half my stash of arms at home, figuring that way if the place where I stored the rest got burned down, I would still have half of them safe. After the robbery, I just put most of them into storage....

>>>he'd also show me a 1911 he'd have stashed in that particular room. After several rooms, I commented he had a lot of 45s out & about. He told me he had one in every room, because you never know which room you might be in when you suddenly need one. Might seem a little overboard to some, but the bad guys don't always creep in slowly. If they come in fast, that 45 in the spoon drawer, in the kitchen, might be just the ticket.
<<<<

LOL...That reminds me of the movie "The Punisher" where Thomas Jane had a .357 set up to pop out of a drawer in his kitchen. Of course, Kevin Nash mangled it with a big dumbell......
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Old October 28, 2005, 12:10 PM   #120
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There are some who only look one way before crossing a one-way street. Sure, the odds of someone driving the wrong way on the street at that same time you are crossing are unlikely, but there's nothing wrong with being prepared and checking both directions.

It's all a matter of how one looks at the odds. The odds of some events may be very, very small, but some people say to themselves that they refuse to be a part of that unlikely but possible statistic.


WildAlaska,

Interesting point, but I personally don't believe in fate. I don't believe that my time is up when my time is up. I want to die of old age. Either that, or doing something I love. Not by the hands of some scumbag.

I will do everything I can to keep myself alive for as long as I can. It obviously works differently if you believe in fate, or believe that your time of death is pre-determined.
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Old October 28, 2005, 12:38 PM   #121
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Quote:
I don't believe that my time is up when my time is up.
Then you dont beleive in the immutable laws of the universe

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Old October 28, 2005, 01:37 PM   #122
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WildAlaska ~

My sig.

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Old October 28, 2005, 02:15 PM   #123
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What people commonly call fate is mostly their own stupidity. -- Arthur Schopenhauer
Trite quotes from a two bit philosopher dont change the laws of nature or physics.

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Old October 28, 2005, 02:29 PM   #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WildAlaska
I've had a CCW since I think 1981 (?) in such varied and sundry places as NY, NYC, Pennsylvania, Florida and Alaska. When i think of all the times I spent putting on a gun, spare mag, taking it off, locking it in trunk making sure it didjnt print, thinking about it on my hip, worrying about this, worry about that...instead of just....LIVING....

I wonder...

You can arm yourslef to the teeth, spend your whole life looking over your shoulder, carry nine guns and wear body armor, alarm your house, spend thousands of dollars on tactical schools...

And when the big guy calls your number...

Your going.....nothing is gonna stop it.
Some people enjoy spending all their time doing that, though, which is cool in my book. Being tactical can be an excellent source of entertainment for oneself. I mean, if people hated doing it, they wouldn't... would they? There has to be some appeal in it.

I think it's possible to live, have other hobbies, train to draw and shoot well, and carry without having to worry about it. For me, being tactical does not necessitate walking around in stage 3 body armor, it's more of a daily process of making judgment calls that are safe and smart, and this is reinforced until it becomes second nature. The quality of my life has not suffered from this. There's no questioning that we're all gonna go someday, and that we only have a certain measure of control over our own fate, which diminishes continually with the passage of time. That said, I think that if people want to indulge themselves in the most tactical behavior possible, then go for it. It has the bonus of being much more than a mere indulgence in terms of practicality, which is more than can be said for many popular past-times.
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Old October 28, 2005, 04:36 PM   #125
tuckerdog1
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Join Date: September 20, 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 258
Paranoid? Not at all.

Sgtdemeo, I think JohnKSa summed it up pretty well. Being prepared is not necessarily the same as being paranoid. Life's little experiences help one set their own limits about how being prepared is defined. I've always lived in what I'd call middle to maybe slightly upper middle class neighborhoods. My parents have had their home broken into 4 times. When my brother was younger, he worked at an 24 hr gas station. He was paraded around the place with a gun to his head, continually threatened with murder, while the place & he were robbed. I worked at another store, and was robbed at gunpoint. Was forced to lie face down behind the counter after the $$ was turned over. I just knew it was execution time. You can't imagine the relief when I heard the door open & the POS depart. At 0300 in the AM, I once had a pounding at my front door. I was angry that it might be a friend of mine, who is an alcoholic. It turned out to be a rape victim. She had been going door to door trying to get help. Nobody would answer their door to a stranger at that hour. I was willing because I had a gun in my pocket. A friend that lived 2 blocks away couldn't back her car out of the driveway to go to work one morning, because there was a murder victim in her driveway. Now these kind of things don't happen all the time. This was over a 30 year period. But crime does reach out & touch. And after getting a 2nd chance, after not being headshot during the store robbery, I promised myself I wouldn't be so easily put in that situation again.
I don't keep a gun in every room, like my co-worker. But I have 4 around the house, and one of those 4 is in the bathroom.
I also keep a fire extinguisher in each car, two in the kitchen, one in the garage & two in my shop.

I sleep like a baby.

Tuckerdog1
__________________
Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the
black flag, and begin slitting throats. - Henry Louis Mencken

Last edited by tuckerdog1; October 28, 2005 at 05:07 PM.
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