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Old November 4, 2005, 10:18 PM   #126
Old Dragoon
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That stain is reminiscent of Hacker Martin's stain, which also rust blued. I used that almost exclusively 30 years ago when i was building ML rifles. That is in Fox Fire book 5 or is it 6, the one about making Muzzleloading rifles. it is a great source of good gunsmithing info . I have lost my copy and need to replace it.

I remember the rust blue recipe as having HCL (hydrocloric Acid), Blue vitriole, copper sulfate, alcohol, water and the steel wool. You have to be careful with the HCL and water and I forget which goes into which without explodingit was also the stain for curly maple.

Can all the ingerdients still be purchased? I was under the impression that they could not be purchased without a license now. I bought all mine from a druggist I knew, A fellow buckskinner type.

I copied all the recipes posted here too. Great info!! this site rocks!


ALL.
My Kirst Converter in 44 Cal came today...in a word FANTASTIC!

It is 44 Colt, so I will turn my 44 Rem mag case rims down a bit to fit...being in the "PUT AS MUCH POWDER IN THERE AS POSSIBLE" club. I might have to invest in some 44 standard cases and cut them to length, so the tip of the bullet is just 1/16 or less from the end of the cylinder, and maybe have to trim the rim dia too. now way can I get 40 grains BP in the longest case, but it'll be close.

This Kirst Konverter is a true drop in this 2005 Pietta......... If you read the instructions first (who does that, Huh? who?) I didn't have much of a problem before reading the instructions, but being a man I thought who needs them, Well that may be true, but when put on half cock it slides right in(and out) with ease. The original BP cylinder will not come out on half cock, so I thought this would not slide in that way either. I was wrong. It indexed right out of the box and now is easily taken out and put back in. I like it! It is not ported or gated. I can port the frame and the recoil shield, but i will think about this before I do it. Form fit and function , is great.

Now...do I really want to take all the pretty blue off and antique it?.....I'll let you know.
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Old November 4, 2005, 10:29 PM   #127
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dragoon,
do they make that conversion in .45 long colt also?i have looked at the r&d but i havent decided if i wanted one or not,i really like shooting them w/bp.although i do reload my own 45's and i have used 35 grns of 777 with wads to fill the empty space and they are a hoot to shoot.there is a chart for bp loading with 777 on hogdon's web site.its pretty cool.
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Old November 4, 2005, 11:04 PM   #128
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Yes they sure do!

I opted for the 44 because that is the one of first CF (44RF and 46RF were first i bellieve) cartridge that the Remington was converted to. 44 CF. Kirst makes a fine product. River Junction sells them. Check it out here

http://www.riverjunction.com/kirst/konverter3.html

I reload 44 Colt, 44 Rem Mag, or at least I did. I still have thousands of the 44 Colt brass and the same in once fired 44 Rem Brass. 44 colt Cowboy loads has a .431 dia bullet for the modern 44 Colt. The Remingtons and the old 44's were. 451 Dia.. I load BP in the cartridges and use a .451 ball. and I will use the 44 Rem bullets from River Junction when they become available(I talked to Jim today and he doesn't have them yet). He does sell the 44 heeled bullet cartridges in 50 count boxes( I ordered two boxes and they should be here Monday) for this Konverter, which I now know must use 44 Colt brass. I have a .451 heeled bullet mold from Rapine, but it is a dual cavity, and it is a dirty, long, hot job to cast bullets, I have cast thousands and thousands of round balls in my buckskinning days.

I want a longer case and will modify the rims of 44 Rem Mag or possibly 44 standard from Buffalo Arms to custom make the case length to place the tip of the bullet 1/16 below the chamber mouth. I really like my Konverter and it easily drops in and slides out. I like it as it has only one firing pin and the index flat on the bottom.

The 45LC is their staple Konverter. I just opted for an original cal.
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Old November 5, 2005, 12:45 AM   #129
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i have cast my share of bp bullets myself.i have had the sigle cavity lee conical mold for some time now ans just got a lee hollow point mold for my ruger.these bullets from both molds shoot great and on target.our bp season for deer starts in the morning and i will have my ruger on my side.its new so i have to break it in.lol.my stainless 58 has made many trips to the woods with me over the years with success.i think as far as the converter i'd have to go with the .45.im still trying to make up my mind if im going to get one,i already have a vaqero in 45 long colt.
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Old November 5, 2005, 07:32 AM   #130
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Old Dragoon, Don't know if you can still get what you need or not. It wasn't a problem back when I was a pup The last stuff I used came from Brownell in a small bottle and it works great!
Glad to hear your cylinder is working out for you. Guess I'm just to stuborn to use one in my Remmy. Maybe one of these days I'll try it just for the heck of it. Mike
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Old November 5, 2005, 10:30 AM   #131
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MPP1423, yes, that accessory pouch is from scratch, too. I can carry 24 of the vinyl quick-load tubes, an in-line capper and a container of lube in there. I have a divider down the middle to segregate empty tubes from loaded ones. If I am going out for a shooting session, I carry a pistol box with enough stuff inside to probably do an appendectomy if it was necessary but the belt, holster and pouch is my hunting rig. I have $19.00 in the whole thing, bought the leather at a shop from their reduced/scrap pile.

Those vinyl tubes work pretty good. They are only open on one end so when you pour your powder charge in, the ball seals the opening. You can squeeze the ball down onto the powder by pinching the tube opening behind the ball and it fits tightly enough that it doesn't work out until you want it to. Although I haven't tested it, I bet you could actually immerse them without wetting the powder. That is a test for some other time which I'll let you know about. ( What the heck, I just dropped 3 of them into a glass of water. I'll post results in two or three days)

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Old November 6, 2005, 03:02 PM   #132
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Steve, I just ordered some of the plastic tubes the other day . Mp1423 was telling me how much he liked his. Hope they keep the powder dry.
I have two cylinders for each of my Remingtons and a cylinder pouch that goes on my belt. Most of the time I wrap the spare cylinder with Saran wrap before placing it in the pouch. Never had a problem in rain or hot hummid days but I though it would be great to load a bunch of the tubes so that when your in a hurry to load you don't have to measure each one.
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Old November 6, 2005, 04:35 PM   #133
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Cap and Ball in the rain.......

An old trick taught to be by an old Buckskinner. Clear nail polish around the base(forward rim) of the cap on the nipple will not allow moisture in, even in the driving rain.

Also for you Flinters out there, the same works around the inside rim of the frizzen. also beeswax around the rim (inside), close the frizzen and VOILA! rainproof smokepole. Works very well.
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Old November 6, 2005, 04:50 PM   #134
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Hey Mike,you'll Love Them.ive Already Used Mind Many Times And They Work Like A Champ.

Steve,that Pouch Is Sharp! Mine Is Just A Civil War Type Pistol Pouch.it Works Great But I Do Wish It Was Divided.but I Can Get About 30 Reloads With A Little Room Left.the Problem Im Having Is Finding Pouches That Will Fit My 2 1/2" Belt.most Only Fit 2".and Your Right About These Reloads,i Bought Some A While Back And They Are Awesome.guess We've Talked Mike Into Getting Some Too.what About It Mike?lol.
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Old November 6, 2005, 06:21 PM   #135
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Steve, The way you stitched that pouch really looks solid. You have alott more patience than I do , It really looks great!


Old Dragoon , Good ideas for sure! Hunted Elk in Colorado years ago and it rained and snow every day! We placed condoms over the muzzle of the barrel to help keep condensation out. Absolutely a miserable 10 day hunt but I was young and 10' tall and bullet proof

Kevin, Got some ordered form Dixie.
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Old November 6, 2005, 11:36 PM   #136
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Well, I just took those plastic tubes out of the glass of water. They were totally submerged for over 24 hours. The powder in one was totally dry. The other two had a very thin clump on the top of the powder charge where the ball had compressed it. The clump came apart when I poured the charge out so I'm not sure if it was moisture for sure, you couldn't feel any. If I lived on a mountain in W.VA. or out in the boonies in TN. like SOME people around here, I'd have just stepped to the door and then I could report if there was a report. I think, though, for practical purposes the tubes are amply waterproof to use for hunting.

About sealing the caps with beeswax, I had an old Italian brass framed .44 made like a Colt navy I traded for in 1971. I shot it a lot when I was younger and had lower standards for the accuracy of my firearms. That one had a bore that was tight, loose, tight when you ran a patch down it. The thing was terribly inaccurate but still a heck of a lot of fun , especially since it was my only percussion revolver. Anyway, I got guns that shot better and stopped using that one. In 1994, I loaded it and melted beeswax around the caps and on top of the balls. I was going to carry it during muzzle loading deer season just to finish off a cripple, maybe, but didn't need to and didn't fire it. I put off taking it out to shoot it empty and after a year or so, I thought I had a test well started and decided to just leave it loaded for a while longer. This summer, 11 years later, I fired two chambers. No hangfires either. There are still four more chambers loaded and sealed with beeswax if my youngest daughter hasn't shot them. (I gave the gun to her, she liked it and is into the whole shooting thing) I had always worried about leaving a BP gun of any persuasion loaded for long, but if you clean with rubbing alcohol,warm the cylinder to dry it, then seal with beeswax after it's loaded, you've got at least 11 years!

It still didn't shoot worth a darn.



Steve
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Old November 7, 2005, 12:13 AM   #137
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On porting a '58 Remington and draw filing the bbl and frame

Well I spent the whole afternoon porting my '58 Remington for my Kirst Converter, will port the Recoil shield tomorrow. When I got done with the loading port I decided what the heck, I'll draw file the bbl and the frame too.
Praise the Lord for tapered bbl's, they are much easier to drawfile than a straight bbl.

I got the Birchwood Casey blue remover and some Plum Brown......Yep I'm going to antique it. Will post pictures when I'm done. right now it looks like a mess, but I know how it'll look when I'm done. It'll be the first browing/antiqueing I've done in over 30 years. Bout time Huh?

Hand cutting the loading port with rat tail files is a job, but it works so well with the new cylinder that I'm quite proud of myself. Now to port the recoil sheild that comes with the Kirst Konverter. Kirst's instruction and port templates are a bit too big a dia. for a 44, so I modified it to just pass a 44 Colt bullet with a little to spare. When I unload and turn the cylinder the cartridges pass easily back out thru the port. When the Recoil is ported the timing of the cylinder keeps the bullets in the cylinder and after the first shot they all swell in the cylinder anyway, according to Mr. Kirst. There will be no gate on this port.

I'm so jazzed about this that I might spend the bucks for Kirst's ejector too.
$99.00 for the cylinder pin and ejector is a bit steep. We'll see how easy the spent shells come out, then make the figure it out.

Also I trimmed down the rims on some 44 Rem Mag brass yesterday and they fit really well with a .451 ball, to get just that much more powder in the brass. I do not think I can get 40 grains in the cartridges, 35-37 may be tops unless I can get some 44 basic brass and trim them back

OK Mike I'll still shoot it Cap and Ball sometimes.
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Old November 7, 2005, 06:07 AM   #138
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Quote:
Yep I'm going to antique it. Will post pictures when I'm done. right now it looks like a mess, but I know how it'll look when I'm done.
When I started stripping the blue off my new 1858 it didn't come off evenly like I expected, it was patchy and after the first coat of blue remover I had the intention to strip the gun to metal and put a thin blue coat on and steel wool it down some, but when I got the second coat of blue remover on the gun and ran the steel wool over it afterwards, the finish was so beautiful that I just left it that way! At first mine was a mess and I thought I had let myself in for more work than I intended but it turned out great.
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Old November 10, 2005, 09:29 AM   #139
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Has anyone heard anything from MPP1423 (Kevin) ? Hope that boy didn't try to take on some 6'6" #300 gangster.
Just wanted to let him know that Don Holmans web site is back up. That guy has some of the nicest grips I have seen and at prices that don't cost an arm and a legg. If he don't have what you want he'll make it for you. Beautiful gun belt leather too! Mike
http://www.westernandwildlifewonders.com/wwlw/
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Old November 10, 2005, 10:21 AM   #140
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Well, if he did take one like that on, it's a lock that the bad guy is hating life about now!

A short update on my soaked vinyl tubes mentioned earlier in the thread. After pouring the powder out when I initially checked for moisture I put it right back into the tube and put the ball back in, too. Whatever state the powder was in should have been maintained. I loaded and shot them the other day. I couldn't tell any difference in the powder consistancy, not clumped up or anything. The three chambers those loads were in fired without any hanging fire but were definately less powerful than the same charge in the other three chambers. Just a guess but it felt like about a 15-20 grain charge instead of the 30 grains it was. Apparently total immersion for 24 hours results in some wetting of the powder but doesn't make it totally inert.

Steve
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Old November 10, 2005, 11:04 AM   #141
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Hey Mike,im Still Here.i've Been Out Of Town On A Hunting Trip.you Aint Going To Beleive This One.lol.well,maybe You Will.i Took A Big Doe With My Smoke Pole And While I Was Field Dressing Her And The Rib Cage ,proped Open With This Fancy Spreader I Bought,my Pretty Ruger Old Army Fell Out Of My Slim Jim Holster Into The Poole Of Blood Inside The Cavity.what A Mess.if It Can Happen It Will Happen To Me.lol.my Buddy Couldnt Help Cause He Was Too Busy Rolling On The Ground In Laughter.wont Happen Again Though Cause I Put A Leather Thong Over The Hammer Like My Western Rig.SO MIKE,ARE YOU GETTING SOME GRIPS FROM DON?YOU'LL LOVE THEM.
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Old November 10, 2005, 12:55 PM   #142
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Kevin, Glad you one! Getting that Ruger bloody was just all part of the tradtion of the Tenn. wild men. That's what I would have told your buddy,Lol.
Now we need pics! I'm going to contact Don and see what he would charge me to scrimshaw a black bear head on one of the old ivory grips for my Remington.


Steve, Good report on the powder tubes. I got mine but haven't had a chance to play with them . To many irons in the fire and having a few health problems.
I know that years ago when dynimite got wet the old minors would just lay it around the camp fire to dry out but the problem was that as it dried it would get a white coating on it and that was nitro., Lol. They said it was really still good just very unstable.
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Old November 10, 2005, 02:13 PM   #143
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Mike, I checked out the website from the link and they have some nice stuff dont' they? I kinda like the white stag grips for the outlaw in the custom single action section, do you think those would fit my 58? The general shape looks the same, but eyeballing measurments always gets me in trouble.
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Old November 10, 2005, 02:21 PM   #144
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Low Key, You may want to ask Kevin that question. He's the one who has been dealing with Don and the old ivory grips on his 1858's came from him.He would know which ones you need to order. It seems to me that Kevin said Don sends the grips to you over sized so you can make a perfect fit yourself.
I also believe you can send in your frame and he will custom fit them for you. Mike
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Old November 10, 2005, 02:59 PM   #145
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Low Key,what Ya Need To Do Is Make A Tracing Of Your Grips On Like A Nila Folder.make Sure To Be Exact! Don Will Match Your Tracing Will His Molds,and He Has 100's,to Make Sure You Get The Right Ones.mine Did Come A Little Over Sized And So I Had To Fit Them But Don Sends Real Good Instructions On How To Do It.hell,if I Can Do It You Damn Sure Can.lol.don Is Great To Work With.just Give Him A Call And He Can Most Likely Help You On The Phone But You Still Need The Tracing.i Love Mine.i Posted Pic's In One Of The Threads But I Dont Remember Which One.i'll Try To Post Them Here.
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Old November 10, 2005, 03:00 PM   #146
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[IMG][/IMG]
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Old November 10, 2005, 03:01 PM   #147
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Ok,its A Little Large But You Can See The Grips Better Anyway.
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Old November 10, 2005, 03:21 PM   #148
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Thanks for the info Kevin! If I decide to order anything I'll do that tracing and contact Don about the fitting.
Heres something I learned about the pic size, if you open your pic with microsoft Paint and click image then stretch/skew and change the horizontal and vertical to 50% each your image will be much better sized for posting. You can play with the %'s until you get an file size between 25 and 75kb for a jpeg image and they post really good on these threads. Save your pic under a different file name if you want to preserve the original.
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Old November 10, 2005, 09:11 PM   #149
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oook,what you said!lol.low key,im not a computer wiz at all.im not real sure what you just told me.lol.i had this computer for about 4 yrs now and i still have not got the hang of all there is to know.got help me when we get them in our patrol cars.they said we are getting them real soon.i'll have to get one of the crooks to show me how to use it.lol
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Old November 10, 2005, 09:35 PM   #150
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I'm glad I missed the whole computer in the car thing. Kevin, have you ever thought about how folks go on and on about how unsafe it is to talk on a cell phone while driving but don't think there's a thing wrong with expecting a cop to drive in pursuit one-handed while yelling into the radio mike with the other? And now computer terminals! I know we had radio operators (they didn't like to be called dispatchers) who wouldn't hardly answer a lot of the time anyway. If those guys knew you had a terminal in the car with you they would expect you to run everything yourself regardless of the situation. I haven't 'bonded' with the computer. I can do stuff if I have step by step directions, otherwise I just kinda lock up. Good thing you're still young and flexible!


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