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Old September 20, 2005, 04:51 AM   #1
Low Key
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triple 7...

In my 1858 Remington I generally use 25gr of 777 for a target load and get good accuracy from that. When I get out into the woods I like to carry the remmy with me and I have been using a 30gr powder charge but what is the max safe charge you could load with 777? I want something that hits hard but won't blow the pistol up in my hand,
Thanks for any info!
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Old October 23, 2005, 08:20 PM   #2
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Don't exceed 30
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Old October 23, 2005, 11:28 PM   #3
MPP1423
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I Use 35-40grns Of 777 In Mine For Hunting With No Problems As Of Yet.this Is In My Stainless Model That I Have Owned Now For 12 Yrs.
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Old October 25, 2005, 12:22 PM   #4
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I'm sure that MP1423 can tell you more about it than I can because I have only used Goex for my C&B revolvers.
I use 38g of fffg, a wonder wad and a .454 ball for hunting and have never had a problem. Useing a little grease over the ball helps to keep things running smooth. 30-35g. loaded the same way is great for target.
I have loaded 40g with no wad and just grease over the ball and had no problems.
So many people really underestimate the power of these 1858 Remingtons or any C&B for that matter. Some believe they are no more powerfull than a .38 special. Olease believe me that statement is just not true at all.A .38 special or a .38+P will not even come close to what these guns can do.
I'm reading a book now and the author has stated that he witnessed a man shot with an 1858 .44 Remington. The ball went through the mans stomach and glanced off a table and went through a cabinet door and was found later loadged in a loaf of bread. If it wasn't for fast medical help the man never would have lived and he was a long time healing.
Another guy shot a bore at 25-30 yards and when the smoked cleared the bore lay dead on the ground right where it was shot. The ball entered behind the shoulder and traveled up the neck and exited the opposite side.
I have taken 4 deer and only one went past 40 yards. Turkey drop where there hit,
It's my understanding that 777 is a little stronger than Goex fffg but it's about even with the french powder.
If you use 30g. of Goex fffg and you switch to 777 then you would use 25g to equal the 30g of fffg. That's only what I have read and have been told. If you use 30g of 777 for a hunting load you should be good to go.
I would have to up mine a little just like maybe 38g. but that's just me and I have never been acused of having all my marbles , Mike

PS. No offense MPP1423,
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Old October 25, 2005, 12:52 PM   #5
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none taken,hell i have to go out on a limb sometimes.i started loading with 40 grs of 777 with a wad sometime ago and it has not let me down yet.now i dont think i'd use this load at the range all day but for hunting its great and man does it bark!lol.
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Old October 25, 2005, 05:20 PM   #6
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Do you guy's find the fouling allot less with the 777? I mean. do you still have to use grease on the cylinder pins to keep the cylinders spinning between loads? How about the barrel fouling and cleaning? Guess I'm gonna have to break down and try some of this "phony powder" Tried to find some of the new Pinical but no one has it yet around here. It loads and acts the same as Goex fffg but with less fouling than 777 or pyrodex acording to the artical I read on it.

MPP1423, You would be surprised at how many 58 experts say you can't get more than 35g in a .44 Remington and that they can only get 35g if they don't use a wad. I have to wonder what kind of 1858 Remington .44 do they have
A guy on one site was telling another about how if he loads his with 35g of fffg and fire comes out the end of the barrel and he can hardly control it and how inacurate it is with that much powder,Lol. Then he goes on to tell him to never use that much powder in that gun or it may blow up.
The more I read some of this stuff the more I wonder if these guy's really own a Remington or if they have ever shot one.
Had one guy tell people that they were no good for hunting because they lack the power and no penitration, Lol. That one really got me!
I have owned and shot two Remingtons and and one Army and one Navy for many years and I know what they will do and how much powder they can take and handel. Well, we know how to have fun with them, Thats what counts, Mike
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Old October 25, 2005, 09:21 PM   #7
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Im With Ya Mike.i Have Three Now And My Stainless Has Been With Me For 12 Yrs Now.40 Grs Is No Problem.mine Is In The 451 Cal I Beleive You Spoke Of Yours Being In .454.im No Expert By Far But These Guns Are Hunter Friendly.lol.i Have Taken Deer With Mine With No Problems.i Just Purchased A Ruger Old Army And It Should Be Here In A Few Days.i Have Posted On This Forum For Some Load Info On These Guns But Not Answers Yet.
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Old October 25, 2005, 09:33 PM   #8
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Mike,you Need To At Least Try The 777.its Awesome.it Has About 10 % More Power Than The Others And Cleans With Hot Water In A Snap.i Know ,you Like The Real Powder And Thats Well Ok But Just Give It A Try.its Still Just As Fun And Has The Smoke To Go With It Just Not The Gummimg Affect As The Others.i Use The Ff Not The Fff.why? Im Not Sure.lol.its Just What I Started Out With In The 777 So I Havent Changed.but It Hot.
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Old October 26, 2005, 06:58 AM   #9
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MPP1423, Now you gone and done it!! My little pee picken brain will be fighting with itself over what powder to choose in the 777 to try out.
I will most likely go with the fff to start out with or...... maybe the ff, ....see what you did!!!! Mike
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Old October 26, 2005, 07:24 AM   #10
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lol,trust me you'll love it.im not sure if there is a big difference between ff and fff with the 777.i guess it might would be but i've been using the ff so long now thats what im going to stay with.thats what is funny about guys saying you cant get 40 grs of powder in these guns,hell im using the ff and i can get it in there with no problems.like i said ,i wouldnt shoot this all day at the range but its a great hunting load.
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Old October 26, 2005, 10:36 AM   #11
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Kevin, Never had a problem loading my 58 with 40g of Goex fffg, a wad and a .454 ball. It leaves just enough room to get a smear of grease on top of the ball and a good amount around the edges.As for accuracy I can shoot a soft ball off hand at 30 yards and that aint bad for me or my gun for hunting. Im not saying I can do it all the time but on days that I have a steady hand From a bench or rest Im sure it would be much tighter.
When you place the powder in and the wad on top it looks like there is only 1/8" left for the ball but most people don't seem to take in to acount that when you pour powder in the chamber it's like pouring feathers in a bag.It would fill up very quickly unless you pushed the feathers down or compressed them.The wad also is just soft felt and will also compress.
It makes me wonder how many people are shooting there guns without compressing or at least not enough compressing and they are leaving an air space between the powder and the ball? Very bad thing to do to your gun and you
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Old October 26, 2005, 10:53 AM   #12
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Quote:
Do you guy's find the fouling allot less with the 777? I mean. do you still have to use grease on the cylinder pins to keep the cylinders spinning between loads? How about the barrel fouling and cleaning?
I don't get much fouling at all from the 777 and it will wash with plain water much better than I expected, but I still add some soap to the wash just for good measure. I originally tried pyrodex and it was NASTY...loads of fouling, so I don't recommend it as a sub for blackpowder. I had been using bore butter on the cylinder pin but that hasn't worked out very well, (the first shot blows all my lube right off the gun), so I'm switching to lithium grease to see how that works for keeping the cylinder rotating smoothly.

BTW, I have a new Rem 1858 on order and it's scheduled to deliver tomorrow. I'll post a pic before the end of the week.
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Old October 26, 2005, 03:01 PM   #13
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Mike,
Your Right About The Compression.i Load My Charge Then A Wad.then I Seat The Wad Before Seating The Bullet.this Makes Sure The Bullet Gets Seated Properly And The Wad Doesnt Get In The Way.mine Is Also Very Accurate At 30 Yrds.the Round Balls Are Not As Much As My Own Cast Bullets But Good Enough To Plink Around With.i Try Not To Shoot Too Many Of My Cast For Plinking Because They Take Awhile To Cast.i'll Do About 100 Then Do Some More Later.i Try To Save At Least 50 Of Those For The Field.lots Of Fun Casting My Own Though And Man,what A Difference In Power .you Can Tell The Difference Between Balls And My Own.

Low Key,
Im With Ya On 777.its The Best,if We Can Just Talk Remington Into Trying It Now.lol.just Ragin Ya Mike.i Use A Black Grease Called Gun Slick On My Cylinder Pin.it Rotates Fine ,i Just Have Problems Getting It Out When Its Time To Change Cylinders Or Clean But Mike Gave Me A Tip On This I Just Havent Had The Time To Do It Yet.
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Old October 26, 2005, 05:50 PM   #14
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Low Key, Hope you don't mind our postings here on your thread about other loads but it seems we are all on the same track here...We love our Remingtons. With that being said thought I would ask another question here of other fellow Remington shooters:
here in WV we have plenty of snakes and some big one's and mean suckers! The green timber rattlers would rather fight than run and they don't always rattle. They just like to sink there fangs in your leg or whatever else you have too close. The Cooperheads just lay there and wait on you to get close enough.
Over the years I have taken many of them with club and gun but nothing is better than blowing there head off at 5 yards with a .44 ball
I have also loaded the first chamber with powder and shot and that works great too! But there's just something about hitting the devil in the head with that ball that turns me on. I don't always make a perfect shot on them but most of the time I hit them well enough to take them out . How many of you take these suckers out too? Do you like the shot loads or just the ball? Wonder how many soldier and cowboy took care of them critters the same way? Mike
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Old October 26, 2005, 07:27 PM   #15
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You guys aren't hijacking my thread, lol, and we really are all on the same track. As far as snakes go, I shot one last Sunday night. My wife and I had been watching the sunset out in the yard and as we were walking back to the house I spotted a copperhead under the front porch. I guided my wife in the other direction with a gentle shove and jumped up on the porch above the snake, I had my wife to rattle a stick on the ground behind the snake and as it came out...BOOM! Snake with no head, smoking 1858 in my hand, and a 8inch deep hole in the ground. I haven't tried your shot load out yet, but I've plans to see how it works on a milk jug at close range

I've got a question for you too, I've got a new 1858 coming by UPS tomorrow and I'd like to dull the bluing down on it. I like the shiny new look, but I'd like to make this pistol look well worn, like it's been in and out of the holster a lot. I don't really want to take off all the blue, but just to tone it down to sort of a greyer look. How would you suggest doing this? 0000 steel wool? Soak in vinegar to remove some blueing?

MPP1423...I read about mikes trick of camfering the cylinder ends and I've done that to mine, but I haven't had time to shoot 3-4 cylinders through it yet to see how well it works. I'll be shooting this weekend so I'll let you know how it goes.
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Old October 26, 2005, 07:56 PM   #16
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Low Key, Most of the originals have very little to no blueing on them but they have a slight rust brown color. It's the start of the old rust blueing.
One thing that will remove the blueing the fastest and the "bestest" is simply called blue remover by Birchwood Casey, it will take it off right now with just a cotton swab. It takes a few coats to do it so once or twice would give you the results you are looking for. Wal Mart or most gun shops sell the stuff.
Did you buy a Pietta or an Uberti? The reason im asking is that I was told that Pietta installed all new machinery about a year ago to build there guns and they are turning out a top quality gun right out the door. Just wondering if it's true or not.To me part of the fun is polishing the action and smoothing things up. Lot's of little tricks to make it run like it's all running on ball bearings, I have a little air conditioned and heated workshop out back and spend allot of time in there on my guns and bows and carvings.Play with my guns more than anything.My wife calls it my dog house
Anyone who likes the Remingtons and wants some good advice on tuning and how to do it should get the book called "Home Hobby Gunsmithing" It has a whole section on doing the 1858 with great pictures and easy to understand format. Got mine at Amazon .com a long time ago.
There are a few tricks they don't have in there that were shown to me years ago by an old gunsmith cowboy shooter. But the books is a must for anyone wanting to do there own tunning of these Rems.
Let me know how things look with your new Remington. It's been a while since I bought one. Good reason too....My wife has the check book and the credit cards Mike
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Old October 26, 2005, 08:17 PM   #17
Remington kid
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Low Key, Here is one of my Remingtons that I antiqued. Now I need the yellow looking ivory grips. The original is on top and mine is on the bottom.
[IMG][/IMG]
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Old October 27, 2005, 01:27 AM   #18
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I Have Tried The Shot As Well.its A Hoot.i Cant Say I Have Used It On A Snake But I'll Have To Wait For Late Spring Anyway Here.im In Nashville,tn And Its Cooling Off Here.right Now Its 38 And The Highs In The 60's So The Snakes Aint Moving Anymore Here.mike,im Going To Get One Of Those Books You Told Me About But Again I Just Havent Had The Time.im A Police Officer In Nashville So With 10 Hour Work Days And Extra Jobs I Stay Real Busy.but I Always Find Time To Shoot My Rem's.hell,it Shoots Better Than My Glock .40 I Carry On Duty.lol.could Yall See Me Going To Work One Night Toting My 58.lol.well,i Would Be A Little Out Gunned In Todays Times Plus Im In The Projects A Lot So I Want Lots Of Bullets.lol.
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Old October 27, 2005, 01:43 AM   #19
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Hey Mike,just Bought One Of Those Gun Smith Books You Told Me About On Amazon.com.guess It Will Be Here In A Few Days,cant Wait!by The Way Nice 58 You Have.
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Old October 27, 2005, 07:51 AM   #20
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Low Key, Take out your cylinder pin and take a close look at it and you will see it's kind of rough and not finished or polished at all.
Get some good metal sand paper and go to work on those ridges and bumps. Don't take to much, just enough to take off the sharp edges.The fouling catches in these grooves and makes it harder for the cylinder to turn.
You also want to stone the star ridges on the nipple side of the cylinder so that they are real smooth and them chamfer the cylinder pin hole on both ends. This will allow a little grease to stay in there.
Before you load the cylinder place a little grease over and in the cylinder hole on the front side of the cylinder. When you slide the pin in it will push the grease through the hole and will even help grease the hammer screw Just look down in the trigger works after you have the cylinder in. I also like to smear a little grease on the cylinder stars.Hope this helps yours as much as it did mine. Mike

Kevin, My sister is a retired Sgt. of detectives from the Akron, Ohio force. She was also a trainging officer for police forces all over the US. They would come to Columbus ,Ohio to take classes from her in Child abbuse.
When she retired she had no use for man kind . She said she had seen way to much of "man's inhumanity to man". Now that she's been away from it for awhile her attitude is much better.When she retired and they had a party for her they gave her a stainless "Walther P-.380" in a beautiful case. What a great gun that is!

Glad you got that book. It really is about the best I've seen and it has alot of other info too. Be careful out there, Nashville has it's nut's for sure!
I live in a town of less than 10,000 and we have lots of them here .
Carry the Remington , an a old Sheriffs badge and cowboy hat. When someone gives you a hard time just fire it in the air with 40g in it. When they hear it and see the fire come out the barrel they leave in a hurry Mike
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Old October 27, 2005, 03:24 PM   #21
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Yea,hell All I'd Have To Do Is Point It At The Thugs And They'd Go The Other Way,until I Shoot All Six.lol.
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Old October 27, 2005, 05:35 PM   #22
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MPP1423, Don't know whats going on but I made a post earlier on here and now it's gone!!! Must be a ghost on my computor
My question was.... Do you mind sharing with us just how you cast your balls? What mold, what pot and heat source are you useing, what lead and laddel and your method? Best place to get everything needed to get started. I would like to get into making my own balls just for the fun of it on the long winter nights and bad days after hunting season. Just turn on the country music and let er rip! Mike
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Old October 27, 2005, 05:43 PM   #23
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Low Key, Did you get that new fire breather ? If you don't have time to check it out just send it to me and I'll be happy to do that for you. Then I can send it on to MPP1423 and he can break it in a little more and then he can pass it on to KillinCritters and he can pass it on to...... Heck, by the time you get it back it should be broke in real well. We are all happy to help you out Mike
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Old October 27, 2005, 09:13 PM   #24
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Where did everyone go??? I hate being alone, Mike
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Old October 28, 2005, 01:20 AM   #25
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sorry mike,like i said this pol icing take a lot of my time.lol.well,the ladel is from lyman,the melting pot is a lee as well as the mould,and the lead is usually just plain ol round balls bought at bass pro.im about to buy the melting pot (lee)that has the spout on the bottom and a pull handle to operate.the ladel is a pain in the rear.so,if you are going to do it get the spout on the bottom.also im about to start using wheel weights from our fleet garage,get all i want.lol.i dont much care for casting my own round balls,ill just get them in the store but i like the round nose bullets that i cast.plus they are 200 gr.they hit hard and very on target.best i've shot.they also load like a breeze and have the lube lands(2 of them) around the bullet so you can lube them with like lube 1000,what i use,and really by doing this you dont need a wad or grease because the lube on the bullets seal the chambers and keep the bore in good shape too.i'll tell ya the best place i have found,MIDSOUTH SHOOTERS SUPPLY here in clarksville,tn.they have all you want and then some.get you a catalog mike,you'll love it.WWW.MIDSOUTHSHOOTERS.COM.by the way thats cool about your sister.
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