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Old September 6, 2005, 08:25 PM   #1
Servo77
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Winchester Model 70 Black shadow

Anyone have opinons of the black shadow winchester 70's? I am looking at one locally in 30-06. I like it a little better then the regular model 70 for a few reasons. 1) synthetic stock, 2) not as pretty, and since it is a field gun, no worries about banging it up, 3) price point.

What kind of accuracy is to be expected from this rifle? Anyone have any experience with these. Good accuracy or so-so?
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Old September 7, 2005, 03:32 PM   #2
AZ Jeff
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It's a Model 70. What more is there to say? They are robust, durable, well made commericial bolt action rifles.
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Old September 7, 2005, 04:23 PM   #3
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My buddy has one with a 3x9x40 BSA scope on it. At 100 yards he can group 5 shots into a quarter sized group. That's with factory ammo! I was considering buying a Savage or Rem. 700 BDL, but after seeing what the Model 70 did, I'm thinking of getting one myself.
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Old September 7, 2005, 04:45 PM   #4
us.armysniper
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I have a winchester model 70 in .270 and it is awesome i have a simmons atec 3 by 9 by 40mm. And like tpaw said you can get 5 in a quarter at 100 yds. no problem. The only thing about the model 70 i wish they would change is to make the trigger easy to adjust, like that of the remington 700 or the savage rifles with the accu-trigger. But with a little work from my gun smith he got my model 70's trigger pull down to 1 1/2 pounds. i love it and i know you will. You can't go wrong.
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Old September 7, 2005, 04:50 PM   #5
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Can't imagine a U.S. Army Sniper recommending a Mod 70 over a 700!
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Old September 7, 2005, 04:59 PM   #6
us.armysniper
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That was the first rifle I ever owned i got that rifle when i was 12 for my first hunt and still shoot it to this day. Me and that rifle are soul mates. And the 700's we are issued are garbage compared to what you can buy off a dealers shelf. But If i had to choose one rifle over all others it would be the m21 sws.
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Old September 7, 2005, 05:19 PM   #7
Servo77
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TPAW, was your friends a black shadow? I know the black shadow is less expensive then other 70's, but any quality of function differences?
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Old September 7, 2005, 05:24 PM   #8
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I thought the Army spent $5000+ on their sniper rifles. How could those rifles be "garbage", compared to an off-the-shelf Remington rifle?

Local deputy sheriff did sniper duty with the Army in Afganistan. You might have seen his and his partner's picture in Stars and Stripes, a coupla years ago? He liked the Remington so much that he's going to buy one privately.

On the other hand, Gunny Hathcock did fairly well with his 70, didn't he?
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Old September 7, 2005, 07:27 PM   #9
us.armysniper
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The army does spend alot of money on these weapons, but as you know money can't always buy happiness. They are great rifles when the are first issued right out of the box from the remington factory. But all of the stuff that we are issued is hand me down stuff or weapons that have been used pass there aloted amount. Like the heavy barrels of our m24 sws are supposed to be changed every 5,000 rds, yeah right that has way past. It is hard to explain but if you could see the stuff we were actually issued you would understand. The bore in our remington is horrible looking and pitted all to heck. The scopes can't hold a zero because they have been banged each and everyway under the sun.
A brand new Remington 700 pss is what I have for personal use, the weapon system is awesome and i love everything about it. And I would much rather have it if my life depended on it than the army issued one. Next time we go out to a range i will see if i can't get some pictures of it and all it's un glory.
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Old September 7, 2005, 08:51 PM   #10
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I've fired a couple of PSS's. Done some trigger work on a couple, also. I prefer the VS, but there's not much difference in the two, other than the configuration of the stocks and the twist on the .223's.

That's really crappy news about the beat-up rifles. Thanks for the clarification. I thought, from your initial post, that the quality of the rifle was just bad, compared to the commercial PSS's, VS's, etc. Hard to believe that our tax money won't pay for up-to-date equipment for guys in the field.
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Old September 7, 2005, 08:54 PM   #11
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Servo77

Honestly, I don't know. But I will call him and ask. I will get back to you.
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Old September 7, 2005, 10:18 PM   #12
mdhunter
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Getting Back to Your Question, Servo.....

I have a Win 70, Black Shadow (it wasn't called Stealth 4 years ago when I bought it, so may be slight differences) in .30-06. Gets good groups with factory ammo, including some sub-2 inch groups at 200 yards with my hunting ammo (180 grain Barnes XLC).

Have used it for three Alaska hunts in the past 4 years, have shot caribou at ranges from 150 to 275 yards with no problem. I'm gonna buy another model 70 in .338 Win Mag for bear hunting.

If you're a hunter, it's a great field gun - 3 positon safety, controlled round feed, reliable, etc. You'll love it!

Michael
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Old September 8, 2005, 10:15 AM   #13
foxfyre841
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For those of you that have held or own one (of the win 70).. how sloppy is the bolt fitting? does it rattle or wiggle much when drawing back? Thanks
James
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Old September 8, 2005, 01:14 PM   #14
AZ Jeff
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Quote:
For those of you that have held or own one (of the win 70).. how sloppy is the bolt fitting? does it rattle or wiggle much when drawing back?
All bolts will wiggle when fully extended. The key question is how smoothly does it run back in to battery. A binding bolt is annoying and possibly dangerous when hunting dangerous game or when playing on the "two way rifle range".
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Old September 8, 2005, 05:54 PM   #15
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US Army Sniper

What happened in Sadr city?
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Old September 8, 2005, 08:22 PM   #16
us.armysniper
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Thesnowpig,

Well i could give you the long drawn out story of what happend that day, but i will give you the main points. Some of it, some people might not believe it but I can promise you that it did happen , and how i wish It didn't happen. Imagine the following, the main points.

1- 500 of muqtada al-sadr malitia
2- a 6 hour fire fight that neevr stoped.
3- Running out of ammo
4- The 5.56 you are firing won't stop a man for crap.
5- we fired so many rounds that our bolts would not open.
6- one destroyed m1 abrams
7- one destroyed m2 bradly
8 Your best friend shot in the face by an enemy sniper, and bleeding to death in your arms.
9- another one of your buddies shot through the jaw and comming out the back of his neck. Who did live.
10- The thought that you aren't gonna live to see your newborn daughter, and wife.
11-molitove cocktails
12- women calling for fire on you and your teams position.
13- a little boy that tries to kill you but he is too small to hold the weapon up.

Well i guess you get the idea. the main reason i will never forget is because of the death of my main man. Who's name I will not disclose. I am sorry i got on such a rant but once you start it is hard to stop. I appreciate your wanting to know. I want everyone to know that they can ask me anything at anytime and I will be more than happy to answer. But don't ask me about killing anything. Thanks
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Old September 8, 2005, 08:33 PM   #17
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us.armysniper

All I can say is, thank you for doing what you do. Regardless of how anyone feels about Iraq or what not, its people like you that give us the freedom to get on this message board and talk about guns ans stuff.

Again, thank you
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Old September 9, 2005, 01:23 AM   #18
TPAW
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US.ARMYSNIPER

From one who literally felt the sting of battle as an infantryman in Vietnam,
I appluad your service and salute you. Welcome home. You are among the brotherhood of many who knows the realities of war. For those who don't, aren't they lucky.........
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Old September 9, 2005, 03:40 AM   #19
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.223 WSSM Black Shadow

I collect and shoot just about anything my budget allows. I'm up to 60+ and counting, inculing handguns and shotguns. I currently have 3 Winchesters. #1: 1897 .16 Gauge- 1921 MFG
#2: M-70 .264 Win Mag- 1965 Mfg
#3: M-70 .223 WSSM Black Shadow

Even with that stubby little cartridge and pencil thin barrel my BS keeps up with my .222's in accuracy and functions like a Swiss watch. I personely think the most over-priced firearms in America are the Pre-64 M-70's. Think my next new rifle will probably be another Winchester, most likely a M-94 in .25-35. They wouldn't put that name on it if it wer'nt damned near perfect.
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Old September 13, 2005, 01:35 AM   #20
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Armysniper

US Armysniper

Sounds like Hell. Where I live I don’t get TV reception and we haven’t bothered to get a Dish. I get my news from the radio driving to and from work, so I’m not much up on all the names of the cities and the battles. I recognized Sadr city from some correspondence with a brother in law. Thanks for the reply.

thesnowpig
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Old September 13, 2005, 07:51 AM   #21
us.armysniper
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Hey don't worry about watching the news they don't depict what is really going on any way. They pick out the worst of every thing and throw it in the face of the american public.
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Old September 13, 2005, 11:44 AM   #22
Charles S
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US Armysniper,

I commend you for your service.

I have the newer Winchester Super Shadow and I have been very impressed. This has been an excellent rifle with nothing more than a trigger job and having the crown re-cut.

Charles
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Old September 13, 2005, 02:29 PM   #23
us.armysniper
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I think my next bolt gun will be another winchester model 70 but i am torn on caliber but i am leaning heavy towards the .30-06
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Old September 19, 2005, 06:10 PM   #24
exoduster16
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I'm knew to posting here but I usually just read the posts. I just spent an hour trying to find this story. This is really sad. u.s.armysniper, I'm really sorry about your friend and the rest of your squad. Running out of ammo sucks. I guess the only question I have to ask is when you said the women were directing fire in your direction, do your ROE's allow you to engage them as enemy combatants? Thanks again for just doing your job and keeping us safe.
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Old September 19, 2005, 06:59 PM   #25
us.armysniper
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Well during the first few months of the deployment our roe's were really lenient, we pretty much had free rain. There at the end it started getting really ridiculous and dumb real fast. There are two different reasons that we would engage, that is if the person or persons were commiting a hostile act like for example inplacing an Ied, shooting at us, civilians, and other security forces. And then you have hostile acts for example you have a check point set up and the car you tell to halt keeps moving at you at a high rate of speed. They might be innocent but in split second moments like that it is better him than you and your buddies. Now in sadr-city we were allowed to fire on the women, they are as much of a threat as the men and the young kids for that matter. but they were commiting a hostile act by directing fire on our position. and she had hostile intent by wanting us dead, so we had all the permission we needed as far as the roe's went and even if we wouldn't been able too it would have happened. Everyone has different inturpritations of them and that is mine, which I guess i did all right cause i didn't go to jail!
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