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Old July 31, 2005, 11:40 PM   #1
Wildalaska
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Al Qaeda Shootin Up The Shopping Mall

Now we all know of course that when the Al Qaeda boys start spraying in the shopping mall we are gonna take cover and take em out with our trusty Taurus with 5 mags and a surefire light, or even run to the car and get the SKS out of the trunk and engage em long range....

But walter Mitty aside, if you are like me, you avoid malls on gneral principle.

On the other hand, your wife, and just as important, your TEENAGERS, dont.

So what have you done to prepare them...other than fantasing about goin one on one with the nasties with your CCW have you given any real thought to the problem?

Have you walked with your teenage daughter through the mall and made sure she knew the escape routes? Explained how to take cover? Run through possible scenarios? Drilled them...

Now up in Alaska, theres a remote chance of Obamas attacking...but how bout down in Virginia...or NY..or PA? Think it cant happen?

I know its sad that we have to live life that way..on the other hand Im old enough to remmber air raid drills in elementary school, although how kneeling with your head against the wall would help save a life when a MIRV popped is beyond me....

WildserioussubjectAlaska
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Old July 31, 2005, 11:52 PM   #2
dasmi
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if you are like me, you avoid malls on gneral principle.
Damn right. I hate malls with every fiber of my being.
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Old August 1, 2005, 01:12 AM   #3
BatmanX
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I notice that the older I get the more intolerant of large groups I become.
My better half likes the malls, but she protects herself through the correct means.
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Old August 1, 2005, 04:34 AM   #4
CyberSEAL
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The problem is that in reality, your loved ones are every bit as likely to run into a nightmare scenario at the mall, as they are at Denny's. Definitely a good idea to talk to your family and explain to them the importance of remaining calm, level-headed and to occassionally think these scenarios out in their head.
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Old August 1, 2005, 06:18 AM   #5
stevelyn
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I notice the older I get, the more intolerant of large groups I become.
You too? I thought maybe it was only me that felt that way.
Phew! That's a relief......... I'm only getting old, not mentally ill.
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Old August 1, 2005, 11:16 AM   #6
spacemanspiff
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reason #492 why i am single and do not risk having any offspring.
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Old August 1, 2005, 12:23 PM   #7
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WA - have you been watching too many re-runs of Chuck Norris in Invasion USA?

Personally I like malls - lots of eye candy.....
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Old August 1, 2005, 12:27 PM   #8
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More likely to run into white extremists and other domestic terrorists in a mall than al qeada anyway. We stopped 160 of there attacks from groups like the KKK and other neonazi groups including plans to use cynanide to kill off everyone in a mall and other attacks on big cities, so those are the ones you really need to look for.

If they are using gunfire it more likely to be ****** off kids who were smacked around by parents and bullied by kids at school though.
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Old August 1, 2005, 12:40 PM   #9
9mm1033
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LE made an arrest of a single terrorist who was planning to bomb a large popular mall here in middle America, Columbus, Ohio. Not Los Angeles, New York or Philly, but in the heartland. Personally, I say screw Mr. Al Qaeda and his band of rag-head followers. I go where and when I want. If it happens...hit the deck. Dust yourself off and continue on.
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Old August 1, 2005, 12:51 PM   #10
BatmanX
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You too? I thought maybe it was only me that felt that way.
Nope, there are a surprising number of people I have met that are very similar. I think it is my intolerance of the TYPE of people, and not really people in general. It seems as the years go on, people are less respectful of others in public, and it makes my blood pressure rise - and I haven't even hit 30 yet!!!!

Prime example: The Mall of America in Bloomington Minnesota. I can't be in there more than 60 minutes without wanting to verbally reprimand people for the way they act and the attitude of their children in regards to others around them.

/I digress.
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Old August 1, 2005, 01:47 PM   #11
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This is my first post to TFL on this type of topic, but I am responding because this is something I think about quite often. Maybe more than I should, but the last few years have forced us to consider things that in the past that would have sounded crazy.

We live minutes from one of the largest malls in New England, a real shopping Mecca. (bad pun intended). Two levels of upscale shopping with four huge anchor stores. My wife loves the mall, and loves to go with our 3 1/2 year old girl. They don't live there by any stretch of the imagination. We believe in good old fashioned outdoor fun, but there is a time and a place for what my wife calls "retail therapy".

I am not paranoid. I am a realist. And I am very worried about Bad Things happening at a major American Mall. Since 9/11 I have discussed with my wife about limiting her trips to the mall around the holidays, and she has been good about it. As recently as last month we discussed her plans if something like an active shooting began at the mall. Such as not nessecarily running in the complete opposite direction from a shooter, which may lead to other shooters waiting to corral the fleeing public. We have talked about lateral exits and the careful use of the mall's back corridors, along with other things.

I do not go to the mall without a sidearm. I'm no Mall Ninja, but I will not set foot in that place unarmed. And when I'm there I'm usually not enjoying myself much. I worked my way through college as a security guard/special police officer at one of the largest indoor/outdoor mall tourist attractions in the northeast. I've dealt with every manner of protestor, nutjob, and criminal you can imagine. As a result I spend most of my time in public places just watching those around us. I resent that this is what its come to, but its the cards that we've all been dealt.

Lets face it, most of us are not tactical operators. Despite my background in criminal justice and private security I have no illusions about my abilities. Claiming that we know what we would do if a shooting scenario unfolded around us is fantasy. Every situation is different. My primary concern is my wife and little girl. I wish it were practical to just say "no more mall", but it just isn't realistic.

So no, I don't have a plan, per se, but I am glad to see this topic being discussed here.

Steve
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Old August 1, 2005, 01:54 PM   #12
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Steve:
Well said.

JT (fellow Bay Stater)
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Old August 1, 2005, 01:58 PM   #13
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My wife and son and I have discussed this scenario quite a few times.
If we or they are in an enclosed public place, mall, restaurant, or whatever:

1) Identify location of nearest exit at all times.
2) If seated, sit near an emergency exit or the kitchen (back door access)
3) When in the mall or other large shopping complex pay attention to the sights and sounds around you at all times. Odds are if you hear yelling or see someone running, there's a problem.
4) If we, they or I am/are threatened with imminent harm, do not hesitate to eliminate the threat by whatever means necessary.

We've also talked about pulling fire alarms if they are accessible.
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Old August 1, 2005, 02:45 PM   #14
115grfmj
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I actually have a defensive scheme for malls....

Heres how it goes: I put on a shoulder length black wig, paint on black
eyelashes, black lipstick (Yes I'm a Guy, just roll with it for a minute)
next I put one of those fake septum rings in my nose and attach it
to my fake earring with a chain. Then I put on ripped up black jeans, a
black shirt (preferably with NIN on it), Ox blood colored Doc. Martins,
and either a black flight jacket or a black duster. As the icing on the
cake I powder my face white. Strap a guitar case on my back, and look
profoundly depressed. I now look so much like the ubiquitous goth teens
that I'm practically invisible. :barf:

When Osama (or Obama, WA whatever your threat) showes up
an opens up on the terrified mall goers, I simply seek cover remove
my 1894c, and my british campaign hat from my guitar case, whip off
my wig replace it with said hat, and line up the first unlucky terrorist
through my 1894c's williams site.

Yeah......I hate malls too.
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Old August 1, 2005, 03:21 PM   #15
jrpeterman
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I wouldn't classify Al-Qeada's tactics in the U.S. to revolve around the classic stereotype of a rampage shooter. All of the Al-Queada attacks on U.S. soil that I can recall involved using major explosions to create massive fear and chaos. This does not say that large shopping malls could not be Al-Qeada targets, but if a rampage shooting occurred at a mall, I would highly doubt that the shooter would be linked to Al-Qeada. Plenty of other nuts out there that would fill the bill. Best to always be alert and prepared.
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Old August 1, 2005, 03:37 PM   #16
dasmi
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Quote:
I notice the older I get, the more intolerant of large groups I become.
I'm 23, and I'm in the same boat as you. People are just plain rude these days, especially kids, and it only gets worse when you get a big group. I prefer to interact with my select group of friends, and avoid large social settings.
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Old August 1, 2005, 03:37 PM   #17
CarbineCaleb
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We stopped 160 of there attacks from groups like the KKK and other neonazi groups including plans to use cynanide to kill off everyone in a mall
I would like to see some experimentation with government sanctioned hunting seasons for KKK and NeoNazis - maybe a 2 week black powder season in spring, 2 week bow season in midsummer (no bag limit), and, for the little tykes, a slingshot season from Thanksgiving to Christmas. Would thin out the lowliest of varmints and help to beautify the country.
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Old August 2, 2005, 11:39 AM   #18
Wyo Cowboy
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Didn't Tom Clancy cover this situation in "Teeth of the Tiger"?
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Old August 2, 2005, 07:37 PM   #19
grimjaw
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I used to think I was paranoid and claustraphobic, then I started reading the gun forums.

But I agree, I hate crowds, and I'm usually in and out of malls as quickly as possible. It was too crowded for me in Sioux Falls, SOUTH DAKOTA, today. I'm even avoiding the Cabelas down the street, gods forbid.

jmm
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Old August 4, 2005, 07:21 PM   #20
smince
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Didn't Tom Clancy cover this situation in "Teeth of the Tiger"?
Yes, and very effectively, I might add. (I was going to mention this book, but you beat me to it.)
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Old August 4, 2005, 07:29 PM   #21
The Rabbi
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Jrpeterman, thanks for the dose of reality.

Muslim terrorists do not whip out AKs and blast people indiscriminately. They wear belts with explosives and blow themselves up in crowds. Shootings risk capture which risks exposing the organization. If an al Qaeda guys blows himself up the best plan in the universe will not save you from that. Be aware of exits and use them, yes. In Israel the tactic is for one guy to blow himself up and then when the crowd gathers to assess damage the second guy "goes ballistic."
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Old August 4, 2005, 08:02 PM   #22
Randy in Arizona
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Shoebox/Steve,

Welcome to The Firing Line!

I worked as an armored car messenger/driver/guard for long enough to get to the point I hate crowds!

I like people watching & enjoy eyecandy, but DO NOT like being in a mass of people.

So, don't feel paranoid, just determine if you are paranoid enough!
Non clinical paranoia is the sum of your experience trying to tell you something ain't right!

Watch over your wife and child and do your best to train them to watch out for themselves.
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Old August 5, 2005, 06:34 PM   #23
lee n. field
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Quote:
But walter Mitty aside, if you are like me, you avoid malls on gneral principle.
I can walk from end to end of your average mall and not find one thing I want to buy. Not one. Not even in the bookstores.

Of course, there are no gun shops in malls.

Quote:
I notice that the older I get the more intolerant of large groups I become.
Me too.
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Old August 8, 2005, 12:43 PM   #24
Mannlicher
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I don't mind the mall. Scenery is nice to look at, and I like a bargain too. I always go prepared for what might transpire, I keep the old situational awarness ramped up, and its also the best way to protect my wife. She is going with me or without me, so I might as well be there.
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Old August 8, 2005, 01:03 PM   #25
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I'll just trust the MALL NINJA to watch my six!
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