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Old September 1, 2005, 11:05 AM   #26
bdc
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Response

You asked multiple questions and they were open ended.

Let's go to the questions. Assumedly, the person posting gave some thought to his answers.

what plans do you have in order for you,

1. I TAKE CARE OF MYSELF FIRST. NO ONE IS GOOD TO TAKE CARE OF SOMEONE ELSE IF HE/SHE IS NOT IN GOOD SHAPE. PHYSICAL/MENTAL - I SEE THE DOCTOR AND DENTIST REGULARLY. I DO SAN SOO AS MUCH AS 4 EVENINGS A WEEK. I WATCH MY WEIGHT. KIND OF MUNDANE AND COMMON SENSE, HUH? RIGHT! HOW MANY PEOPLE TO YOU KNOW WHO ARE PHYSICALLY FIT? NOT VERY MANY. I KEEP UP MY SKILLS LEVELS IN SHOOTING, FIRST AID, SELF DEFENSE. I CONSTANTLY REVIEW AND UPGRADE MY EQUIPMENT.

your family

1. NO PLANS. MY DAD LIVES IN MISSISSIPPI, HAS 4 ENGINEERING DEGREES AND MONEY. HE HAS LIVED THROUGH HURRICANES BEFORE. HE HAS NOT HAD ELECTRICITY FOR 4 DAYS. HE HAS REJECTED MY SUGGESTIONS TO BUY A GENERATOR IN THE PAST. NOW WHAT DO YOU WANT ME TO DO?

, and extended family to survive
1. I HAVE PROVIDED, AT MY EXPENSE, EQUIPMENT AND TRAINING TO THE FEW EXTENDED FAMILY MEMBERS WHO WERE WILLING TO ACCEPT THE SAME. I HAVE A SISTER WHO LIVES ONE MILE AWAY AND WHO HAS REJECTED EQUIPMENT AND LEARNING SKILLS. SHE HAS TOLD ME SHE WILL COME OVER IF THERE IS AN EMERGENCY. GET THE PICTURE PEOPLE? NOW JUST HOW PREPARED DO YOU THINK SHE IS? AND WILL SHE BE A BURDEN, IF I AM HERE, OR AN ASSET?

BOBS, WALTER MITTY DREAMS, PACMAN COMBAT AGAINST HORDES OF INVADING [FILL IN THE BLANK - A. CHINESE; B. TERRORISTS; C. BLUE HELMETED UN TROOPS]. GET REAL. GET IN SHAPE. GET SKILLS. CONCERN YOURSELF WITH IMPROVING YOURSELF BEFORE REACHING OUT TO OTHERS. YOU CAN BE DARN SURE THAT YOU WILL HAVE LESS SUPPORT THAN YOU CAN IMAGINE.
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Old September 1, 2005, 11:15 AM   #27
johnnymenudo
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I don't have much to add except the one element that I feel is missing from all these bug out and survival plans, is bringing along a fit body. I see a lot of overweight and slow moving people at organized shoots, gun schools, and gun shows, and I know these people are prepared with the equipment. But truth be told, the rate limiting factor in their survival is lack of personal fitness. If gas runs out you will need to walk or self propel, and you do need to be able to move quickly sometimes. Part of my routine is cardiovascular and weight training so that I am not limited whatsoever by my ability. I would also include a mountain bicycle and a some good shoes as part of my bug out plans. I might need them.

JM
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Old September 1, 2005, 12:13 PM   #28
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Johnny,

Good idea about getting fit but you do have to realize that some aren't in good shape because of medical reasons, not just letting themselves go. Just an observation.

As for the primary BOB, I have one of those mountain climber rigs that you can carry a lot with little effort. But the place that I have picked out to bug out to, depending of course on the reason of bug out, is about 150 miles away from here. It's a "special place" that I found over the net and drove to check it out. It's up high so in case of flood I should be safe. In case of hurricane or tornado's (lets pretend that they just come and I get up there, the place is a cave so that provides good protection. Also should protect somewhat against nuclear.

The reason that I have all the stuff that I do is because I started to "collect" in 2000 and just picked up things here and there.

Wayne
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Old September 1, 2005, 02:19 PM   #29
Ramcharger
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In Calif earthquakes and riots seem to be the main issues here. I live in a city east of los angeles so incase of say a earthquake levels out entire neighborhood and I cant saty there. I have a 10 acre lot about 100 miles north in the Mojave desert. Its not in a empty, remote no neighbors for miles place either. Its a small farming town (alfalfa farms) with homes scattered and a real paved road and thers a real city (Mohave and Cali City) 10 miles away.
I set up a 5th wheel there that I use as a camp site when I hunt Quail/rabbits. I do have a good supply of ammo stashed away there and once I pay off the truck I'll sink a well for water.
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Old September 1, 2005, 08:56 PM   #30
Phil Ca
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We live in Modesto in the Central Valley of the PRK and are in a quiet area. We used to live in another nice area but it was filled with too many people and noisy kids. Since we are sort of retired we appreciate a quiet area and less commotion. We had kids on motorized scooters and bikes and in cars with mega-watt sound systems. my feeling was that while we had some very good neighbors there we also had a few shiftless types that I would not trust in a disaster situation. I also do not believe that many of these folks were prepared for anything except watching a football game or MTV.

Here in our new neighborhood we have a large number of retirees and and while I see a number of them on morning walks I do not believe them to be able to mix it up with any rioters that might come into the area. My wife and I have arthritis and walking any great distance is out of the question. My plan is to hunker down and ride out the problems that come up if at all possible. Ihave my own contingency plan for dealing with interlopers into our area.

Since our economic situation took a major downturn in 2002 we are living on the edge, so to speak. We just had our tranny on the van repaired and if the mecanic had not given us a discount and was willing to take a couple of additional payments the van would still be parked out front. We took it out to buy gasoline last night at 2300 hours and it cost $75.00 to (almost) fill it up. The pump stopped automatically at that amount. ($2.99 per gallon)

I am reconfiguring our BOB's and gear that we will be keeping either in the van or in a ready area in case we do have to leave for any reason. Just watching the despair of the people on the Gulf Coast has been very revealing. It is also obvious that a great many people still believes that "Big Brother" is there to pluck them out of any problem. On the evening of the Loma Prieta EQ a SFPD officer was announcing to people that they should be prepared to take care of themselves for 72 hours. If the people in this storm area had done that there would not be nearly the chaos that exists there.

Being fit is a definite plus and while I am able to get around my brush with the a member of he criminal element while in Switzerland in June has left me with a few painful areas and I am not as "spry" as I was before.

One of the most important things we need to remember during these uncertain times is that we retain our humanity. Some of the scenes coming out of the aftermath of the storm depict people that have there humanuty intact and othres seem to have lost theirs.
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Old September 1, 2005, 10:59 PM   #31
branham91
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Survival Plan

Well I am building my survival kit!!! -Especially after seeing what is going on in N.O. I live in Kentucky and luckily have access to my parent's 150 acre farm and we have a few problems here with Tornadoes (rare) but Ice Storms are terrible. We were without electricity for 13 days two winters ago . We got a generator and made it ok. We had access to all the firewood we needed and cooked on the Buck Stove we could go into town for drinking water. But we have a cistren as back-up. The generator was good for powering the lights and one refrigerator. But it used almost 5 gallons of fuel a day!! I took my showers at work.
But back to the survival pack.-- I have done some research and this is what I came up with:
On amazon.com they have this coleman first aid kit for $20. (has needle, scissors, bandages, 50 water purifing tablets, and space blankets,etc) Also I would get hand cranking radio/led flashlight so you dont have to worry about batteries. I am starting off with these first two items. Then the list goes:
Folding Shovel - Machete- Magnifying Glass+Matches+Butane Lighter-Wool Blanket-Good pair of hiking shoes/boots-Thick work gloves-Dust Mask (Drywall)- Heavy Ziploc Bags-Rope100ft-Duct Tape-Mess Kit-Candles-Signal Mirror- Towel- tarp- small tent- Cans of beans or MREs- Insect repellant- can opener- pure grain 190 proof. This can be packed in a army ruck sack or larger back pack. Then have some coleman fuel, stove, and lantern.
As far as arms go:
Browning Buckmark 1000rds amo
Ruger 22 rifle
.308 Deer rifle
aw heck all the guns and ammo you can carry!!
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Old September 2, 2005, 12:00 AM   #32
Garand Illusion
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I don't have a BOB, but plenty of stuff on hand to throw stuff together. And as much time as we spend out camping it wouldn't take long to throw it together.

The situation would determine the vehicle to bring. The 4x4 off-roader is older and not as reliable, but it would get over anything. 4x4 camper is also older, but drinks gas like crazy. Might be hard to keep fed.

For some situation, the best choice might be the mini-van; great range, good gas mileage and plenty of room for the family and equipment.

Number of guns carried will depend on the situation.

One thing for sure, though ... whether you keep a BOB or not it's important to keep a few days bottled water and a couple hundred bucks in small bills around the house all the time. If you have water, you can last out anything for quite a while.
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Old September 2, 2005, 10:29 AM   #33
Bravo25
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Crank Pump

In all of these threads, one common concern is fuel. I would recomend that people have a good hand crank pump on hand with plenty of hose length. This can be sued for everything from getting to water in deep sources to fuel that is just sitting in tanks under ground, or in vehicles. This is not something I have in my BOB, but it is something I intened to aquire for the vehicle.
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Old September 2, 2005, 11:29 AM   #34
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our family has fairly indepth camping experience and has spent up to three weeks at a time out in the woods in the BWCA with out having outside contact.
i would not carry MRE's there are a lot better- tasting lasting and packing meal available for lots less money. we carry cooking oil, rice, (twenty five pounds of rice will feed you for a long time). instant oat meal. instant mashed potatoes, pasta meals. all those soup in a pouches you see at that grocery store are great and easy to make. flour and dry powder milk, salt and pepper, sugar, brown sugar and butter melted together and then poured into tubs. emergency rations if no heat avaiable and great to put a bit on pancakes or oatmeal. We bring packets of gatorade too, mix that with water for a better drink after canoeing all day. My wife usually carries a squeeze bottle of iced tea concentrate so she has something different. i carry some squeeze bottles with some condiments in it. one with lemon juice, one with worchestershire sauce, and one with parkay liquid margarine. What we look for are the small packets of food that are dehydrated and light. We only carry enough water for the day. we purify the water we drink on a daily basis for wieght consideration. We play on catching fish when we go but only allow for 25% of meals to be based on "found food" each of us carries a stove in out packs, we carry MSR multi fuels Whispers, and one canoe carrys a multi fuel coleman stove. These stoves will burn almost anything flamable, white gas, unleaded, kerosene, diesel, paint thinner. So they are good for SHTF scenarios. We got into the habit of carrying multiple food packs. breaking the food down into smaller heavy duty ziplock bag and splitting it up so that if one canoe got dumped or something similar, and we lost one food pack the other pack would be able to at least create edible meals. It is amazing how much food is availabe that is very suitable for long term room temp storage. We rarely if ever but the expensive back packing food for our trips. 25 pounds total of dried food and essentials will feed us very nicely for a week. Forty pounds will cover two weeks easily.

After we go camping, after our stuff is washed and dryed and aired out and finally put away, each of us reloads our stuff into our packs and the other suff all gets loaded into a few hockey bags with the packs. each of these hockey bags will support the owner for a long time. combined we can live really nicely for at least a month without outside intervetion.

Yeah we all have an extra month of meds. two of the packs have fairly complete medical kits in them, with antibiotics, burn medication, suture kits and a surgical stapler in them. The basic cost of this stuff is really pretty low, the bulk of the first aid kit was found in a first aid kit for hunting dogs, for a cost of about 25 bucks. the rest was probably no more than 50 bucks and that included the perscription cost.

As for as what is the other stuff, two bags carry a sven saw, a very useful collapsable saw, two carry small axes, one is a northwoods pattern cutaway, the other is a riggers axe. one side a hammer and the other a hatchet blade, this is a very useful tool. We all carry some sort of a sheath knife, there is a larger filet knife in the tackle pouch. We carry two 5 inch vise grips, and two multitools, between that we have been pretty lucky in fixing what ever breaks. In the boundary waters, I carry a stainless model 65 S&W 3 in HB round butt, will do what I need up there and we usually see no one after the second day, so we do not carry much more. If we go else where or if it was a SHTF type scenario. I would probably use Two AR's and two M1'A's and carry 9mm and 40's for the reason of availaility of military and police ammo
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Old September 2, 2005, 11:53 AM   #35
Jon N Lakeland
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Just because I saw someone mention flashlights and batteries -

Forever Flashlight Dynamo

I have one of those, I like it a lot. Every time in the past that I needed a flashlight the battery was dead So a flashlight you can crank was good for me.
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Old September 2, 2005, 12:45 PM   #36
huntatnight
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Fortunately where we live in Eastern Pa is rural, horse farms and the like, and we have been lucky in regard to storms, outages (I do have a nice 8000W generator) Never given much thought to B.O.B.'s or where to go, heck, some family and friends from the Jersey Shore would want to come HERE....., HOWEVER, I WOULD NOT ever go to a government shelter where I would be searched for a weapon, told what to do and when to do it. If it ever gets THAT bad I'd rather die here (Bible in one hand and firearm in the other) than totally helpless someplace else.........and the Superdome is the perfect example of that crap......
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Old September 2, 2005, 04:31 PM   #37
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I'd really like to start putting stuff together. Would all of you who have stuff post brand names so I can do a little price research? Specific info on packs would be great. That seems to be the place to start for me. My initial fall back plan is to go with my family to my parent's farm. Barring that, I did not have a plan if the way was blocked. So, I'll check the brands listed already. If you use something that is reliable and cheap, I'd really love to know. Thanks TFLers
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Old September 2, 2005, 05:15 PM   #38
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For everyday carry I use a Maxpedition Falcon Pack. It carries everything that I need for an indefinate period of time. This means that I count on the water filter for hydration, and the 1911A1 for taking game to eat, but everything else fits in there. Lots of attachment points, and well made for rugged use. It isn't cheap though. I figure if I need something in a crisis, I don't want cheap. About $100.00. 3 way adjustable with belt, and chest strap.
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Old September 2, 2005, 06:20 PM   #39
wayneinFL
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bdc:
Quote:
I WATCH MY WEIGHT. KIND OF MUNDANE AND COMMON SENSE, HUH? RIGHT! HOW MANY PEOPLE TO YOU KNOW WHO ARE PHYSICALLY FIT? NOT VERY MANY.
I'm gonna stay fat. So I can go without food longer than you.

I'm a mile and a half from the coast, outside of the fifty-year flood plain. Just about the best drainage in our neighborhood. I picked that location for a reason. Where we're at, even if we did flood in a major hurricane (doubtful) the water will recede pretty quickly. Wind-wise, I should be good for a cat 4, although I'd lose shingles. I'd stay mainly to tarp the roof. Cat 5 I might bug out. I would definitely send the wife and kids out. Wife's bug out bag consists of a credit card. Cash helps, too. If you can afford it, always have some cash in the BOB.

Last year my wife evacuated. IIRC, she left a couple of days before Frances hit here last year, when it was still forecast as a cat 4. Traffic snarled,and hotels full. 12 hours of driving barely got her to Lake City, and she only got that far because she knows the back roads. I had friends who went to Orlando and rode out the hurricane in a motel there. The only food they had was chips. I could easily see someone getting stranded, so the bug out bag is really not a bad idea.

I always keep both my cars and the company van full of gas. At home, I keep canned food, ten gallons or so of drinking water, a jug of bleach, and an extra tank of propane during hurricane season. Gotta cook up all that meat before it goes bad. Hurricanes mean lots of grillin'

Unless you're in New Orleans. Scary. All these years they've theorized about what would happen in a major hurricane, and it's all underwater. And all those people dead and dying.
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Old September 2, 2005, 07:43 PM   #40
rdebert
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A simple thought or add to any BOB: all important documents or copies thereof along with some cash. Documents such as insurance paperwork, social security cards, color copies of driver's license, shot records, Concealed Carry license/permit, account numbers with phone numbers, mortgage paperwork, titles, etc. (Need to be able to prove identity, that you do have a valid insurance policy, etc.) Some cash because cash is always good (whereas a credit card/atm card usually requires electricity and a working computer network). Recommend putting these things together now if you don't have them and have these ready for anything (including: wake up in the middle of the night and your residence is on fire and you have to get out NOW). Might want to put these in a "mini-BOB"...such as a fanny pack that can quickly and easily be added to/thrown into/stuffed into a "regular BOB." Fanny pack can also hold a hand gun so if this is all you have time to grab you still retain a means to defend yourself.

I think in terms of layering prepartions. And organized "mini-BOB." Working up from there to: A full BOB. Backup BOB (or vehicle BOB perhaps...more BOBs are welcome here...but not BILLs.. ). Residence prep for what many call "bugging in" (though the term I grew up with was "castle"). Vehicle prep. Evac. plans (mulitple routes to designated destinations). Etc.
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Old September 2, 2005, 09:48 PM   #41
Jon N Lakeland
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Someone in one of these BOB threads mentioned going to the extra expense of getting quality items for the BOB, since if you end up needing it your life may be counting on what you have. I fully applaud that mentality...if you can afford it.

However, I have to say that having something is better than having nothing. Personally, I plan on trying to get *something* for all the items I want to have in my BOB, and then replacing the cheap stuff with quality as I can afford it. Not having been raised in a family that did any outdoorsy stuff, I don't have basically anything that would help me live off the land.

For instance, I saw a link to a revolver knife / saw thing that was something like $100, and that would be really nice to have. Lacking that however, I think I'd rather have a crappy walmart pocket knife and camp saw for $15 total than wait until I can afford the quality.

Same reason I'm looking at possibly getting a Hi-Point handgun - I'm not going to pretend it's wonderful, but it's better than nothing, which is what I have now.
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Old September 3, 2005, 12:16 AM   #42
ShottyTim
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could anyone make an approx list of what should be in a BOB, im looking for exacts, i just have been reading and it sounds like a terrific idea, just suggestions would be greatly appreciated, thanks again.

Tim
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Old September 3, 2005, 12:39 AM   #43
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Quote:
I think I'd rather have a crappy walmart pocket knife and camp saw for $15 total than wait until I can afford the quality
http://www.thewholesaledealer.com/product/SKMX102

A knife for every pocket, nook cranny, drawer, car, glovebox, truck, belt, nightstand, BOB, and shelf... And then some.

Mind you, the handles are a tad flimsy... Then again, I got mine for free... And you get what you pay for.
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Old September 3, 2005, 02:31 AM   #44
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no toilet paper, baby wipes or hand sanitizer?
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Old September 3, 2005, 03:03 AM   #45
Wildalaska
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I havent dug in my truck in a while (got to repeack and review soon), but here is what I usually keep under the stashed in my truck.

1. 44 mag pistol, 50 rounds
2. lee Enfield Jungle carbine, 200 rounds 303 FMJ (dedicated truck gun)
3. 500 rounds of 5.56
4. 250 rounds of 9mm
5. 250 rounds of 45 acp
6. Water filter and Iodine tabs, collapsible water jug
7. Svea stove with 2 bottles fuel, mess kit, fry pan, pot
8. One week worth of foodstuffs for 2 folk, mostly freeze dried
9. Rope, para cord, tie downs, tow strap, chains
10. Tarps
11. Alice pack
12. Perpetual flashlight (one you shake)
13. White gas lantern
14. Extra parkas, pants, underwear, clothees, towels, toilet paper, baby wipes, Tampons and sanitary napkins (guys, you thinking about your wives)
15. Candles, matches, lighters, firestarters
16. Screwdrivers, wrenches, clamps, hose, siphon, some nails and screws
17. Axes, fishing poles, waders
18. First aid kit, including suture stuff, cold medicineetc. I always keep some serious painkillers in the house (morphine or demerol) that I can toss in a get out bag. I get a script every year for 30 or so, that I keep around for hunting or TEOTWAWKI, toss away the old ones, lots of folks do that, sucks to be hunting 300 miles form anywhere and bust a leg if ya dotn have the pills
19. Booze
20. Blankets, packs etc
21. Jerry can of gas. Also spare truck alyws has a filled back tank with 20 gallons

Here the deal is that there is one way in and one way out of the city, so if a massive quake strikes chances are I am stuck in the city. I live in a minimal fault zone, so its not likely open up here but a good shake is gonna knock stuff down. Figure if I have to evac we can and can survive in the truck for a week or so till the army gets in, if we can stay put have enough supplies between the house and the truck to make do. When the big one comes though, even though I love my swedes and toys, gonna grab either the AR or the M1A, strap on the HP, give wifey the SIG and hunker down

WildpreparedAlaska
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Old September 3, 2005, 04:41 AM   #46
John G
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don't forget-

Your personal first aid aid kit must include any special medications.

Extra glasses w/head strap
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Old September 3, 2005, 04:43 AM   #47
markwf
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There have been a couple of mentions of a hand operated gas pump / siphon. Does anybody know an online source or KMart/Walmart/Home Depot?
Thanks
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Old September 3, 2005, 09:53 AM   #48
butch50
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Quote:
Here the deal is that there is one way in and one way out of the city, so if a massive quake strikes chances are I am stuck in the city.
If, not when?

I have added the ultimate tool to my survival capability, vision - I got rid of my glasses and contact lenses by having lasik surgery.

For those who wear glasses with a strong prescription, there is a constant nagging background fear of being in a survival situation and losing or breaking that most fragile and necessary of lifelines.

No more worries for me now on that account. I highly recommend those who wear strong prescription lenses to consider it.
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Old September 3, 2005, 11:39 AM   #49
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This may sound looney to some, but my prefered SHTF vehicle would be a full-blown semi with a sleeper and dromedary box. There's more than enough room for the wife and I, the dromedary box is basicly a shed behind the cab used for storage on moving company trucks so there would be tons of room for necessary gear, it's big enough to handle obstacles that would cripple most full-size SUVs, and with 300 gallons of fuel on board it has nearly a 2000 mile range. The fact that it's diesel makes it feasible for me to carry the equipment I need to produce my own fuel from waste vegetable oil if needed. Why a rig and not a diesel RV? RVs are built too light and flimsy. Rigs are much sturdier, more powerful, and have better ground clearance. It would probably be wise to consider some sort of "up-armoring" procedure since it is a big target. Of course, this is no help to somebody without a CDL.
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Old September 3, 2005, 02:01 PM   #50
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You pump it!

Quote:
There have been a couple of mentions of a hand operated gas pump / siphon. Does anybody know an online source or KMart/Walmart/Home Depot?
Thanks
K-mart/Wal-mart will have the small bulb type that you use to syphon cars, they are about $15 last time I looked.

www.northerntool.com
Check here for a larger capacity pump with a longer hose for underground/semi-truck bulk tanks.
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