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Old August 28, 2005, 11:22 PM   #1
jerpoh
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The Ultimate Hunting Scope Question

Everyone talks about the best scope in a middle price range and it always comes down to a Leupold, Nikon, and Bushell. So let's say you're set on buying a 3-9x40 scope, which would you choose between a leupold VX-I, a Nikon Bushmaster, or a Bushell Elite 3200? They all run around $200-230 with a lifetime warantee and all claim to be 100% waterproof and fogproof. Which scope would you choose out of the three (or even throw in one of your own in the same price range) and why?
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Old August 28, 2005, 11:40 PM   #2
sum-rifle
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I would go with the Bushnell 3200 of those three choices.
The VX-1 has friction adjustments not click for windage and elevation. I am not sure about the Nikon, but I believe the Bushnell has click adjustments.
They are all three very good clear scopes and you would be served well by any of them.

I would however suggest the VX-2 Leupold over the other 3 partly because of the reputation for quality and personal preferance for the Leupold and the click adjustments which I prefer.
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Old August 29, 2005, 12:52 AM   #3
308LAW
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Burris Fullfield over all of the above, its a much better scope, another choice is the Sightron S2
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Old August 29, 2005, 01:08 AM   #4
Wildalaska
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leupold.

Best QC and warranty service in the industry.
Equally bright or better than equivalent in price range.
Sturdier than any others.
its the standard by which scopes in its price class are measured.

This is coming not only from a person who usese leupold but sells scopes too...and margins are a lot higher on the competition than they are on leupold.

A word about Burris...their scopes are overly heavy and fragile. Their customer service is the WORST in the industry. We do not sell them nor will we reccomend them.

WildleupoldasaremostpopularinAlaska
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Old September 21, 2005, 01:48 AM   #5
trooper3385
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Burris

With the 3 choices you listed, I would go with the Burris fullfield without a doubt, especially in that price range. Its going to be much better than the leupold VXI or II and definetly the Bushnell. I don't know to much about the Nikon. I have a Burris in a 3x9x50 in a fullfield on my 7mm weatherby mag and it works great.
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Old September 21, 2005, 01:22 PM   #6
Art Eatman
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One of my Leupolds sat over a few thouand rounds of .30-'06, beginning in 1973. Another is on a .243 with about a thousand rounds through it; a 1982 model. Both have survived thumps and knocks and involuntary descents down steep slopes without losing zero.

I don't worry about clicks vs. friction or repeatability of adjustments on a hunting rifle. "Set it and forget it" except for the occasional minor adjustment from year to year when checking the zero.

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Old September 22, 2005, 03:14 AM   #7
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I have a burris on my 44 revolver, the scope somehow screwed up the first time out at the range. Something inside fell into the view of the scope. Anyways, I called burris and they had me ship it in. Turn around was pretty fast. I can't complain about the customer service.
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Old September 22, 2005, 10:08 AM   #8
Wildalaska
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Quote:
I can't complain about the customer service.
Wait till it breaks again...and again...andd again...and again....and they have you ship it in again...and again...and again...and again...

WildtheworstAlaska
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Old September 22, 2005, 05:57 PM   #9
maximuss
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I don't know about Bushell. Nikon is very well made, so is Leupold. I would go for Leupold because of their warrenty and you can deal with them in States vs. Japan.
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Old September 22, 2005, 08:57 PM   #10
LeeF
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Thanks Wild.
I have been looking at the Leupold VX-2 for three or four weeks and needed a push over the edge. I need the clicks of the -2.
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Old September 23, 2005, 10:17 AM   #11
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What about a Weaver K4 ?? I bet they have been used by alot of hunters throught its history And alot seem to be really old when I look at used guns so they must be reliable

Dimitri
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Old September 24, 2005, 07:42 AM   #12
Jack O'Conner
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In my opinion 2X-7X is the best variable for nearly all big game hunting. Higher power such as 10X is almost never used except by antelope hunters at long long range.

I like a bright scope with no blurriness around the edges. It needs to be tough enough to last a decade or so. My favorites are Simmons 44 MAG and AETEC. Their Pro Hunter 2X-7X is budget priced but still a good one. My 30-30 carbine wears this economy scope and it has held its zero in below zero weather with no fogging or amy problems at all.

Of the scope you mentioned, the 3200 would be my choice as well. Combination of features, warranty, and pricing. Look at cheaperthandirt.com for competitive pricing.

Hope this is helpful.
Jack
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Old September 24, 2005, 10:16 AM   #13
Art Eatman
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For somebody whose primary deal is deer hunting, who doesn't need the precision required for varmint hunting at longer distances, the old Weaver K4 is hard to beat.

4X is all you need for deer to around 300 yards or so, given the size of the kill zone. The field of view is plenty good if you need to make a shot on a running deer.

I never really kept track, but I guess I killed a dozen or so deer with a K4 on my rifle before messing around with variables...

Art
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Old September 24, 2005, 10:33 AM   #14
Wildalaska
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Quote:
In my opinion 2X-7X is the best variable for nearly all big game hunting.
Except the 2-7 generally has a smaller objective hence less light transmission

Quote:
My favorites are Simmons 44 MAG and AETEC
With all due repect those foreigh made junk scopes are not in the same class as leupld or Nikon

WildonwardandupwardAlaska
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Old September 24, 2005, 12:51 PM   #15
Charles S
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Quote:
With all due repect those foreigh made junk scopes are not in the same class as leupld or Nikon
Alaska,

I think you are being hard on Simmons. I researched and decided that the Simmons ATEC was going to be the scope for my newest project. It was Simmons' flagship scope. I looked at it in the store and outside, it was very clear. The adjustments seemed to feel precise.

I put the ATEC on my Virgin Valley custom Thompson Center Encore. This was configured as a 300 Winchester Magnum rifle with a 27 1/2 inch Shillen barrel wood furniture completed by Virgin Valley.

The Simmons ATEC did not break on the first shot. It broke on the second.

LOL. I agree with Alaska 100%. I have a Nikon Monarch scope and the rifle now and I am very pleased.

I would vote for Leupold or Nikon based on my experience. No problem with Bushnell just a lack of experience.

Charles
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Last edited by Charles S; September 24, 2005 at 09:13 PM.
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Old September 24, 2005, 02:23 PM   #16
Pointer
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Among the cheaper ones line...

NIKON is the best...

But don't buy the cheaper ones... the value of the higher end is well worth the difference in the price.

Among the higher end... Leupold is best.

When you buy from these three brands, the only significant difference is in the quality of the lenses.

That's why you always hear Leupold mentioned.

The scope is only as good as how long or how well you can see, before sunrise and after sundown.
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Old September 24, 2005, 11:45 PM   #17
Toney
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You know when you finnaly get a good cheap 4X
wally world scope their's nothing tougher .
Tripped and landed ontop of a bsa and crushed
the top cap figured it was toast Still dead on .
But i'm sure all the trouble and ammo to find a
good one is not worth it. But when you got a
rifle shooting good, know where in gonna hit theirs
on point in shooting it anymore .
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Old September 25, 2005, 02:37 PM   #18
454c
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quote by wildalaska
"has a smaller objective hence less light transmission"



I gotta ask for details on this one Wild.My understanding is objective size affects the magnification power(on a variable) that optimum light transmission is achieved.
For example,two variable scopes(a 32 and 50 obj.) of the same make should have the same glass and the same light transmission.The scope with the 32 obj. will reach its optimum light transmission at a lower magnification than the scope with the 50 obj.
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Old September 25, 2005, 10:07 PM   #19
Art Eatman
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For two scopes of equal magnification, the one with the larger objective lens will allow more light through it. The increase is not linear, however. While a 50mm lens is 25% greater in diameter than a 40mm, it doesn't allow 25% more light to come through.

Probably the best discussions/explanations are at the scope makers' web sites.

Art
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Old September 26, 2005, 02:51 AM   #20
trooper3385
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Hey, you should start checking out ebay if you haven't already. Not trying to endorse ebay, but I got a heck of a deal on a Zeiss scope today. I got a 3-9x40 stainless Zeiss for $350, brand new and in the box. Well, I hope it is. I haven't got it yet, but I've had pretty good luck so far. It's pretty hard to beat a Zeiss.
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Old September 26, 2005, 12:54 PM   #21
454c
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Here is one I found.


Exit Pupil
The size of the column of light that leaves the eyepiece of a scope (usually measured in millimeters). The larger the exit pupil, the brighter the image. To determine the size of the exit pupil, divide the objective lens diameter by the power of the scope. IE; a 4x32 scope would have a 8mm exit pupil. 32/4=8.

The maximum the human eye can perceive is 7mm in total darkness. As you get older you pupil will only dilate to 6mm then 5mm.

The 3-9x40 and 3-9x50 will both transmit the exact same amount of light to your eye, IF you place them on the correct power.

50mm scopes are not brighter than 40mm scopes. It is all relative to what power the scope is on. It is easier to explain using a fixed power scope for now. People up to around 40 can perceive around a*7mm exit pupil from the scope, because that is the maximum diameter of their pupil in low light or darkness. So ideally you would want a scope that transmits a 7mm exit pupil, the only problem is how do you know what its transmitting (its easy). Just divide the objective lens size by the power and the answer is the exit pupil or the amount of light that is coming out of the back of the scope. ie: a 6x42 Leupold transmits a perfect 7mm exit pupil (that's why they make scopes and binoculars in strange numbers like 8x56, 6x42, and 9x63. The formula is a little different for a variable scope, you would take the objective lens size and divide it by 7 to determine what power to put your scope on for a 7mm exit pupil (the most your eye can handle). ie: a 3-9x40 would need to be set on 5.7x to produce the desired 7mm exit pupil. A 3-9x50 would need to be set on*7.1x to get a 7mm exit pupil. You see, these two scopes (40mm and 50mm) are just as bright, they just do it on different powers. A larger objective allows you to use your scope on a higher power and still have perfect light gathering. A 3-12x56 transmits perfect light on 8x. A 1.5-5x20 does it on 2.9x.
*
First decide what power you need for what you are doing, then multiply that by 7 and the answer will be the size of objective lens you will need.

All of these formulas for producing the same light with different powered scopes are only relevant if you are comparing scopes from the same manufacturer and the same models. ie: Leupold VX-II. You can't get a BSA 3-9x50 and set it on 7x and expect it to be just as bright as a Leupold 3-9x50, because it is the glass and coatings that primarily determine the scopes ability to transmit light to your eye efficiently.
*
Basically,*a 7mm exit pupil is a 7mm exit pupil regardless of the objective that helped produce it. All things being equal a 20mm scope set on 2.86x will be just as bright as a 56mm scope set on 8x.

When your pupil is constricted in the*day time*a scope with a large*exit pupil*is great for quick shots because the exit pupil is larger than your pupil and you can get a full picture faster.
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Old September 26, 2005, 01:03 PM   #22
Charles S
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454c

That was a well written explanation of exit pupil.

Thanks,

Charles
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Old September 26, 2005, 01:58 PM   #23
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Sooo...when the exit pupil is larger than the 6 or 7mm diameter that a human eye can see, there is no improvement in light transmission. When a 3x9x40 is set on the lower powers, that give an exit pupil greater than 7mm, you will still only see the same amount of light as if it was producing an exit pupil of only 7mm, the additional light is wasted. So don't think if you get a 4x50 you will have a brighter image than a 4x30.
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Old September 28, 2005, 02:27 AM   #24
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Trooper3385

"If it seems too good to be true, it probably is..."

I hope you get what you expected, but...

China is making knockoffs of Zeiss.

Let us know how it goes... I've got my fingers crossed for ya'
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Old September 28, 2005, 09:42 AM   #25
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Bushnell Elite 4200 or 3200

I've not used them but I've read reviews that praise the Bushnell "Elite" Series (4200 & 4200) of scopes as a decent value. I'm considering them myself for my first deer rifle.

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