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Old July 22, 2005, 10:20 AM   #1
Duxman
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Police hunting London bombers shoot man in station

LONDON (Reuters) - Police shot a man dead at a London underground rail station on Friday during a hunt for bombers who struck two weeks after suicide attacks killed 52 rush-hour commuters.

Saying the man was directly linked to an "anti-terrorist" probe, police asked for help in tracing four men in connection with the attacks that caused chaos but killed no one in Thursday's apparent bid to repeat the July 7 attacks.

Police issued photos of the four suspects.

Witnesses spoke of panic as a man of south Asian appearance wearing a heavy jacket vaulted over barriers at Stockwell station on Friday as he was chased, tackled, then shot.

Commuter Teri Godly told how she had stood next to the man early on Friday before police charged in.

"A tall Asian guy, shaved head, slight beard, with a rucksack got in front of me. Shortly after that, as I was about to get onto the train, eight or nine undercover police with walkie talkies and handguns started screaming at everyone to 'get out, get out'," she told Sky News television.

"I've never seen anything like it in my life. I saw them kill a man basically. I saw them shoot a man five times," witness Mark Whitby told BBC television.

"The other passengers were distraught. It was just mayhem, people were just getting off the Tube ... People running in all directions, looks of horror on their faces, screaming, a lot of screaming from women, absolute mayhem."

Looks like Scotland Yard trains its policemen well - 5 shots - no collateral damage....wonder if they were using browning HP's or MP5's like the pictures show.

Does anyone know what the British special branch are issued as standard handguns?

Hooray for the GG's !
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Old July 22, 2005, 10:24 AM   #2
Kevin Quinlan
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Good show Brits. There is one Abdul who won't get his 72 virgins.......more like a 72 year old hooker

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Old July 22, 2005, 11:45 PM   #3
3 weelin geezer
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You say it like its a BAD thing. Where would they get so many virgins for each and all the abduls anyway? Some of them have got to be NOT virgin to make so many of them. Sooner or later they will all be 72. And hookers. Damn!! Just thinking about how much 72 women will nag the poor bastard makes my head hurt. I have enough grief from one.
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Old July 23, 2005, 03:10 PM   #4
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One news report made it sound like they shot him after tackling him... basically 5 shots point blank... so I'm not sure what really went down. Either way the bad guy is 6 feet under, so good game brits.

Also, as of yesterday, the British police have temporarily changed their policy in respect to shooting at suspects. Usually they have a "shoot to stop" policy. However, the news reported that they have changed that and now when shooting at suspects linked to terrorism, they are instructed to "shoot to kill". Mainly because the suspects they're chasing are suicide bombers... you can't exactly take them down quietly. They have a tendency to explode.
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Old July 23, 2005, 04:01 PM   #5
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"Abdul"...

Everyone seems to be celebrating this shooting of an "Abdul"... well, the full story has yet to come out, but from what I have read it seems that he was an unarmed and innocent man, shot in the head while he was down on the ground 5 times at point blank range... nothing to cheer about in my opinion. Maybe some of you guys cheering would like the same treatment???
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Old July 23, 2005, 04:16 PM   #6
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Hey, he ran from the police and "vaulted over barriers" while they were demanding him to stop. Regardless of the guy's guilt or not, he was acting very suspiciously around the subway, and when he continued to head towards the train, in light of the recent past scenarios in London, it made perfect sense to shoot him dead. If he was in fact innocent, all he had to do was stop. You'd have to be a fool to run into the subway with police chasing you after a recent string of terror attacks and think the police are going to treat you lightly. I applaud the Brit's for taking action in a manner that we Americans sometimes don't think the Brit's have in them (all that tea and crumpets.. you know )

On a side note, it appears according to the news today that the man did NOT have anything to do with terrorism. I'm sure the story could change in the future, however, we must not forget that the Brit's acted in a reasonable fashion to stop what they deemed as a threat. There is no reason to feel bad for "Abdul" simply because he was being an idiot.
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Old July 23, 2005, 04:23 PM   #7
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Quote:
"He looked like a cornered rabbit, a cornered fox, absolutely petrified," said Mark Whitby, one of the witnesses. "They pushed him onto the floor, bundled on top of him and unloaded five shots into him. I saw it. He's dead."
Yep, he deserved it - I mean, come on, he's not a white Christian, for one thing, and then on top of that, he ran from police - what can you expect? I think police should be emptying their magazines into the heads of any people who are either not white, or not Christian. They're not f***ing worth anything anyway.
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Old July 23, 2005, 04:27 PM   #8
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Not real sure about shooting a man on his back being held by other cops if I am reading the new reports right. But then maybe this is the tactic for possible bomb holders to prevent detonation? This may turn out to be a (very) bad shoot. Seems to me every time they hand out guns to the Bobbies they screw it up for lack of training and experiance with using them. Either you have guns or you don't seems to me, this handing them out only when its (after) a life or death situation invites over reaction and bad shoots.
I know New Zealand some time ago was trying to recruit cops from other countries that were routine gun carriers to train their normally none gun carrying LEO's. My .02

Carbine you left your scarcasm button on, on purpose right?
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Old July 23, 2005, 04:34 PM   #9
ohyes
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Good deal
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Old July 23, 2005, 04:40 PM   #10
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The victim absolutely committed suicide. After the bombings he runs from the police into a train station? Totally Insane! He couldn't have done a stupider thing. He wanted to be shot, no doubt of that at all.

I expect he was shot while down because his actions and his dress caused the police to have high suspicion that he was a suicide bomber. Given his actions and his dress and the amount of time they had to react, I would think they reacted correctly. The police had a split second to incapacitate him so that he didn't set off the bomb and kill them all. I do not fault the police for that shooting, but I sure do fault the victim for being an absolute idiot and suicidal.
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Old July 23, 2005, 04:41 PM   #11
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Quote:
Carbine you left your scarcasm button on, on purpose right?
I think absolutely no less of someone because of a different country/religion/ethnicity, and the coldness and ignorance of some of these members who still gloat over an innocent man's death is just sickening to me. You guys would do the Klan proud.
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Old July 23, 2005, 05:20 PM   #12
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Listening to the radio ...

... the day this happened, one of the 'eye-witnesses' reported the man was wearing '... some sort of bomb-belt with wires protruding...' or words to that effect. Oddly, I haven't heard that 'eye-witness' repeated. Humpf? This information seems to be incorrect now. Or perhaps this is just the Brits 'toning down' things so as not to panic the commoners. As Cosmolinielover mentioned, the story will change with time.

The question is this: At the time, what were the police thinking?

Did they have 'reason' to shoot the man, thinking he was about to trigger a bomb device? Obviously, they thought they did. Let's see - eight bombings in two weeks... No reason for anyone to be edgy about that, is there? Subject is dressed in bulky clothing of the same nature used to hide bomb belts or vests in other events... No reason for anyone to be edgy about that, is there? Subject attempted flight, toward the potential target (the train) and refused to comply with police directions; No reason for anyone to be edgy about that, is there?

Possibly, Carbine Caleb is right and the British police are really an off-shoot of the KKK; looking for any excuse to kill anyone they don't like. Sort of like I might grow green gossimer wings and fly to the moon. It could happen.
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Old July 23, 2005, 05:35 PM   #13
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Quote:
Carbine Caleb is right and the British police are really an off-shoot of the KKK
What??? I haven't even criticized the British police. I am criticizing those who are cheering the death of an innocent man, because he is an "Abdul".

Quote:
Or perhaps this is just the Brits 'toning down' things so as not to panic the commoners.
Well, I am sure that more information will indeed come out, but given that the British police, who are obviously responsible for whatever happened, are making statements to the press like:
Quote:
We are now satisfied that he was not connected with the incidents of Thursday 21st July 2005.... For somebody to lose their life in such circumstances is a tragedy and one that the Metropolitan Police Service regrets
I don't think this guy was carrying any bombs, no matter what you think - why would an official agency openly admit an error to the world press if there was any doubt in their minds about justification? Just another conspiracy - they're hiding the real truth about "Abdul" to make themselves look bad?
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Old July 23, 2005, 06:44 PM   #14
Whitefalls
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It's the day after people with bombs in their backpacks attempted to blow up buses and trains, he's ignoring a whole slew of police chasing him yelling to stop, he jumps the ticket booth and runs towards the train... and you're supposed to think what? Tackle him and wait for him to blow himself up and taking you with him?

I don't care what his name is, what color his skin is, or what his religion is... the fact that he is running from the police into a train station, ignoring their commands to stop, ignoring the warning shot (as was reported on the news last night) he is BEGGING to be shot. The only REASONABLE thing to assume is that this guy is carrying a bomb.

But I guess the British police are supposed to read minds. If they hadn't shot him and they had all been blown up, everyone would be saying how stupid they were for not shooting him. You just can't win.
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Old July 23, 2005, 07:07 PM   #15
CarbineCaleb
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I will repeat -
Quote:
I haven't even criticized the British police
Rather, it's all the talk here of:

Quote:
- Good show Brits. There is one Abdul who won't get his 72 virgins
- You say it like its a BAD thing. Where would they get so many virgins for each and all the abduls anyway?
- good game brits
- There is no reason to feel bad for "Abdul"
that makes me want to puke. On the record at least, the British police are showing some regard for human life. Can't say that about these "gentlemen" who actually take joy in this tragic and deadly error.
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Old July 23, 2005, 07:24 PM   #16
CarbineCaleb
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In the spirit of Abraham Lincoln's sentiment:
Quote:
Whenever I hear anyone arguing for slavery, I feel a strong impulse to see it tried on him personally.
Those of you laughing and cheering about an innocent man having his head shot to pieces, I'd like to see that fate come to you or to your own son. And then to see how loud your laughter and congratulations would be. Subhuman is the only word I can think of to describe you.
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Old July 23, 2005, 07:58 PM   #17
Whitefalls
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1.) I never laughed or cheered about an innocent man dying. IF he was innocent, then it's horrible he died.

Also, when I made my first post I wasn't aware that the story had changed that he was now thought to be innocent. Either way, the police still reacted in the correct way... which you say you aren't criticizing... which now leaves me baffled as to how I am subhuman.

I was saying I think the British police did the right thing according to the circumstance.

Of course, I'm subhuman, so how could I understand such things anyways. Apparently I'm a racist and a bigot as well and I and any future children I have should be shot. All that coming from a "gentleman". Classic.

I'd also say that while it was a tragic and deadly error, the tragic and deadly errors were all made by the man who was shot by the police... mainly being running from the police into a train station wearing bulky clothes and a backpack, and resisting them after being tackled.
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Old July 23, 2005, 10:32 PM   #18
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Turns out the guy was from Brazil! Didn't speak English? Ran when chased? The whole thing stinks of panic compounded by PC politics and lack of training, bad planning and not being familiar with use of force and deadly force issues, with cops being tasked for the first time to enter a "people are goina die" maybe you, situation. This is why our SWAT teams train 12 months of the year and unlike England (it seems) only handed deadly tools when TSHTF. Not sure under the circumstances anyone is at fault per say except for those that refuse to see the real world. Final .02
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Old July 23, 2005, 10:36 PM   #19
Whitefalls
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Nope. Report said hes been working in england and speaks english very well... so he should know what "STOP! POLICE!" means.

I'm sure none of us know the REAL true story... may never know. I DO feel bad for the guy and his family if he's truly innocent... but I still think, under the circumstances, the police did what was right... but thats been rehashed already. Crazy times.
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Old July 24, 2005, 12:02 PM   #20
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Quote:
Those of you laughing and cheering about an innocent man having his head shot to pieces, I'd like to see that fate come to you or to your own son.
Carbine Caleb's quote.

Sort of the pot calling the kettle black isn't it?
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Old July 24, 2005, 01:22 PM   #21
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butch50: Well I never claimed I was Jesus. And you also probably can't possibly understand Lincoln's thoughts - why he would want to see men who trivialized slavery experience it themselves. Logically inconsistent, right, for man against slavery to want to see another enslaved?

Well, at one level yes, but when the most terrible things befall someone and another is indifferent, or in the case of my friends here, enjoying it, I identify exactly with Mr. Lincoln, and say - let's see that happen to you or your loved ones. The point is, such a person who thinks this way isn't innocent or in any conceivable way, good.

There is no way that lines like (and I repeat this too):
Quote:
- Good show Brits. There is one Abdul who won't get his 72 virgins
- You say it like its a BAD thing. Where would they get so many virgins for each and all the abduls anyway?
- good game brits
- There is no reason to feel bad for "Abdul"
are anything other than cheering, joking, and ethnic slurs. Seeing that as the response to an innocent man's tragic death just makes me sick. And yes, I do think people who think that way are subhuman. It's just a spectacular combination of ignorance, predjudice and extreme hatred - not exactly the highest of human virtues.
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Old July 24, 2005, 01:30 PM   #22
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I agree with you Carbine, right up to the point where you wished they and their sons, should be shot in the head. At that point you not only drifted into their territory but to the extreme far side of that territory.

If you believe it is wrong to jeer and laugh at a man's death, then how much worse is it to actively pray for someone to lose their and their sons lives?
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Old July 24, 2005, 01:35 PM   #23
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Butch50: I am sorry. My point about the loved one is this guy who was shot was someone's son, maybe brother, father, husband. His head was shot to pieces. He made a mistake. But he didn't deserve that. That people can take joy in such a thing just makes me very angry, and very sad, that people can be so ugly.
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Old July 24, 2005, 01:36 PM   #24
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They were plain clothes officers chasing him right? I might run if unarmed and some dude just starts yelling and drawing a gun. Just a thought.
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Old July 24, 2005, 01:39 PM   #25
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These are extremely emotional times, and a certain amount of latitude given to those who express excess zeal would seem to be in order, to and from all of us who are on the good side. Fighting amongst ourselves would seem to be the terrorists cheif aim.
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