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Old July 9, 2005, 01:11 PM   #1
Para Bellum
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Backup knife: fixed blade, double edged, horizontal sheath. Any suggestions?

Hi there,

I am looking for a knife that meets the above criteria.
By now I have one knife in my mind:



I'd prefer a shorter blade (3" is well enough)...
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Old July 9, 2005, 02:03 PM   #2
FLA2760
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Re fixed blade back up

Hi
I too am considering a fixed blade for backup/ general use. I am looking at the Cold Steel Tanto and it seems to be one tough knife. I am intersested in lerning more about the Buck fixed blade that you posted. What is the model#
I am wondering if you carry a backup firearm? I carry my Glock 27 as a primary and sometimes carry my kel tec P32 or NAA .22 magnum as backup.
I am however going to purchase the Taurus 605 5 shot (.357) for a backup.
It is 16 oz and would be no problem in an ankle rig or small of back. My work often takes me into unsavory areas at night and it is comforting to know that I have my Glock and a backup. Also carry pepper spray. The wife says I am paranoid but I have had to use the pepper spray a couple of times and had to pull the Glock one time too. Thank God the sight of the muzzle sent the guy running. Good luck in finding the right knife.
Steve
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Old July 9, 2005, 02:29 PM   #3
stephen426
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Why would you carry a Glock 27 and then a fixed blade for backup? That doesn't make sense. The only place I could imagine carrying a fixed blade is strapped to my leg. With pants or jeans, that just doesn't make for rapid deployment. There are many companies out there that make EXCELLENT folders that are much more comcealable. The best one I have come across so far has been the Benchmade 710 The axis lock is sweet and very secure. It opens very smoothly and the grip is perfect for my hand. It is very easy to open and close with one hand. I own about 5 other Benchmades. I also have 3 Cold Steels and 3 Gerbers. I have gotten many of these knive after getting the 710 but I just keep going back to it.

I carry mine slanted on my waist band behind the cell phone case I normally have on my belt. The knife is completely concealed and can be carried all day without ANY disconfort.

I suggest you guys look into a good folder as they are much more versitile and MUCH easier to carry. If you really want a larger knife, get one of the larger COld Steels such as the Vaquero Grande or the largerVoyager knives. The AUS 8 is pretty good and the knives are really tough. They don't hold an edge like the ATS-34 or S-30V knives though. Knife Blade Steels
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Old July 9, 2005, 02:39 PM   #4
USP45usp
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I carry the Mini-Reflix

http://www.benchmade.com/products/pr...spx?model=2550

It has a clip that I attach to my front pocket, it's sharp as heck (as are all Benchmades that are sold) and it's fast to grab and deploy.

As with fixed blades and auto's, they have to be carried open and not concealed (check your state laws concerning both).

And if you live in a state that doesn't allow auto's, or are fed up with the fed's law, get into the picture and make them recind the law on auto's.

Wayne
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Old July 9, 2005, 03:40 PM   #5
Blackhawk6
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Quote:
Why would you carry a Glock 27 and then a fixed blade for backup? That doesn't make sense. The only place I could imagine carrying a fixed blade is strapped to my leg. With pants or jeans, that just doesn't make for rapid deployment.
A folder is a great knife for EDC. I carry an Emerson continuously. But a folder requires you to access and then deploy the knife. This is not always possible. A fixed blade allows you to get the knife into action faster under some circumstances. With a proper sheath, a fixed blade knife can be concealed IWB or horizonatly on the belt as effectively as a handgun.

Everyone is not subject to the same set of laws regarding the type/length of knife they can carry. It may not be for everyone, but it is certainly a viable tool for the tool box.

On occasion I use a Polkowski/Kaspar Companion. I could not find it on CRKT's website but google yeiled this:

http://worldwideknives.com/CRKT/CRKTHOMEPAGE.htm

The sheath allows horizonatal, IWB and OWB carry as well as neck carry though the knife is a little large for neck carry. Blade length is under 4".

Hope this helps.
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Old July 9, 2005, 03:56 PM   #6
AK103K
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I carry a couple of folders for daily use and back up, but for a fixed blade, I often carry either my Gerber MKII or Blackjack 1-7, both in IWB type kydex sheaths. They hide very well, are comfortable, and very fast to employ. Folders are nice, but a big, razor sharp blade, instantly in your hand is a lot better.



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Old July 9, 2005, 04:03 PM   #7
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Blackhawk,

I'm not sure what you mean about not being able to deploy the knife after accessing it. If your arm is disabled, you won't be very effective with a knife. If you carry an automatic blade like Wayne, then the point is also moot. The Benchmade 710 I carry can be opened very quickly with one hand. A slight flick of the wrist is all the force that is required.

The knife is primarily a tool and can be considered as backup. You know the saying... "Don't carry a knife to a gun fight". Instead of carrying the extra bulk of a large knife and it's sheath, I would carry an extra mag of ammo.


As for Wayne,

I like your knife but would be afraid to carry it clipped to my waistband. I know there is a lock to prevent the blade from flipping open and chopping off Mr. Happy but that also slows down depolyment. I don't like to carry it clipped to my pocket as it is no longer concealed. This is more of a tactical issue rather than a legal one. It is perfectly legal to carry a blade as long as it is under 4 inches.
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Old July 9, 2005, 06:05 PM   #8
tshadow6
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back up knife

If you must have a fixed blade, try the Gerber Guardian. Small. good quality and sharp. It was designed for boot carry, but I've seen them on belts and they should work as neck knives. Or you can try a good quality folder clip knife. Buck, Gerber, Cold Steel, any of the large companies. Stay away from the China made junk.
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Old July 9, 2005, 07:12 PM   #9
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I tend to use a 3 1/2 inch folder, and as that its considered legally a pocket knife and not going to get me in trouble for carrying it under NC law. I tend to carry a Bear Balisong, that has a really good blade on it and is quick enough to deploy and has many everyday purposes from opening packages, cutting fruit, tape, debarking and skinning small animals.

I tend to also carry a multitool with me that includes pliers, bottle opener, can opener, another blade a couple of screwdrivers and so on. It pretty much has any function I needs especially out in the woods and I need to really strip a rifle down.

Of course I have a number of fixed blades from a kabar, a fairbairn sykes, a woodman's pal and so on but out in public thats a tad overkill and will get you in trouble around here by the police or some redneck with a shotgun. Its more a thing I will only tend to use on my own land or if I am out camping.
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Old July 9, 2005, 07:36 PM   #10
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I've heard good things about these so called hideaway knives. One guy in a recent magazine said it made him feel like a "velociraptor" when he had one out.

http://www.hideawayknife.com/main.php
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Old July 9, 2005, 08:46 PM   #11
Blackhawk6
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Quote:
I'm not sure what you mean about not being able to deploy the knife after accessing it. If your arm is disabled, you won't be very effective with a knife. If you carry an automatic blade like Wayne, then the point is also moot.
I should have been more specific in my original post. With a folding knife you need to draw the knife and then open it. With a fixed blade you only need to grab the knife.
Quote:
The Benchmade 710 I carry can be opened very quickly with one hand. A slight flick of the wrist is all the force that is required.
I have no doubt that you can open your knife very quickly. However, circumstances may not always afford you the opportunity to flick your wrist. Fixed or folder may not make a difference if the bad guy(s) are five feet away when you go for your knife. It may make a world of difference if you are wrestling two guys on the ground.

Sometimes the "Go Code" is a guy in a dark alley demanding your wallet and sometimes it is a 2x4 to the back of the head.
Quote:
The knife is primarily a tool and can be considered as backup.
For you. I have been places where my knife was my primary weapon. Guns were not an option. I have been in situations where a knife was a better choice than a gun based on the circumstances. You may consider your knife a tool first and a weapon second but that does not mean it has to be that way for everyone.
Quote:
You know the saying... "Don't carry a knife to a gun fight".
Who said the knife will be employed in a gunfight? There are plenty of situations that justify the use of a knife or gun where the other party does not have a gun.
Quote:
Instead of carrying the extra bulk of a large knife and it's sheath, I would carry an extra mag of ammo.
That is a perfectly legitimate point of view. By all means carry that spare magazine. That does not mean that is the best choice for everyone. A knife affords me a greater range of options than a third spare magazine. But I am me and you are you. Stick with what works for you.

This is not about fixed blades being better than folders or folders being better than fixed blades. Everyone needs to examine their circumstances, determine their requirments and select their equipment accordingly.

It seems to me that Para Bellum has examined his circumstances, determined his requirements and is now asking for recommendations on a piece of equipment to meet those requirements. I see no reason to substitute my judgement for his.
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Old July 10, 2005, 02:53 AM   #12
Para Bellum
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carrying a fixed blade in Boston/MA?

Quote:
A fixed blade allows you to get the knife into action faster under some circumstances. With a proper sheath, a fixed blade knife can be concealed IWB or horizonatly on the belt as effectively as a handgun.
This is exactly why I started this thread.


thanks for the tipp, this seems to be exactly what I am looking for:

Gerber Guardian:


Would carrying this knife concealed be a problem in Boston/MA?



... the knife posted above is a Buck Strider (I guess: Model 890SPX)
Strider ML™, see http://www.buckknives.com/catalog/detail/382/234
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Last edited by Para Bellum; July 10, 2005 at 05:40 AM.
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Old July 10, 2005, 05:42 AM   #13
Para Bellum
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Gerber Guardian Seath Pic?

I couldn't find a pic of the Gerber Guardian's Seath. Does it have loops that allow horizontal carry on the belt in the short of back?
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Old July 10, 2005, 06:47 AM   #14
Para Bellum
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Plastic Knife!?

Hey, I've found something:

COLD STEEL FGX BOOT BLADE II

Specifications:
Weight: 1 oz.
Thick: 6.5mm
Blade: 3 1/4"
Handle: 3 1/2” long.
Material: Grivory with Kraton grip
Overall: 6 3/4"

Quote:
Made from Grivory™— the latest in fiberglass reinforced plastic, and stronger than even the super tough Zytel® we have used in earlier models— they are UV and heat stabilized, making them impervious to the elements.
Any experience with these and this material
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Old July 10, 2005, 08:36 AM   #15
45-70
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Fixed Blade Carry Knife

I use a Boker Applegate-Fairbairn as a boot knife EDC, (here's a picture: http://www.knivesplus.com/BK-AF546-B...oot-knife.HTML ), but I wear desert boots every day. It's also as hard to get at as an anke holster for a handgun, that is, you had better have time to get to it. This is a great knife though. I spend a lot of time at a desk, so it works for me.

I'm thinking of adding/changing to a Fallkniven neck knife that is short enough to wear up a sleeve as well as around the neck. I'm still trying to figure the length in the sheath. The Boker is about a half inch too long for my arm. The Fallkniven may also be what you are looking for.

http://www.fallkniven.com/g1/g1.htm
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Old July 10, 2005, 08:37 AM   #16
Runsalone
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read first...

http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/knifelies.html
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Old July 10, 2005, 08:59 AM   #17
45-70
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Thanks, Runsalone, that's a great article.

I don't intend my knives for fighting, so this article really just confirms what I have them for. Very interesting read.
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Old July 10, 2005, 09:39 AM   #18
claude783
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Aww Gentlemen: My personal folding knife is a little buck...but, I would suggest you check out:

Bowen Belt Knives

They have a money belt which I use, and the buckle is already a fixed bladed knife...if your wearing your trousers you got a blade with you!

Although they do make a double edge, I prefer the single, I think it would take a little more abuse if needed...not break should the tip happen to snag a bone or zipper!
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Old July 10, 2005, 10:26 AM   #19
Blackhawk6
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Quote:
I couldn't find a pic of the Gerber Guardian's Seath. Does it have loops that allow horizontal carry on the belt in the short of back?
IIRC, it does not. It is hard plastic with a spring-steel clip similar to what you might find on some models of IWB holster. I do not believe the sheath will support your carry requirements.
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Old July 10, 2005, 10:53 AM   #20
Para Bellum
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Quote:
Thanks, Runsalone, that's a great article.

I don't intend my knives for fighting, so this article really just confirms what I have them for. Very interesting read.
Thanks from me, too. I am into martial arts for two decades and I'd never "fight" against a knife. But I believe that a knife can be a good last resort if other skills fail or no distance-weapon is at hand.
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Old July 10, 2005, 12:07 PM   #21
AK103K
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Para Bellum,
The early Guardian's had accessory sheaths(made of leather) that allowed a number of different carry modes, including the method you want. I had one and it did have its uses, but I never really liked the Guardian as its too small for my liking. I like my MK1 better and my MKII's the best. Maybe check EBay if your interested in the Guardians accessory sheath, you never know, it may turn up there. Another place you may find what your looking for sheath wise is here:
http://www.survivalsheath.com/sheaths/index.htm
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Old July 10, 2005, 01:41 PM   #22
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stephen426,

Yes, you do have a lock that you can deploy to ensure that the blade doesn't open but it's really not needed. The button to deploy the blade is even with the metal of the handle so it's hard to press it with normal everyday pocket carry (keys, lighter, etc..).

If you're in the state of Oregon, you cannot carry a fixed blade or an auto that is concealed. You may if the fixed blade is less than 4 inches but anything else must be in the open. That is why I just clip the knife to my pocket and not my waist or inside of the pocket (loose).

As with any knife that you use, either for offense or defense (offense as in normal everyday cutting ropes, boxes, etc..), you should be up on the state and federal laws (like I can't carry my knife into Florida, either by driving or by flying, due to the federal laws about carrying auto's across state lines, even though the knife is legal in Oregon, and in Florida).

As for not being able to have a gun in certain places, in Oregon that is true only on federal land and federal courthouses (but some in the legislature wish to change that to include schools, state court houses, and let the counties have their own regulations). But also again, the places right now that are "gun free" are also "weapons free" which includes knives, auto's or not. But let's say that I lived in Florida with more restrictions on places and if I can't have the gun then I have the auto.

As with guns, you have to practice with whatever knife of choice. I can put my hand on the knife, place thumb on button, pull, and then flick the blade as soon as it clears.

Wayne
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Old July 10, 2005, 01:56 PM   #23
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Auto blades are illegal in North Carolina and you are lucky to be able to carry a blade 4 inches long. Most states make it illegal for it to be over 3 to 3 1/2 inches. They are banned not only around federal buildings and land here, but also within 1000 feet of schools, most banks and so on, courthouses and many other places and the same is true in many states, regardless of concealed weapons licenses. Its just unlikely that if you do use a fixed blade on anyone that you won't be up for a murder or attempted murder charge. They seem to be alot harsher with knives than they do firearms and you have to be really careful not to put yourself in trouble.
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Old July 10, 2005, 02:52 PM   #24
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ParaBellum is in Europe so the gun issue may be moot therefore mags and back-up guns could be out of the question.

Blackhawk 6 is spot on.

You can fumble opening a folder under stress.
You can be limited in your movements if in contact with your opponent that can prevent a "flick of the wrist".
A fixed blade can not fail it's lock and close on your fingers or collapse on impact with your attacker.
A good IWB sheath can allow you to carry a much larger blade knife (7+ in) than you can practically carry in a folder.
Some laws allow carry of larger fixed blades than allowed on folders.
Civilian "gunfights" in the U.S. almost always involve 3-5 rounds fired so the 2 spare mags you carry can be reduced to 1 spare and a good knife without loosing anything and gaining much.
A knife is part of the force continuum that never jams and never "runs out of ammunition" and should never be negleted in your self-defense training.

The Buck pictured is not double-edge, but can be easily sharpened to be (as can the CRKT Kasper Polkowski).
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Old July 10, 2005, 06:20 PM   #25
k_dawg
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I look at the situation most likely requiring me to use a knife:

Most likely it will be:

1) very close ( probably body to body )
2) unable to use my firearm ( right hand )
3) no room to move/manouver/etc

At this point, I will need to be able to draw, and use in a stabbing motion to the chest region.

I have carried a ProTech godfather automatic knife for years. I carry it horizontally on my left side. I can grab it, and deploy the blade and thrust in a single motion quickly.
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