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Old July 4, 2005, 08:54 PM   #1
westphoenix
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Indoor Range, Failure to Fire, What do you do?

Only happened a couple times to me.
But what is the best thing to do if you pull the trigger,
no shot is fired.
Of course keep the weapon pointed down range.
But once you pull the cartridge out of the chamber, what should you do with the cartridge.
By just setting the cartridge on the bench pointing downrange aren't you still in danger if it is a delayed fire?
I mean cant the casing exploded and shoot outwards?
Thanks,
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Old July 4, 2005, 09:15 PM   #2
auberg
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What I was taught about a slow fire (or no fire) is to keep the weapon pointed down range at least 30 seconds, up to a minute if you want. At that point you can be fairly certain that it won't fire. Place it where you can keep track of it, and on the way out, give it to the people at the range, and tell them what happened with it. More than likely they will either disassemble it, or drop it into another gun and try to get it to fire.
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Old July 4, 2005, 09:56 PM   #3
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I always wait ten seconds, which is surely at least three times as long as necessary (I have had a few hangfires, none anywhere near a second's delay, all with VERY old military ammo), and try the same cartridge again. Most go off the second time. Most indoor ranges I use (clubs) have dud boxes for rounds that don't go off.
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Old July 5, 2005, 06:17 AM   #4
71Commander
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After a 30 second wait, if nothing happens, I rack the slide, ejecting the cartridge. I put the cartridge in my pocket and bring it home and pull the bullet.
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Old July 5, 2005, 07:47 AM   #5
stephen426
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I wait about 10 seconds and then drop the mag. I rack the slide, put the bullet back in, and try to fire it more time. If it goes off, great. If not, I just chuck it in the garbage.
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Old July 5, 2005, 05:18 PM   #6
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Quote:
stephen426 I wait about 10 seconds and then drop the mag. I rack the slide, put the bullet back in, and try to fire it more time. If it goes off, great. If not, I just chuck it in the garbage.
I do the same except I throw the bullet at the target!! Who wants to waste a round? Just kidding of course. I give it to the range master to dispose of. Then it is their liability. $.25 isn't worth me taking the risk.
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Old July 5, 2005, 05:31 PM   #7
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30 second wait. Pocket it & pull it.
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Old July 5, 2005, 05:41 PM   #8
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Wait about ten seconds, pull the hammer back and try again. If no bang then wait a couple of seconds, drop the mag, rack the slide, and then look to see if my fire pin even hit it. If so then I figure it's a dude, if it didn't then I put pistol away, something is wrong with firing pin (had this happen to me on a old gun that my dad had, firing pin broke).

Wayne
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Old July 6, 2005, 08:14 AM   #9
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I usually wait a few seconds with the gun pointed down range. Then I pull the trigger at least 3 more times to see if it goes off. One of my buddies had some crappy Egyptian 9mm that would fire occasionally after 1 hit of the primer, sometimes it would fire after the 2nd or even 3rd hit. Good training ammo for those who have a flinch, though.
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Old July 6, 2005, 03:09 PM   #10
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id try the round again if it wasnt a hangfire. f it doesnt work a second time then it is safe to put on the table for the rest of the time spent shooting. if it is an unusually lokg cook off and the round does blow, the result wont be as bad as youd think, all that pressure now has somewhere to go and would most likely just rupture the case and move the head a bit. ofcourse ive never seen magnum calibers do this, but according to hatchers notebook its perfectly safe
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Old July 6, 2005, 11:00 PM   #11
Shawn Dodson
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This being the "Tactics and Training" forum, I suggest:

1) Misfire.

2) Tap, roll & rack.

3) Drive on.

When you're done shooting your string, and it's safe to do so, retrieve and inspect the misfired cartridge for a light primer strike. If the primer indentation appears normal, it's possible the primer anvil is off center (defective primer).

If it were me, I'd load it in a magazine and give it another go. Another misfire? Discard it in the defective cartridge bin. (Your range *should* have one. If not, ask the staff what you should do with it.)
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Old July 7, 2005, 12:47 AM   #12
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Read the post by Sir William...

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...d.php?t=175134
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Old July 7, 2005, 10:06 AM   #13
mfree
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Well hopefully you'll do what we tell you, which is:

1. keep gun pointed downrange 15-20 seconds
2. eject round if semiauto, proceed shooting if revolver
3. either save round to try it again or send it off with the rest of the brass.
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Old July 7, 2005, 02:43 PM   #14
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I have to completely agree with Shawn Dodson. The immediate action for a Type I (doesn't fire) malfunction is Tap, rack ready (or fire). You will fall back on your training when it counts.
There is that story of the CHP officer who was found dead after a gunfight. In his hands they found the brass from his empty cylinder (had revolvers then). At the time, officers were programed AT THE RANGE to hold onto their brass and pocket it for cleanup later. The CHP officer did exactly as he had been doing AT THE RANGE.
Westphoenix, please train as if your life depended on it.
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Old July 7, 2005, 03:01 PM   #15
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+1. The reason you wait is to see if the round will discharge after a slower than normal ignition burn. The problem is that if you condition yourself to wait, you'll do so in the "real world." So, do a fast tap, rack, bang and 99 times out of 100, the round will be out of the chamber before it can possibly ignite. Once out of the chamber, at worst you're looking at a minor bang with some frags going around. A lot less dangerous than taking yourself out of a gunfight.
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Old July 12, 2005, 11:56 PM   #16
Dog Confetti
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It's a cliche, but TRAIN LIKE YOU FIGHT. I'd have to advise against getting in the habit of waiting 30 seconds before you clear a malfunction.
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Old July 14, 2005, 03:54 PM   #17
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If it doesn't fire, my Taurus has second strike (and third and fourth) capability. I just pull the trigger again and give it another try, Never had one that didn't go on the second try. But, if it were to again not fire, I'd wait at least 30 seconds, then chuck it in the "dud" bucket at the range.
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Old July 14, 2005, 05:33 PM   #18
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.22lr's are the exemption in my book. I've occassionally had a round that DID go off after a good 5 or 6 seconds. So, I count to myself and wait when I have a hangfire. 10 seconds, recock and fire. That almost does it. If it doesn't, wait another 10 seconds, eject.. go on.
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Old July 15, 2005, 03:12 PM   #19
HighValleyRanch
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Tap, rack & fire caution....

Recently at a CCW course, this incident happened to me:
As taught in the course for a type one malfunction, failure to fire, we were taught the tap, rack and fire procedure.
During a practice course of rapid fire on the line, I encountered a click after the trigger on my glock was pulled. No fire.
Assumed that the slide did not hold open after the last shot and racked the slide to check. Saw that there was a case in the chamber, and racked the slide again to eject. Case gone, ejected the current magazine, popped in a second full magazine and released the slide. Slide did not go foward all the way, and would not fire. Locked the slide back again and second time it would not close again. By this time I decided to slow down and really check what was happening, perhaps a bad ejector? By this time the RCO came over to see what was happening. He looked down the barrel after emptying the chamber and mag and could see a bullet lodged in the chamber!!!
Good thing that it was lodged in the beginning of the riflling, otherwise the next round would have loaded and kaboom!!
We finally determined that perhaps the first round did not go off due to bad primer or no power. (match grade commercial reloads)
When I racked the slide, it jammed the bullet into the rifling, but pulled the case off the rear, and thus the bullet remained lodged in the barrel.

So... before you tap, rack and fire, remember that incident.
Still practice it, though....
Thought it was tap, rack, look and fire.
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Old July 15, 2005, 05:46 PM   #20
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Another caution about Tap & Rack

This happened to me. I had a failure to fire, so I tried to tap and rack. The slide would not pull back. I tried a couple of different positions to rack the slide. I switched hands to try and get a better grip. No luck. I turn the pistol on its side with muzzle pointing down range to look at my pistol. I was so caught up in the jam that I did not pay attention to where my finger was. BOOM! I now have 9 2/3 fingers. If the situation does not require a tap & rack I would wait with the muzzle pointed down range.
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Old July 15, 2005, 06:28 PM   #21
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On the range, wait in case of a hangfire. If you do a quick "tap rack" you might find the round going off under your hand or in your face. In a combat situation you may have to take a chance, but a regular range is a place where safety comes first, not a place to spray rounds as fast as you can.

Train as you fight is CRAP, has no place on a regular range, and is a damned good way to hurt yourself or someone else. If you don't have the brains to be able to tell the difference between deadly combat and a range intended for recreational shooting, then you don't have the brains to control any deadly weapon.

If cops want to play those games and shoot each other on their own (lawsuit free) ranges, or you want to play movie "special agent" at some exotic training area, fine, but "shoot now, think later" combat drills have no place on civilian ranges.

And just in case I have not made it clear, I have had experience with "combat" shooters. And the next time some idiot in cammies does a tap and rack with his damned "combat" gun pointed at my guts, I am going to put him in a "deadly combat" situation right then.

Jim
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Old July 15, 2005, 10:57 PM   #22
BreacherUp!
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Quote:
Train as you fight is CRAP, has no place on a regular range, and is a damned good way to hurt yourself or someone else. If you don't have the brains to be able to tell the difference between deadly combat and a range intended for recreational shooting, then you don't have the brains to control any deadly weapon.
Jim, that , my friend, is the WORST DAMN BS I have ever read on a forum or on a range in my entire life. Stick to shooting soda cans and NRA targets. Refrain from giving life saving tactical tips to shooters b/c you know Bo Didiley! Yes there are a few "horror" stories here about Type I IAs. But, to train otherwise is foolhardy.
Jim, I just read your whole thread. Pull you skirt up and get over it. You are whining against the most basic of IA drills.
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Old July 16, 2005, 12:11 PM   #23
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Jim, I've gotta try real hard not to get banned right now...people who fear guns, an fear training with them, are some of the most dangerous gun handlers out there.

Under duress you will NOT rise to the occasion...you will sink to the level of your training!
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Old July 16, 2005, 08:32 PM   #24
Shawn Dodson
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Tap, roll & rack clears three types of misfires: 1) failure to fire, 2) improperly seated magazine (one-shot wonder), and 3) failure to eject.

Hence, tap, roll, rack, and drive-on.

I regard any failure to fire when the trigger is pressed to be a "misfire."

Last edited by Shawn Dodson; July 17, 2005 at 07:27 PM.
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Old July 18, 2005, 09:20 PM   #25
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I'm gonna go with Jim on this one.

The exception would be if you can train on your own range or a range where everyone has agreed to abide by other than the basic firearm safety guidelines.

But if you're on the line next to other shooters and you get a misfire, you'd be wise to keep the muzzle pointed downrange for 30 seconds. If you eject a hangfire that bursts and injures the shooter(s) next to you, you'd better have some pretty impressive liability insurance. Cause any BASIC firearm safety course material is going to show that you didn't exercise proper caution/follow the accepted procedures in dealing with your misfire/hangfire.

My guess is that very few shooters are going to happily to carry your brass home from the range in their faces just so you can feel tactical.
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