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Old July 3, 2005, 09:32 PM   #26
U.F.O.
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Why do anything? Your dog's attention, alone, had the most aggressive bad guy running back to the car. Stay in condition orange until the car leaves and continue your walk.

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Old July 3, 2005, 09:48 PM   #27
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scenario 2 a few years ago.

This was also posted in another forum awhile back

Yesterday while I was in the bathroom I heard the door to my apartment open, it was about time for my wife to come home from work so I thought little of it (and yes I have a bathroom gun).
About 5 minutes later I went into the living room and she wasn't home but the door that I was positive I locked was unlocked, I was still not overly concerned because she may have gone to the soda machine or laundry room.
Then she called me on the phone to tell me she was still at work .

Now I was getting concerned because I knew for sure I had locked the door, or was the old age thing creeping up on me, and did I really hear someone inside or was it the neighbors on the other side of the thin apartment walls.

The neighborhood is not exactly bad, but we have had our problems (like the 3 people murdered across the courtyard last year) and the management seems to be lowering their standards recently, both in help and tenants.

Then the door starts to open slowly, seconds after my wife told me she was 10 miles away waiting on a ride.
Nobody else should be coming into my apartment at that time announced or unannounced.
I took my defensive position with my handy 12ga. I have never actually seen the blood drain from somebody's face before.
She went from a mischievious smile to wide eyed jaw on the floor, ghost pale in about 1/10 of a second.
She claims I held it on her for 5 minutes but I swear as soon as I recognized her I raised the muzzle.

Now comes the reason I joined this forum. We've had our you're paronoid--you're stupid argument.(she's still at her aunt's, so I'm not sure who won) Now it,s your turn to pick apart what did I do wrong , what would you have done different.
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Old July 3, 2005, 09:50 PM   #28
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Quote:
Your dog's attention, alone, had the most aggressive bad guy running back to the car.
The dog's attention was on playing in the woods until the guy was almost on us.
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Old July 3, 2005, 09:58 PM   #29
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While returning from shooting crows

one day, driving on a 4 lane interstate, a van decided to drive the same speed as me in my bling spot. After a few minutes, with plenty of room to change lanes, I went in front of him to pass the car in the right lane. Well, he didn't like that very much and gassed it so that he was inches from my bumper. Of course, I touched the brake to get him off my a$$. This was a few years ago before I watched nascar races and learned about "drafting". Anyway, he didn't like that much either. Within a few miles, I was going 90 mph and so was the upset van guy. I was just trying to get away from the guy (and win the race ) just kidding..... when the situation got serious with him inches away at that speed, so I (in my 23 year old judgement ) decided to show him my shotgun by sticking it out the window while he was behind me. He immediately backed off, and I returned to a comfortable 75 mph.
Fifteen miles later, I turned off the interstate onto a 2 lane road and went another 10 miles when a state trooper went by me going the opposite direction really really fast with his blues on. As I looked in the rearview mirror, I saw his brake lights come on. Within a mile or so, I got my shotgun back into it's case just in time to come around the corner to two state trooper cars blocking the road with the troopers laying over the hoods and their guns drawn I stopped, rolled down my windows and hung both hands out. The trooper came up and I informed him of what happened ....... that I was fearing for my life and decided to "show" the gun to make the van back off. He asked if the van guy had a gun and I said that he only had the van to kill me with. He said that the next time such a thing happens, to pull off the road and if the guy decides to pursue me.... kill him. No $hit. That is what he said. Then he got back in his car and they all left. I sat there a while before leaving
That was 17 years ago and I still remember it well. I have changed my attitude some and just drive without making eye contact. There is no telling how many drivers think I'm "#1".
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Old July 3, 2005, 10:16 PM   #30
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And finally #3 from about 20 years ago

I was working for a pest control company that used the cheapest vehicles they could find.
My S-10 had a bad gas tank that had to routinely be drained to get the rust and other injector clogging contaminants out of it.

One day, in a pouring rain, I was trying to get onto the expressway when the truck started lurching, spitting, and sputtering. The truck speed dropped to about 10 to 15 MPH.

The guy in the PU behind got irritated and crawled up my tail pipe, backed off and did it again. When he tried the third time I did a very quick brake check to let him know that I was not in the mood to play the game.
It was pouring, my truck was dying on an on ramp with no break down lane to pull into. He would just have to wait.

As I made it on to the highway my truck started to drive a little better and I pulled to the far right lane. PU boy got a running start and acted as though he was going to ram me from behind like some weird version of chicken.
As he got close, but not to close I brake checked again ( I was a 24 yo having a bad day) He locked up his brakes on the wet pavement a slid sideways.

He got another running start and was heading for me again. This time I was through with it. If he got close I was going to lock up the brakes, consequences be damned.

But instead he pulled up next to me and was trying to push me into the concrete embankment.

I pulled my just bought that morning unloaded 6" .357 and leveled it at his head.

He locked up his brakes as he was steering away from the gun and slid into the ditch on the other side of the highway.

If the gun had been loaded I have no doubt that I would have shot him ,out of road rage more than the very real threat that he was presenting

It was many years before I wanted to carry a gun in my car again
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Old July 3, 2005, 10:17 PM   #31
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I also live in Miami and know how those drivers can be. I have had a few of my own incidents, but one in particular sticks out in my mind because of the location in which it happened. On the way to my grandmothers house I am driving down her street (one lane in each direction) and about 3 blocks from her house I see a motorcycle pull out from a house and traveling behind me. As I approach my grandmas house, I have to come to a complete stop in order to make a left (cars were coming in the opposite direction) so the cars pass and I go to make my left, the motorcycle comes flying around me, he almost hit ME so anyways he yells something and continues on his way, or so I thought. So I pull in the driveway, get out of the car and start to walk in the house. I get my key in the door and all the sudden I hear a motorcycle pull up. I look back and it is the same guy, he is yelling every obsenity in the book at me asking me what the f**k was my problem. He also starts walking up to the porch. I said "I don't have a problem, if you weren't in such a big hurry, nothing would have happened. So he accused me of being a smartass, but by now he is getting a little too close for comfort. Mind you my 87 year old grandma and grandpa are in the house. I explained to him politely to get back on his bike and leave. He then asked me what I was going to do if he didn't, so I told him I would be more than glad to call the police (police station is 4 blocks away, West Miami PD are dying for some action for those of you who don't know). He then told me that I need to learn how to drive... I told him ok, but likewise. That set him over the edge, so I opened the door and walked into the house hoping he would leave, he didn't. He began banging on the door, I had my grandmother call the police and through the window I explained to him that I saw which house he left out of, so there would be police there if anything were to happen. At this point I drew my firearm (H&K USPc .45) and told myself if he forced entry into the house, he will be shot. Luckily for some reason, he decided to leave, but just as West Miami PD showed up, so I set the gun down in the house, walked outside, and informed the officer what happened. It seems they know this gentleman, and his motorcycle. The officer explained to him that he could be charged with road rage(???) and possibly trespassing. The officer sent him on his way. The officer told me I handled the situation really well, and this guy has been involved in similar incidents, and one day his luck is going to run out. I told the officer "it almost did tonight". The officer laughed and said "why because he almost hit you or you have a gun or something" I said no because he almost hit me, and the officer said "yea sure, so what kind of gun do you carry with that concealed permit" I forgot that he ran both of our drivers license. I told him then we started talking about guns, and he gave me his card and told me if I ever have a problem with this guy to give him a call. I was sure glad he wasn't a jerk and im glad the guy didn't come into the house. I thank god for allowing me to maintain a level head throughout the entire incident.
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Old July 3, 2005, 10:27 PM   #32
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Quote:
"As the dog turned his attention towards the group the guy stopped coming towards us and spun around and ran back to the car."
You didn't give us the information that the bad guy was "almost upon us". It sounded like the dog's presence alone was doing the job.

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Old July 3, 2005, 10:27 PM   #33
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joab said

Quote:
Now it,s your turn to pick apart what did I do wrong , what would you have done different.
What YOU did Wrong??? Man, your married. She has to KNOW YOUR ARMED if you have a "Bathroom" gun!!! She needs to thank god you didnt kill her. What gets me is that she is still at her aunts??? She knew what she did. You acted appropriatly and she thinks your paranoid?? Tell you what, do the same thing with her but when you call, call from a landline so she can see on caller id where you are. Then, Have your friend open the door right afterwards and see how she feels. If I were alone and I came out of the john to see the front door unlocked, I sweep the house then and there. Even if I think I made a mistake not to unlock it, I sweep the house. You were not paranoid enough.
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Old July 3, 2005, 10:31 PM   #34
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Quote:
One night a group of kids drove by and gave the obligatory scream to make us jump one of them standing up through the sun roof yelled "I'm gonna f**k that Asian ass". Apparently we did not give them the necessary response, so after driving about 100 yards they U-turned and came back at us.
The punk that yelled "I'm gonna f** that Asian ass" is obviously waaaaaaaaay
overdue for a good "tune-up" (as they call it in the joint). He is also VERY, VERY stupid, as he has just threatened your wife with grave bodily harm and has opened the door to being on the receiving end of a justiafiable homicide shooting.

Quote:
When the car stopped 2 young men jumped out, one stood by the car and one ran towards us.
When the car stopped, I would've handed the dog's leash and the cell phone to the wife; when the punk got out and started running at me, I would have drawn and "presented the weapon" (as they call it at Gunsite).

Hopefully, by then the punk would've come to his senses. My "rule" is this - if I am in fear of me or my wife being killed or having grave bodily harm inflicted upon us, I have a 20 foot "red zone." If the threat breaks the red zone, I shoot.

So far, I have not had to shoot, and I hope to God I never have to.

However, there are some things worse than shooting and the events that follow.
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Old July 3, 2005, 10:52 PM   #35
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U F O
Quote:
You didn't give us the information that the bad guy was "almost upon us"
My bad. If you notice at the end of the post I said that there was more to the story, I forgot about pt II. I'll have to dig it up

AttackTurtle
That story was posted on another forum awhile back. We had been living with her aunt for awhile before moving to the apartment.
And she was not used to my guns yet. At that time I only had about 20

She had just learned about Americans love of practical jokes and thought she would try it out. Didn't work out the way she planned it.

The apartment was a small one bedroom ,by just merely looking into the front room you had pretty much swept the dump.

But you are correct, at home I tend to operate in condition off white even when something seems a bit off.
I'm working on that
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Old July 3, 2005, 11:04 PM   #36
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When the car stopped, I would've handed the dog's leash and the cell phone to the wife;
The dog is very strong and undisiplined, at the time, and was pulling to the opposite side of where she was.
Her English and knowledge of the area was not good enough to give the 911 operator any of the necessary info.

My biggest fear at that point was that she would latch onto my strong arm and totally disable me.
She in fact did exactly what I hoped she would, which was after she tried to hand me the phone she retreated to my rear and to the left to try to take the dog.
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Old July 3, 2005, 11:19 PM   #37
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Part II of the first story

This was a 2 lane road. Our side had a sidewalk, which we were on. They pulled over on the opposite side of the road probably 50 to 60 feet away. figuring that the street is 30 ft wide and the sidewalk was about 20 feet off the road (these are guesstimates, which I suck at)

I picked a point in the road as his point of no return. A black spot in the road that I guessed was about 30 feet from where I was.
At that point I would let go of the dog , more to get rid of him than anything else,and draw to low ready as there should have been no mistaking my posture as the " I'm gonna draw any second" position. (Think the Earps just before Doc blew Billy the kiss)

here comes the detail
At that exact black spot in the road he stopped, bent down and picked it up. As he ran back to the car he put his baseball cap ( the black spot), that had blown off his head when he was hanging out of the sunroof, back on his head, resumed his middle seat in the car, and the other guy got back in
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Old July 3, 2005, 11:28 PM   #38
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joab... I don't like to quarterback, but since you asked. As soon as I saw a door open, a kid jump out and start running, I would have dropped everything in my hands and drawn. If the kid didn't stop IMMEADIATLY (within reason of course) as soon as he saw my weapon, I would shoot. It's just that simple. Absolutely NO ONE will charge my wife after threatening to rape her and live to tell the tale!

All in all I feel you were very lucky that he was after his hat, not you. I do not personally feel that 30 feet is far enough away to safely draw at a man who is closing at a run.
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Old July 3, 2005, 11:38 PM   #39
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Quote:
As soon as I saw a door open, a kid jump out and start running,
I agree. I may not have done it, but I agree that I probaly should have.

That's actually the part of the whole story that bothers me the most
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Old July 4, 2005, 01:03 AM   #40
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When I lived in San Diego, we had a high school and an elementary school at the end of the street, about 3 blocks away. The high school kids had to come down our street to get to the elementary school to pick up siblings. They would then run back down our street at about 35-50 mph. I would occasionaly sit on the front porch with a camera and photograph them as they went by. That would pi$$ them off.

I had one car of about 5 high schoolers of gang affiliation stop in front of the house and get out of their car. As they came across the tree row and reached the sidewalk, I slid out of my chair and dropped to a kneeling position with my strong hand on my hip, ready to draw. They stopped yelling obscenities long enough to hear me ask, "Which one of you is the leader of this bunch?" One of them yelled back, "Why the f$$$ do you want to know?" I answered, "Because I want to know which one to shoot first." They left.

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Old July 4, 2005, 03:15 AM   #41
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joab

If someone had made that remark to my wife(if I was married) and then moved towards her I woulda drawn on him right then. Wouldnt have shot but I would defitently would have drawn and had he even taken an extra step or reached for anything in his pocket I probaly woulda cooked him. Just gets me really riled up when f*cktards try to act tough sh*t with their buds and then try to prove it.
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Old July 4, 2005, 08:19 AM   #42
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Most of you are criticizing me for the same thing that I criticize me for.

I think the first rule of carrying a gun should be, be willing to use it.
I apparently I wasn't as willing to use it as I thought.
There will always be the nagging question "am I right to draw right now"
But sometimes you have to trust your instincts and live with the consequences.

Fortunately this turned out to be a non incident, but if it had not been my hesitation would have left me no option of using the gun to de-escalate, instead I would only have had time to draw and fire.

Now that we have the new law in place, maybe I would not be so slow on the draw
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Old July 4, 2005, 02:03 PM   #43
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i had one yesterday that wasnt very close but my mom commits adultery on my father left and right and well this last guy she did it with was a dope dealer she left him last night he said he was sending his boys down to kill us so i invited him like an idiot well sure enough he sent em but when they saw me in the weeds they kept on going thought i was gonna have a bad night i was trying to conceal myself but my white dress pants for church dont hide well i had just went out and practiced running and shooting i thought it was about to come in handy who knows what will fold out of this
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Old July 5, 2005, 08:41 AM   #44
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Hi Attack Turtle,

Thanks for responding constuctively!

My 850 was pretty quick, as in low 6 second 0-60 and at least 135 mph top end (thats the fastest I've taken it anyways ). I think I would have dusted the Bronco. That is not the point though and I agree with your response. I would be endangering others as would the idiot that would be trying to chase me down.

Hitting innocent bystanders is a very big concern of mine. I would only fire if fired upon and if I had a decent shot. I would not shoot into a crowd of people in other words. My thought with the laser was to intimidate him into backing down. I know this is probably considered brandishing but this guy was ready to run me off the road. He would have smashed me into the median if I didn't slam on the brakes.

As for stopping completely, I agree with your analysis. This is probably what I would have done if the off duty cop did not intervene.

I did not have my girlfriend (now my wife) with me the second time. She was pretty ticked about the whole incident the first time. Apologized for losing my cool and getting us into the situation. She is very cool and accepted the apology.

Attack Turtle, Thanks again for the constructive criticism.
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Old July 5, 2005, 10:21 AM   #45
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This thread has largely been an embarrassment to The Firing Line.

We have people expressing stories of road rage.

We have people telling lurid tales.

We have some plain weird stories.

And then there are... others.

I'm closing this one for the good of the forum.
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