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Old July 2, 2005, 08:15 PM   #1
stephen426
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Close Calls...

I know this will get a little personal, but I hope that we use this thread to learn from each other. Please describe a close call when you almost had to use your gun against someone. Analyze whether or not this was avoidable and what you could have done differently to avoid it.

I'll start with mine... WHICH OCCURED QUITE A LONG TIME AGO IN A GALAXY FAR, FAR AWAY!!!

I was at a traffic light that had just turned red for me. I made a quick stop and then punched it before the cars started moving. (It was a wide intersection with 3 lanes in each direction plus a left turn lane) This idiot who was at a dead stop comes flying past and squeezes past me as the lanes merge into one. He then slows it down to a crawl (20 mph). I get ****** off and flick him off. He slams on his brakes a few times in front of me to **** me off even more. At this point I draw my gun and have it in the low ready position since I am not sure what kind f idiot I am dealing with. I don't present it though. The divider ends and I punch it to blow past him. I pass him and do the same to him. He folows me onto my college campus. I pull into a parking lot and then he comes over from the other side. (this lot has a single road with cars on both sides of it and an entrance on each side) He then proceeds to pull his car up to mine so we are nose to nose. He reaches in his glove box and lays something on his seat. I am in low ready the whole time and would have come up blasting if he moved his hands in an upwards manner. After what seems like an eternity, he backs up and drives past me laughing the whole way. I keep my gun trained on him as he passes but just below the window. My wife, who was my girlfriend at the time was with me.

I have highlighted the questionable actions in yellow and the stupid actions in red. I have thought of a bunch of other actions in retrospect including:
- driving to the campus police and honking my horn.
- telling my girlfriend to duck in case lead starts flying.
- doing the above plus getting out of the car and using the crook of my door as cover, and actually presenting my gun at this point.
- doing the above and then running up to the guys car with the gun leveled at him. (Clearly the most idiotic option) I wasn't really going to do this one but the thought did occur!

Road rage is a problem in many big cities. I have a few more stories to share but the moral is it takes 2 to tango. Cooler heads almost ALWAYS prevail. I could have just play along with his stupid game an let him be. I could have turned down some other street and ended his little game. I thank God nothing happened as there would have been NO positive outcome of this situation at all. In my opinion, a person's ego is often what gets them in trouble.

One final note is to please be constructive in your criticism. We are often quick to judge others but slow to judge ourselves. Try to place yourself in the other person's shoes.
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Old July 2, 2005, 08:43 PM   #2
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[PHP]I was at a traffic light that had just turned red for me. I made a quick stop and then punched it before the cars started moving.[/PHP]

You mean you punched it when your light turned green or you ran a red? Which cars?

Best move would have been to chill out when he started playing with his brakes. If you felt the need to draw, it probably would have been better to just pull over for a minute or so so he continues on and you have many vehicles between the both of you.

The second I realize I am being followed, I drive to a police station.

If he pulled up with my car nose to nose, I would have driven away quickly and found an LEO.

What was your girlfriend doing?? I know mine would have been flipping out.
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Old July 2, 2005, 08:49 PM   #3
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On the way to New Orleans a couple of weeks ago, I was cut off by a young hoodlum in a rice burning boom car. He had his druggie girlfriend in the passenger seat. I had my 1911 in my passenger seat.
I pulled into a little diner and bought myself a cup of coffee and chatted with a cute waitress. I'm not killing anyone to preserve my ego.
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Old July 2, 2005, 08:58 PM   #4
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My light had just turned red. His light had just turned green. I figured, big intersection. If I punch it, I won't be getting in anyone's way. Like I said, the stuff in red is a known blunder. I've gotten a lot better about controlling my road rage. I'll post more exciting stories soon. I do live in Miami so before you guys all pass judgement, understand things are a little different down here:

We have a combination of little old blue haired ladies who can barely see over the steering wheel driving 20 mph in the fast lane.

We have clueless tourists who have no clue where the heck they are going. they cut across 4 lanes of traffic to get off at an exit or suddenly stop in the middle of the road to look for street signs or land marks.

We have recent immigrants who follow the driving laws of their own countries... or the lack of laws of their own countries .

We have crazy locals like myself who only have 2 settings in our cars... Pedal to the metal or stop on a dime.

This makes the woods seem like such a safe place with all their cute little lions and tigers and bears... Oh My! Welcome to our little concrete jungle we call Miami!
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Old July 2, 2005, 09:07 PM   #5
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Quote:
I get ****** off and flick him off
That offense alone is enough for you to lose your carry permit in TX if it is witnessed by an LEO.
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Old July 2, 2005, 09:13 PM   #6
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John,

Are you serious? You can lose your carry permit for flicking someone off? I didn't know you guys were that close to Commie Fornia?

Like I said, THe STUFF IN RED ARE MISTAKES I KNOW I MADE

How about sharing some experiences already or am I the only problem child here? Like I said, please keep the criticism constructive or people will be afraid to post and be ridiculed.
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Old July 2, 2005, 09:22 PM   #7
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XB,

Quote:
On the way to New Orleans a couple of weeks ago, I was cut off by a young hoodlum in a rice burning boom car. He had his druggie girlfriend in the passenger seat. I had my 1911 in my passenger seat.
I pulled into a little diner and bought myself a cup of coffee and chatted with a cute waitress. I'm not killing anyone to preserve my ego.
I here ya, Denny's all around the place. Just turn off, get a cup of java, talk to whomever, and just relax for an hour or 30mins, depending.

Wayne
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Old July 2, 2005, 09:51 PM   #8
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Okay... you guys are beating me to death on that one. Time to post another one that is a little more grey. Mea Culpa on the first one.

I was on the highway in the left lane (3 lane highway in each direction with a concrete divider in the middle). This guy is changing into my lane with me occupying most of it. I assume I am in his blind spot and give him a quick tap of the horn so he knows I am there (and so he doesn't crush me against the barrier). He swerves to the right and then swerves right into my lane. If I have not slammed on my brakes, he would have plastered me into the wall. (I am in a Volvo 850 sedan an he is in a big Ford Bronco) He then slams on the brakes in front of me to toy with me. I pull two lanes to the far right and decide to let it go. He slows down to my speed. I draw at this point but do not present just in case he does something stupid like start a fire fight on a highways. I speed up and he speeds up as well. I would have blown the doors off of him but I didn't want to risk turning this into a high speed game of tag. I am very fortunate a guy in a white Nissan 300 Z pulls in between us and flags the guy down. I think he was a cop and stuck his badge out the window. The guy in the Z waves be on and tells me to take off which I promptly do. End of story. No shots fired.

Things that crossed my mind...

Floor it and dust him. My 850 was a turbocharged model with some mods done to it. I have no offensive stickers or decals so that isn't a factor. in the road rage. I'm a mommy mobile family car (although it did have a spoiler and 16" wheels) so its not a car most people would want to race (total sleeper though).

I was almost wishing I had an integrated laser such as Laser Max and point my gun to him. Bigger car has the right of way unless there is superior fire power involved. If that idiot was using his car as a deadly weapon and actually tried to run me off the road, I feel that I would have been justified if I needed to shoot.

I could have stopped completely but I was afraid the idiot would stop as well. I don't want to get out of the car and fight this idiot.

The problem is there are so many people out there just looking for trouble. Problem is they sometimes find it.
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Old July 2, 2005, 09:59 PM   #9
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Well, did a little research and I am pretty sure that my earlier comment was in error. While you can have your license suspended for disorderly conduct (which encompasses flipping someone off), that particular offense is not one of the two particular instances of disorderly conduct that qualify for a license suspension.

On the other hand, flipping folks off while armed is a poor decision, IMO. People who can't control themselves or who feel they must respond in kind to even passing offenses probably shouldn't be carrying a firearm. The point of a firearm is to provide self-defense as a last resort, not to give someone a little boost of confidence so they feel like they can go around ticking people off at will.

BTW, I've done some pretty stupid stuff while carrying, so I'm not trying to make you out to be a monster. But you posted it for discussion so that's what I was doing.
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Old July 2, 2005, 10:20 PM   #10
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Stephen,
I'm not going to beat you up on this, at least you are honest enough to examine a problem, and see at least part of the problem as yourself. When I was younger, it was the glory days of hotrodding, right at the end of the musclecar era, when you could still buy a used Challenger with a 383 six pack for $1000. Most kids my age met at what we called airport road to race. There was the occasional fistfight, but never any guns. Most of the country kids kept a rifle on their truck's gunrack though.
Today is different. You have chosen to drive dangerously and aggressively. You have chosen to carry a gun. The two are not mixing well. If what you say is true, you are mixing a recipe for catastrophe that in one way or another, sooner or later, adversely affect the rest of your life.
I work the ER as a nurse about two nights a week. I see people in their twenties brought in paralyzed, disfigured, and dying from both gunshot wounds and car wrecks that could have been avoided with a little more maturity and less anger and pride.
I think you need to take a long hard look at things, realize that your wife and children (or future children) deserve a husband and a Daddy and change whatever you have to to preserve your life and freedom.
Basically what I am saying, Stephen, is you CAN die, and be buried and gone forever. Your life IS worth something, and you need to care more about it.
Off my soapbox, flame me if you must.
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Old July 2, 2005, 10:21 PM   #11
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Mad Max goes to the Everglades!!

Road rage and trashing someone / their car, or very probably a innocent bystander that you didn’t see because you are so busy playing head games will let you develop better judgment behind bars.

What you are doing with a gun is just an extension of your serious lack of maturity and judgment with the deadly weapon you are driving. Please put the gun in a safe place and don’t touch it for a year. Perhaps someone else on this board can direct you to a rehab center where you can see the results of your current thinking.

I’m saying this based on many newspaper articles that describe the same type of behavior you are doing – then they list the condition of the victims and who is in jail.
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Old July 2, 2005, 10:23 PM   #12
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I agree with the last two posters. Leave the gun at home until you can figure out how not to draw it every time someone pi$$es you off. You sound like an accident waiting to happen.

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Old July 2, 2005, 10:37 PM   #13
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Did I mention just pulling off and having a cup of Java at Denny's or whereever?

As long as my car isn't in a heap on the side of the ride, and If I get upset or raging mad, just pull off for awhile. What is there that you have to go to? If you have kids, call on the cell or the pay phone, enjoy their voices, don't hear their voices when you are going up, or down, depending.

Five to 60 minutes out of your day isn't going to kill you, being on the road, just may.

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Old July 2, 2005, 10:54 PM   #14
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Whoa Nelly...

Did I mention these events occured in the past??? Is this what happens when people share a little bit of truth rather than one-up-manship or armchair ninja-ing? Did you guys NOT notice that I admit fault for some of my actions? Have you guys never had someone get under your skin and think the wrong thoughts? I have owned guns for over 10 years already. I have never used it in a threatening manner. I have also grown and matured quite a bit. I was hoping this thread could allow other to share their experiences so the younger and less mature members can avoid pit falls like the ones I almost stepped in. I accept fault for my actions, but that is not the point of this thread. Will the self-righteous people take the blinders off and think back to see if there is any thing of value to share from their past? I can take the criticism, but if that is all this thread will be, its pointless to continue.
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Old July 2, 2005, 11:03 PM   #15
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No.....you didn't. Don't you think that might have been a pertinent preface to your original thread?

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Old July 2, 2005, 11:05 PM   #16
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Remember this from a few posts ago?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnKSa
BTW, I've done some pretty stupid stuff while carrying, so I'm not trying to make you out to be a monster. But you posted it for discussion so that's what I was doing.
No one's saying you're the only one who's ever done anything ill-advised, but if you put something on a public forum for discussion, you're going to get discussion. And it's pretty safe to say that not everyone will happen to be wearing kid gloves at the same time...
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Old July 3, 2005, 12:25 PM   #17
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1996 Volvo 850 Platinum 4-door sedan

Quote:
Floor it and dust him. My 850 was a turbocharged model with some mods done to it
I dont know your mods but even turbocharged, your sedan only puts out 240 horses. Given, the most a bronco is going to put out is 210, thats more than enough to keep up with you if your worry is about being chased. You never know if cars ahead of you will block your path of escape. I drive a fast car myself and know its hard not to use them in anger but it useually wont get you anywhere but in trouble faster.

Quote:
I was almost wishing I had an integrated laser such as Laser Max and point my gun to him. Bigger car has the right of way unless there is superior fire power involved. If that idiot was using his car as a deadly weapon and actually tried to run me off the road, I feel that I would have been justified if I needed to shoot.
Im not saying I would never consider it but in general, I think that no good would come from that. Your chances of hitting your target are slimmer and your chances of hitting any innocent are very high. If you feel he was going to run you off the road, its best to stop the car there and pull off the highway. Duty to retreat is still the law till October?

Quote:
I could have stopped completely but I was afraid the idiot would stop as well. I don't want to get out of the car and fight this idiot.
I think you would stand a better standpoint legally and in the real world if you pull off the road. That means You tried to stop the aggression and He followed you to where you retreated. I dont think there was a large chance he was going to stop and fight you. You were still side by side or behind him a little? By the time he realized what you did, you may have been 1/4th a mile away. Then if he did and the unthinkable happened, you did the best you could to try to defuse the situation beforehand.

Seriously though, what was for GF/Spouse doing and what did you tell her? Was she with you the second time?? I have no idea what I would do or say if my girlfriend were with me.
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Old July 3, 2005, 12:37 PM   #18
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stephen426: So, not trying to say that I have never made mistakes, but as JohnSka notes, you are asking for discussion. To me there are sort of two salient points:

1. You are not alone in the car - that means that when you undertake risky behavior, you are exposing your girlfriend (in this case) to danger - she is effectively hostage to your actions, and may suffer any potential consequences as well, or possibly even instead of you.

2. Even if you are alone, I guess the question is, what are you risking, and what can you really win by engaging in an unnecessary fight?
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Old July 3, 2005, 01:30 PM   #19
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one time

it was 1:30 at night and my mom saw to flash lights come down the hill and our 3 dogs were going nuts as you could imagine. 2 guys were looking for their dogs on our property since it was hunting season. and their dogs had treed something . so anyway me and dad( I am about 15 or 16 at the time)both had guns, I had my ruger revolver and my dad had his 22 rifle. my said was like .go back up the hill or I will shoot!. looking back on it my dad way over reacted but hey... thats country life. a cop came and settled it. we never did find out who it was because the cop with held who it was because they were local to our area.


aaahhhhhhh country life
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Old July 3, 2005, 03:27 PM   #20
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Old July 3, 2005, 03:37 PM   #21
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I Just Want To Attest To Texas Law

When I lived there five years ago a friend of mine who is a mild-mannered milk-toast type flipped off a woman in traffic. That evening two mounties showed up at the front door as his family was having dinner and presented him with a summons. I guess the only reason they didn't arrest him is because they didn't actually witness it. He wound up paying a rather large fine and I believe there was some kind of probation involved.
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Old July 3, 2005, 03:38 PM   #22
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Be ready for "The Moment of Truth"

One evening just before dusk, my wife was driving down a 2-lane road in the country on our way home. We saw a motorcycle accident - a M driver and a F passenger had taken a sharp turn too quickly and had been thrown from the motorcycle. A small gathering of people had stopped to "help" (AKA gawk at the crunched up riders who had been thrown into the woods from the accident). We slowed and passed the scene and continued on.

About a minute later, some moron in a hillbilly "monster truck" closed on us at about 70 mph, blew past us, and continued on his merry mouth breathing way; this, on a two lane twisting, winding country road. We both commented on what a "gaping anal sphincter" he was.

About another minute later, a car comes up on us from behind, flashing its brights. I thought it was a depuy sheriff chasing the monster truck. My wife pulled over to let them pass. The car then followed us, as my wife had pulled off into a trail head that dead ended after about 100 feet. The other car was behing us, and we were trapped (not good).

About the time my wife realized the car had followed us and trapped us in the trail head, she informed me, with anxiety in her voice, that the guy from the car was walking up to our Chevy Blazer and was acting very HOSTILE. I told het to roll down her window ONE INCH ONLY to see what he had to say.

I had already drawn my Glock 17 and was holding it at low ready in my position in the front passenger seat. I was becoming increasingly anxious, but at that moment, as the yelling, hostile guy approached our car, something "broke" inside me. I became dead calm, and somehow knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that no matter what happened in the next few seconds, my wife and I would be okay.

Luckily, the guy was only interested in yelling. He accused us of sideswiping us as he stood on the side of the road at the wreck. I said, "Sir, look at our passenger side mirror; is it broken or knocked out of alignment?" He looked and said "no." I said, "If we had of sideswiped you, wouldn't it be?" Calming down, he said "yes." I said, "Look at the height of the mirror - if we had of side swped you going 30 mph, the top of your skull would be gone." He said, "I'm sorry - you're right."

We talked for a few more minutes, and he concluded that the moron in the monster truck had sideswiped him. After another minute, he apologized again and got in his car and left.

At this point, after the potential danger was over, my wife about wet herself. My plan had been that if the hostile driver made any move against my wife or attempted to open her door, I was ready to jump out of my door and "present my weapon" on him. If he moved toward me, I would have put a CorBon HP in the middle of his forehead.

To this day, he has no clue how lucky he was. And my wife has learned to NEVER pull over into a dead-end stopping point.

I have since reconsidered my choice of carry armament and now carry ONLY a 1911 45ACP or a H&K USP45, stoked with .45ACP Federal Hydra-Shok +P HP's or CorBon HPs.
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Old July 3, 2005, 03:50 PM   #23
longspurr
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Stephan426

I’m sorry if my suggestions are not appropriate for who you are NOW.

As I read your post again this morning I do see the _happened a long time ago – part of the original post. I also see later posts

I was almost wishing I had an integrated laser such as Laser Max and point my gun to him. Bigger car has the right of way unless there is superior fire power involved. If that idiot was using his car as a deadly weapon and actually tried to run me off the road, I feel that I would have been justified if I needed to shoot.

I could have stopped completely but I was afraid the idiot would stop as well. I don't want to get out of the car and fight this idiot.

The problem is there are so many people out there just looking for trouble. Problem is they sometimes find it.


What you described in the first post may have been - long ago- but it seems to be very fresh in your thinking. There have been several different threads that people describe bad-stupid-unfortunate things to share with others, but the WAY that they posted the events makes it clear they know they are B-S-U.

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Old July 3, 2005, 08:57 PM   #24
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Quote:
"As I read your post again this morning I do see the _happened a long time ago – part of the original post. I also see later posts"
Stephan went back and edited his original post and added the "long time ago" disclaimer. His original post made it sound like he was an active yahoo, out in public armed, about to blow you or your family away for cutting him and his turbocharged station wagon off in traffic. He got responses appropriate to the post. He came back and said the responses weren't fair, changed his posts, and added that this aberrant behavior was years ago and he was beyond it.....now. The advice he was originally given would still be appropriate to currently practicing yahoos, in Florida or elsewhere. It's good that Stephan is better.....now.

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Old July 3, 2005, 09:25 PM   #25
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This looks like fun I'll play

Here's my first and most recent I have 2 more.
This has already been posted on another forum for the same reasons as stephen has posted his here

My wife and I were walking home from her work, it's a 2 1/2 mile walk one way so I use that to exercise my dog.
There's a section of the way that is a long dark semi deserted road bordered on one side by woods. We are usually harassed along the way by the local jerks.
I've learned to look out of the back of my head so that I can see when the occasional car comes by. That way I don't jump when they scream out whatever they do. Usually something about my wife. If they are too aggressive I'll watch until they are out of sight.

One night a group of kids drove by and gave the obligatory scream to make us jump one of them standing up through the sun roof yelled "I'm gonna f**k that Asian ass". Apparently we did not give them the necessary response, so after driving about 100 yards they U-turned and came back at us.
When they did I stopped and my wife handed me the cell, which was all but useless to me, because one hand was holding the dog leash and getting it's arm pull out of socket and the other was at my hip.

When the car stopped 2 young men jumped out, one stood by the car and one ran towards us.
At this point the dog, who had been straining to go into the woods after a opossum or something, noticed either the running or the open car door and thought he was going for a ride.
As the dog turned his attention towards the group the guy stopped coming towards us and spun around and ran back to the car.

At what point would you have drawn, let the dog go, or shot?

There is one minor but key detail to the story that I left out< I'll fill it in later
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